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newthinking

(3,982 posts)
23. Are you saying it was not a catastrophe?
Sun Feb 1, 2015, 04:01 PM
Feb 2015

Last edited Sun Feb 1, 2015, 04:45 PM - Edit history (1)

I agree we should be discussing these things. "Exposing" what is not right. But "exposing" while distorting and in the midst of a general propaganda war is not conducive to anything that benefits us or them.

I think we lack historical understanding and empathy of what occurred there. The breakup was a good thing, but the way it happened was indeed catastrophic. It was not that long ago so of course it is in the Russian mind and discourse.

There was a genocide of the elderly that occurred in the transition (Russians know this) that will eventually be recognized by history. There would have been many more millions lost if not for the legacy the Soviet Union left where most everyone owned a home.

Because Russians talk of the period as a catastrophe does not equivocate with wanting to militarily regain the borders. But it does explain the Russian protectiveness of ethnic Russian populations affected by the breakup. That is something that needs to be worked on, but it also needs to be recognized as a legitimate concern.

I know this is hard for an American to understand, due to all the years of the cold war propaganda, but Russians are one of the more discriminated against peoples of the world. Similar to people from the middle east, media has distorted them incredibly and routinely. But we now recognize that and actually sometimes even move against media that portrays middle easterners too negatively. But we have not even begun to recognize the same for Russians as it is so deeply placed.

The more one studies the region and history and when one travels to the region (I have been to both Russia and Ukraine and have studied and discussed these things with them for many years) the more the scales fall off and the distortions in media become apparent. And those distortions (and neocons, who are essentially a hate group) are moving us to confrontation.

Unfortunately, Russian aggression is not an entirely new thing. Turbineguy Jan 2015 #1
Yep it is an old saw salib Jan 2015 #12
The neocons screwed up Obama's foreign policy goals CJCRANE Jan 2015 #2
They work from "behind the scenes" now but remain very powerful newthinking Jan 2015 #3
Putin foiled the neo-con plans for Syria. polly7 Jan 2015 #4
That's exactly right newfie11 Jan 2015 #6
Invading Crimea and fomenting civil war in Ukraine are not aggression? hack89 Jan 2015 #7
Crimea wasn't invaded. polly7 Jan 2015 #8
Right. Got it. nt hack89 Jan 2015 #10
Careful... MattSh Jan 2015 #15
Good point. They dodged a bullet. polly7 Jan 2015 #16
too bad staying part of Ukraine was not a choice Duckhunter935 Feb 2015 #29
Actually it was, but to understand the choices you have to know the history of post soviet Crimea newthinking Feb 2015 #37
no the staus quo was not an option Duckhunter935 Feb 2015 #38
And there are still dishonest "reports" of "military on the streets" "enforcing order" newthinking Feb 2015 #21
tell that to the Crimean Tartars Duckhunter935 Feb 2015 #27
Oh yes, you mean those fundamentalists who were in contact with Al-qaida? newthinking Feb 2015 #31
do not forget prices are also much higher Duckhunter935 Feb 2015 #28
Depends on what they buy. TVs from China, not really. From Europe, yes newthinking Feb 2015 #30
This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Feb 2015 #32
Yeh, OK Duckhunter935 Feb 2015 #26
Do you even read the replies before you post? newthinking Feb 2015 #33
I replied to Polly, not you Duckhunter935 Feb 2015 #34
my bad. I followed the line down incorrectly newthinking Feb 2015 #35
we all make mistakes Duckhunter935 Feb 2015 #36
You mean like Prague, Chechenya, Afghanistan? Those meme filled Russian peace initiatives???? marble falls Jan 2015 #5
What part did Putin play in any of that? JayhawkSD Jan 2015 #11
Facts don't matter when you need someone to blame. nt. polly7 Jan 2015 #14
Try telling that to an Estonian LiberalEsto Jan 2015 #9
Sad, I used to come to DU to find information on current events that was not available anywhere 1monster Jan 2015 #13
no one is an angel. That's what makes propaganda so easy. But when it comes to aggression, yurbud Jan 2015 #17
Blame that on the rise of the tabloid/political media newthinking Feb 2015 #20
I'm perfectly willing to hear equal use of the phrase "American agression" cheapdate Jan 2015 #18
Putin never talked of reclaiming regions. That has been propaganda newthinking Feb 2015 #19
It's not propaganda to talk about Putin's conception of "Russian" cheapdate Feb 2015 #22
Are you saying it was not a catastrophe? newthinking Feb 2015 #23
It is entirely possible to construct a pro-Russian narrative cheapdate Feb 2015 #24
Ukraine says the same thing - That all Slavs originated from their culture newthinking Feb 2015 #25
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