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longship

(40,416 posts)
5. What?????
Sat Jun 9, 2012, 01:59 PM
Jun 2012

There are awesome petroleum reserves on Earth. The thermodynamics of petrol go back millions of years when the origins of coal and oil was first laid down.

Molecular Hydrogen, on the other hand, is not a natural resource on Earth. There is no natural repository of hydrogen on this planet. All hydrogen gas escapes because our measly planet doesn't have enough mass to hold it. Sorry, buddy, that's just the physics of the situation.

This means that hydrogen must come from other sources. The major source is hydrolysis of water, which thermodynamically takes more energy than is released in burning the hydrogen. (There's that pesky physics and thermodynamics again.)

To sum up, whereas oil and coal were laid down millions of years ago and remained for that time for us to use to generate energy, all the molecular hydrogen escapes our planet so we have to generate it from other sources which takes more energy than is released by burning it.

Therefore, hydrogen is not an energy source, but an energy storage method (but a very good one).

QED.

Recommendations

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Electric motors can provide 100% torque just about instantaneously LARED Jun 2012 #1
Race cars have been the R&D platform for a number of automobile technologies. OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #2
Unfortunately hydrogen is not an energy source. longship Jun 2012 #3
Petroleum products are also not an energy source. They merely store energy in the form of chemical kestrel91316 Jun 2012 #4
What????? longship Jun 2012 #5
And how (exactly) is this relevant? OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #6
Thank you. You just made my point. longship Jun 2012 #8
And the point that I made was…? OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #9
Hydrogen is fucking NOT a source of energy!!! longship Jun 2012 #12
I believe everyone knows that OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #13
Okay, OKIsItJustMe. longship Jun 2012 #14
“I confess that my teaching life more than occasionally kicks in here on DU.” OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #15
Water, Sunlight intaglio Jun 2012 #7
Well, you've made my point. longship Jun 2012 #10
I don't believe anyone here thinks that Hydrogen is an energy source. OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #11
There is not a natural source of gasoline intaglio Jun 2012 #19
It is thermodynamics 101 longship Jun 2012 #20
And if the energy is free, what happens to your calculations? intaglio Jun 2012 #21
I don't give a shit about efficiency of oil longship Jun 2012 #22
So what is your alternative? intaglio Jun 2012 #23
Well, I think we're on the same page longship Jun 2012 #24
What is the specific problem you want storage to solve? kristopher Jun 2012 #26
Hydrogen, as an energy carrier, is far more efficient than petroleum and H2 Cars will kick ass and.. NYC_SKP Jun 2012 #16
I like it to even out the day/night solar power cycle longship Jun 2012 #17
H2 peaker plants at every wind farm... NYC_SKP Jun 2012 #18
Would you propose putting peaking plants next to baseload plants? kristopher Jun 2012 #25
I'm in an ag area, and my reply was quite a generalization. NYC_SKP Jun 2012 #27
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Hydrogen fuel cells begin...»Reply #5