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Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
28. "I think Tsipras knows this proposal is DOA...". That would explain a lot.
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 03:50 AM
Jul 2015

I watched his response at the EU Parliament emergency meeting, to a blistering speech by the Belgian rep, in which Tsipras denied having a secret plan to leave the euro (or leave the EU). (England still has the pound but belongs to the EU, so Greece could, theoretically, restore the drachma but remain in the EU in other respects--at least I think that's possible--maybe not politically possible, though.) Tsipras gave his word of honor that he had no such secret plan. (He'd been accused of it that day I guess. The Belgian rep didn't accuse him of that, but was blistering about Greece's failure, in his view, to produce a detailed reform proposal. But apparently others had made the accusation.)

It was hard to get a sense of Tsipras because they had to use a translator (and furthermore a woman with a weak and hesitant voice). But I was zoning in on him, to try to get a sense of this man who had apparently defied all the powers of Europe, with his "no" vote huge victory. What I felt, watching and trying to listen to him, was a great uncertainty, as if there were two or three different Tsipras's. His attention seemed a bit scattered. He did not seem very strong in defense of Greece or the Greek people or his government. At first I thought he was gloating--he'd won that vote and this changed the game. Then I thought, no, it's not that--what is it? Is it that he looks not only exhausted but also...afraid? abashed? like a scolded boy? I did not sense strength of character--resolution, firmness--nor any kind of FDR-like confidence (in facing the Great Depression).

Anyway, if what you say is right--that he knows his proposal is DOA, and DID and does have a secret plan to exit the euro and/or the EU, that would explain, a) why Greece's proposal contains the very things that Greek people voted against (he did not see having to implement it), and b) why he seemed so...unclear? irresolute?...at the emergency EU parliament session. He was making a gamble--a very big gamble--and was, indeed, being two-faced about it--as you say, kicking the ball to Germany to turn it down.

I picked up somewhere that the "powers" had, or may, offer a debt forgiveness (20%?) in exchange for the tax and pension reforms that are in Tsipras' proposal. That might be enough of a benefit to Greece to warrant those concessions. But I haven't heard much about that since.

I don't know why the "troika" ("the powers"--the EU bank, Germany and who/what is the third? the IMF?) would turn down this proposal. It seems to give them what they wanted. You're saying that German and other voters are sick of the costs of belonging to a union (--something we're used to, here, i.e., California and New York forever bailing out Mississippi, Alabama, etc.). It seems to me, though, that Merkel, for instance, would be placing quite a lot of weight on a potential political fallout, as opposed to what a Greek exit would mean to the EU. Greece is a strategic territory, and also Merkel has been very committed to holding the EU together.

Well, we're all just guessing, at this point. But I was struck by your remark because of what I'd heard at the EU parliament from Tsipras (no secret plan, upon his honor) and what I sensed about the man (that he was tired, nervous and a gambler).

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

so sad ananda Jul 2015 #1
I agree. nt GliderGuider Jul 2015 #3
The Greek government has the clear backing of the population and the legislature. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #4
Greece blinked, they accepted more austerity to remain in the Eurozone. n/t PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #8
The Greeks have accepted some concessions, as the creditors will accept concessions. Call it whatever Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #9
The majority of the Greek people supported what has gone on to create this mess. PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #11
Greece tried to play a bad hand. Adrahil Jul 2015 #30
I guess there's only one Iceland n/t Hydra Jul 2015 #2
Iceland is not part of the EU. former9thward Jul 2015 #5
Iceland has it's own currency. 132 Krona to the dollar, 148 to the Euro. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #10
The Greeks could have and should have gone back to theirs Hydra Jul 2015 #15
To me, it seems like you have no idea what that would mean for the Greeks nt Adrahil Jul 2015 #31
Iceland agrees with you cstanleytech Jul 2015 #24
And once again- ruffburr Jul 2015 #6
Well, keep in mind... Adrahil Jul 2015 #32
"Tsipras admitted many proposals fell short of his party's anti-austerity promises." PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #7
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2015 #12
Higher taxes, pension cuts in new proposal Baclava Jul 2015 #13
damn... NRaleighLiberal Jul 2015 #14
Mr. Bean and the Minister of Awesome fucked Greece. geek tragedy Jul 2015 #16
There wil be a few that want to hang him like Mussolini, but the majority will just blame Germany Baclava Jul 2015 #35
So how long until Greece misses a payment? NobodyHere Jul 2015 #17
Well one thing is they have to meet certain budget surplus targets in order to get additional funds. PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #20
What if they don't meet the surplus targets? NobodyHere Jul 2015 #25
Then they go through this whole process again? n/t PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #26
I don't know what to think bucolic_frolic Jul 2015 #18
A true leader tells the people where they have to go. They need to exit the Euro PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #22
Thanks bucolic_frolic Jul 2015 #29
Tsirpas changed his tune for a reason Adrahil Jul 2015 #33
If they do, they need strict wage and price controls as well, otherwise... FrodosPet Jul 2015 #39
...and the proposal will be rejected by the Eurogroup. roamer65 Jul 2015 #19
That would be the ultimate insult to Greece - they humiliate them by making them agree PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #21
They will do what is best for the rich daleo Jul 2015 #23
Thats not best for the rich thats the best greece because gives them the time to get on their feet cstanleytech Jul 2015 #27
Whatever causes the least disruption in the short run is best for the rich daleo Jul 2015 #37
" I foresee major disruption to the current system of global capitalism." cstanleytech Jul 2015 #38
"I think Tsipras knows this proposal is DOA...". That would explain a lot. Peace Patriot Jul 2015 #28
Oops: Greek proposal is only a 'basis' for bailout negotiation... PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #34
That's a positive sign--means they consider it geek tragedy Jul 2015 #36
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