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kristopher

(29,798 posts)
25. Would you propose putting peaking plants next to baseload plants?
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 08:23 PM
Jun 2012

Why would you want to co-locate the wind farm with the H2?

Looking at storage as a totally separate issue brings far more clarity to the problem it is meant to solve. When we conflate the role of storage with the role of variable resources, we are falling into the trap of working with a mental model based on large scale centralized thermal generation. We don't need to duplicate the properties of those plants to push penetration of variable resources; in fact, such a model incorrectly limits our intuitive sense of what variable resources are capable of doing. It also inflates the perceived direct cost of variable energy sources.

For example, think of the combination of generating sources necessary to fill the load profile of a centralized thermal system and then ask yourself if you associate
a) the cost of peaking power + the price of baseload coal/nuclear in the same way you are associating
b) the cost of flexible generation + the price of variable resources?

I know there could be some savings associated with less transmission, but that needs to be balanced with end user needs. Developing storage solutions that incorporate end user needs and resources are likely to be the most often used strategy for deploying storage technologies.

H2/fuel cells have a role but it really isn't a very efficient storage process for most applications.

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Electric motors can provide 100% torque just about instantaneously LARED Jun 2012 #1
Race cars have been the R&D platform for a number of automobile technologies. OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #2
Unfortunately hydrogen is not an energy source. longship Jun 2012 #3
Petroleum products are also not an energy source. They merely store energy in the form of chemical kestrel91316 Jun 2012 #4
What????? longship Jun 2012 #5
And how (exactly) is this relevant? OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #6
Thank you. You just made my point. longship Jun 2012 #8
And the point that I made was…? OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #9
Hydrogen is fucking NOT a source of energy!!! longship Jun 2012 #12
I believe everyone knows that OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #13
Okay, OKIsItJustMe. longship Jun 2012 #14
“I confess that my teaching life more than occasionally kicks in here on DU.” OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #15
Water, Sunlight intaglio Jun 2012 #7
Well, you've made my point. longship Jun 2012 #10
I don't believe anyone here thinks that Hydrogen is an energy source. OKIsItJustMe Jun 2012 #11
There is not a natural source of gasoline intaglio Jun 2012 #19
It is thermodynamics 101 longship Jun 2012 #20
And if the energy is free, what happens to your calculations? intaglio Jun 2012 #21
I don't give a shit about efficiency of oil longship Jun 2012 #22
So what is your alternative? intaglio Jun 2012 #23
Well, I think we're on the same page longship Jun 2012 #24
What is the specific problem you want storage to solve? kristopher Jun 2012 #26
Hydrogen, as an energy carrier, is far more efficient than petroleum and H2 Cars will kick ass and.. NYC_SKP Jun 2012 #16
I like it to even out the day/night solar power cycle longship Jun 2012 #17
H2 peaker plants at every wind farm... NYC_SKP Jun 2012 #18
Would you propose putting peaking plants next to baseload plants? kristopher Jun 2012 #25
I'm in an ag area, and my reply was quite a generalization. NYC_SKP Jun 2012 #27
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Hydrogen fuel cells begin...»Reply #25