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In reply to the discussion: Vladimir Putin says there was nothing wrong with Soviet Union's pact with Adolf Hitler's Nazi German [View all]muriel_volestrangler
(105,007 posts)80. No, Stalin used the pact with Hitler to take Bessarabia and occupy the Baltic states
This part here is a complete misunderstanding of what Stalin did before 1941: " Stalin did NOT attack his Eastern European neighbors, but only occupied them as part of the war Stalin committed to defeat Hitler AFTER Hitler had attacked Russia." Here's the reality:
The occupation of the Baltic states refers to the military occupation of the three Baltic statesEstonia, Latvia and Lithuaniaby the Soviet Union under the auspices of the MolotovRibbentrop Pact on 14 June 1940[1][2] followed by their incorporation into the USSR as constituent republics, unrecognised internationally by most countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_states
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_states
The Soviet occupation of Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina was the military occupation of the formerly Romanian regions of Bessarabia, Northern Bukovina, and Hertza by the Soviet Red Army during June 28 July 4, 1940. These regions, with a total area of 50,762 km2 (19,599 sq mi) and a population of 3,776,309 inhabitants, were subsequently incorporated into the USSR.[1][2]
The Soviet Union had planned to accomplish the annexation with a full-scale invasion, but the Romanian government, responding to a Soviet ultimatum delivered on June 26, agreed to withdraw from the territories in order to avoid a military conflict. Germany, which had acknowledged the Soviet interest in Bessarabia in a secret protocol to the 1939 Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, had been made aware prior to the planned ultimatum on June 24, but had not informed the Romanian authorities, nor were they willing to provide support.[3] The fall of France, a guarantor of Romania's borders, on 22 June, is considered an important factor in the Soviet decision to issue the ultimatum.[4]
On August 2, 1940, the Moldavian Soviet Socialist Republic was proclaimed as a constituent republic of the Soviet Union, encompassing most of Bessarabia, as well as a portion of the Moldavian Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, an autonomous republic of the Ukrainian SSR located on the left bank of the Dniester (nowadays, the breakaway Transnistrian state). The Hertza region, and the regions inhabited by Slavic majorities (Northern Bukovina, Northern and Southern Bessarabia) were included in the Ukrainian SSR. The Soviet administration was marked by a series of campaigns of political persecution, including arrests, deportations to labour camps, and executions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_occupation_of_Bessarabia_and_Northern_Bukovina
The Soviet Union had planned to accomplish the annexation with a full-scale invasion, but the Romanian government, responding to a Soviet ultimatum delivered on June 26, agreed to withdraw from the territories in order to avoid a military conflict. Germany, which had acknowledged the Soviet interest in Bessarabia in a secret protocol to the 1939 Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, had been made aware prior to the planned ultimatum on June 24, but had not informed the Romanian authorities, nor were they willing to provide support.[3] The fall of France, a guarantor of Romania's borders, on 22 June, is considered an important factor in the Soviet decision to issue the ultimatum.[4]
On August 2, 1940, the Moldavian Soviet Socialist Republic was proclaimed as a constituent republic of the Soviet Union, encompassing most of Bessarabia, as well as a portion of the Moldavian Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, an autonomous republic of the Ukrainian SSR located on the left bank of the Dniester (nowadays, the breakaway Transnistrian state). The Hertza region, and the regions inhabited by Slavic majorities (Northern Bukovina, Northern and Southern Bessarabia) were included in the Ukrainian SSR. The Soviet administration was marked by a series of campaigns of political persecution, including arrests, deportations to labour camps, and executions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_occupation_of_Bessarabia_and_Northern_Bukovina
And Stalin continued to work closely with Hitler - trade to get Germany the materials that Britain's naval blockade stopped it importing by sea:
The 1940 German-Soviet Commercial Agreement (also known as Economic Agreement of February 11, 1940, Between the German Reich and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) was an economic arrangement between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany signed on February 11, 1940 by which the Soviet Union agreed in period from February 11, 1940 to February 11, 1941, in addition to the deliveries under GermanSoviet Commercial Agreement, signed on August 19, 1939 deliver the commodities (oil, raw materials and grain) to the value of 420 to 430 million Reichsmarks. In the period February 11, 1941, to August 11, 1941, there shall be delivered to Germany, likewise in addition to the deliveries provided for in the Credit Agreement of August 19, 1939, commodities to the value of 220 to 230 million Reichsmarks. In payment for the Soviet deliveries, Germany shall supply an own products (war materiel; machinery and technologies; raw materials).
Secret amendment to the Agreement suggest a parties negotiations in regards to the purchase by the Soviet Union of metals and other goods in third countries and to the sale of these metals and goods to Germany. Later also was negotiated a policy of the transit through Soviet territory a third countries commodities purchased by Germany.
The countries followed up the agreement and resolved other issues with the January 10, 1941 GermanSoviet Border and Commercial Agreement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Commercial_Agreement_%281940%29
Secret amendment to the Agreement suggest a parties negotiations in regards to the purchase by the Soviet Union of metals and other goods in third countries and to the sale of these metals and goods to Germany. Later also was negotiated a policy of the transit through Soviet territory a third countries commodities purchased by Germany.
The countries followed up the agreement and resolved other issues with the January 10, 1941 GermanSoviet Border and Commercial Agreement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Commercial_Agreement_%281940%29
They even considered the Soviet Union joining the Axis Pact:
In October and November 1940, GermanSoviet Axis talks occurred concerning the Soviet Union's potential entry as a fourth Axis Power. The negotiations included a two-day Berlin conference between Soviet Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Molotov, Adolf Hitler and German Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop, followed by both countries trading written proposed agreements. Germany never responded to a November 25, 1940, Soviet proposal, leaving the negotiations unresolved
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Axis_talks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Axis_talks
You think the 1939 pact is 'defendable'. Remember, the secret protocol proposed dividing up Poland between the USSR and Nazi Germany. It pointed out the USSR's desires for Bessarabia, and to have the Baltic states and Finland under its control. It shows Stalin has long term plans to annex independent countries to the USSR, and to do it in concert with Germany taking most of Poland, and he started doing it, maintaining friendly relations and trade with Germany, until Hitler turned on him.
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Vladimir Putin says there was nothing wrong with Soviet Union's pact with Adolf Hitler's Nazi German [View all]
uhnope
Nov 2014
OP
DU Putinistas arriving to defend Comrade Major Putin in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1... n/t
ColesCountyDem
Nov 2014
#3
Is he actively trying to drive eastern Europe more fully into NATO's sphere of influence?
LanternWaste
Nov 2014
#5
The replies on this thread just show the lack of knowledge of history is vast here
newthinking
Nov 2014
#11
It's almost as if they think that had the USSR not inked the non-aggression pact, Hitler
KingCharlemagne
Nov 2014
#14
It also allowed Stalin the time to build a huge army and many thousands of tanks...
bvar22
Nov 2014
#41
The pact had a secret protocol dividing Poland and other countries
muriel_volestrangler
Nov 2014
#23
ironically, one of the things McCarthyites went after people for was opposing Hitler TOO SOON
yurbud
Nov 2014
#17
the only solution to this terrible admission is to make Russia a super-sized Somalia
yurbud
Nov 2014
#18
There are some problems with your thread, but it is more accurate the the rest of this thread
happyslug
Nov 2014
#58
No, Stalin used the pact with Hitler to take Bessarabia and occupy the Baltic states
muriel_volestrangler
Nov 2014
#80
There's a world of difference between "too good to pass up, because it allows land grabs"
muriel_volestrangler
Nov 2014
#94
Thank you. I laud your efforts at correcting me and doing it so civilly.
watrwefitinfor
Nov 2014
#82
No, he would have gangs of thugs beat down those cookies in brutal fashion, and then claim he
MADem
Nov 2014
#50
some real fascists ----- Ukraine’s 'Right Sector' Leader Recognized as Elected Member of Parliament
NordicLeft
Nov 2014
#54
So,the BBC, The New Republic, Foreign Policy, Counterpunch, Salon, Intl. Business Times are Russian?
NordicLeft
Nov 2014
#62
This is his publicity video - seriously... it really was made by and for him as head
newthinking
Nov 2014
#63
Fascism is on the march across the EU, and its certainly not springing from Putin
NordicLeft
Nov 2014
#65
Tom Parfitt (the author of the Telegraph OP) is a well-known rightwing pro NATO/US/UK hack
NordicLeft
Nov 2014
#70
People here have not yet figured out that the Republicans have been working on world domination for
newthinking
Nov 2014
#69
No, that's not what I was saying; I was replying to your incorrect claim that EU fascism and Putin
muriel_volestrangler
Nov 2014
#104
Well, I'm glad to see the US has run out of problems so we can refight the Cold War.
Starry Messenger
Nov 2014
#35
Does that mean you're not going to comment on DU about anything outside the US
muriel_volestrangler
Nov 2014
#42
If you think a government has the right/duty to pursue its national interest to the exclusion
pampango
Nov 2014
#91
That's why we gave so many Nazis jobs and citizenship, and the fascism is present in US.
bobthedrummer
Nov 2014
#97
If Western historians have really been trying to "hush up" the Munich Agreement,
Nye Bevan
Nov 2014
#107
not often you get to hear the Molotov Ribbentop pact spoken of so glowingly. nt
arely staircase
Nov 2014
#109