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Israel/Palestine

In reply to the discussion: The apartheid myth [View all]

FarrenH

(768 posts)
44. Accusing others of blood libel or other anti-semitic tropes
Thu Feb 4, 2016, 08:51 AM
Feb 2016

Every time they criticize a state actor, based on common humanitarian and egalitarian values, for oppressing a people who they are denying self-determination to, is not only lying, but aiding and abetting anti-semites.

When you repeatedly call human-rights activists and commentators antisemites for advocating the advancement of fundamental human rights, you encourage people to take such accusations less seriously or dismiss them entirely, like the boy who cried wolf. You're advancing real antisemitism by encouraging people to ignore it when it happens.

I don't have an antisemitic bone in my body. I know that for a fact. Quite the reverse. In my mental list of historical figures I admire the most, Jews are overrepresented in proportion to their numbers. I grew up a judeophile, if anything.

I grew up under South African Apartheid and know how you can disavow racism but still have subconscious racism persist in your thinking, because you were inured to it growing up. I consciously disavowed Apartheid and racism at the tender age of 13, but still spent decades working subtle and subconscious racism against black people out of my system, because its often hard to recognize in yourself until some situation makes it come to the surface.

I mention this because I know that when confronted with people who disavow antisemitism but criticize Israel, a common reaction I've seen (even from Jewish friends of mine who know me well but are unconditionally supportive of Israel) is to assume and insinuate that even if its not conscious, antisemitism somehow underlies those views.

But I have spent a lifetime purging myself of unconscious bigotry. I would know if there was some fundamental distrust, fear or hatred of Jews that informed my thinking. And I know for a fact that there isn't. There is none. Zero. Zip. Nada. Not even a trace. I was raised Catholic, but by liberal Catholics that admired Jews. I never heard a single anti-semitic trope growing up. Rather my family had a habit of talking about all the virtues of Jewish culture and talking about Jews admiringly. When my aunt married into Judaism and converted that was seen as a great catch by her siblings and my grandmother. I simply wasn't exposed to any form of antisemitism at all growing up and entered adulthood with nothing but admiration for Jewish culture generally. Which only increased when I made close Jewish friends, worked for and with Jews and dated Jewish women in young adulthood.

In short, I know, 100% for a fact, that my views on Israel being an Apartheid state are in no way shaped by a general animosity to, fear of, or distrust of Jews qua Jews. They are entirely shaped by my experience of and antipathy towards Apartheid and recognition of de facto Apartheid when I see it elsewhere.

So when people like you accuse people like me of having an secret antisemitic agenda intended to provoke hatred and violence against Jews because they're Jews, I naturally think "Fuck you, you lying sack of shit. That is a LIE".

Maybe it's a lie you believe. Maybe you've been so inured to a catch-all narrative of victimhood that ascribes even sincere humanitarian and egalitarian concerns to bigotry as a way of rationalizing a situation in which the perpetrators happen to be Jewish and the victims not, but even then its self-deception. Its a lie.

And like the boy who cried wolf, the constant deployment of that lie is ultimately self-defeating. I've seen how similarly motivated left-wing friends sometimes end up dismissing legitimate complaints of anti-semitism out of hand because of suspicion that they're being deployed in a dishonest fashion to rationalize Israel's failings, mainly because they've become accustomed to seeing a barrage of such accusations every time they tender criticism of Israel. That's what you're doing. You're aiding and abetting antisemites

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The apartheid myth [View all] shira Feb 2016 OP
Questions: DetlefK Feb 2016 #1
All Israeli citizens are treated the same.... shira Feb 2016 #10
LOL.......... Israeli Feb 2016 #20
More Regressive Left trash. Sorry, not buying. No different than Totalitarian Fascist Right.... shira Feb 2016 #22
Chuckles ....... Israeli Feb 2016 #27
Your sources, dear...sources. Always Regressive Left. Not buying. n/t shira Feb 2016 #30
" Your sources, dear...sources." Always racist religious fascist right . Not buying. n/t Israeli Feb 2016 #39
LOL. The Regressive Left supports the religious fascist totalitarian Right. shira Feb 2016 #41
So voting for Meretz as you previously stated ..... Israeli Feb 2016 #42
We're talking sources - I don't waste time with 972, Mondoweiss, etc. shira Feb 2016 #46
Up to you shira .... Israeli Feb 2016 #48
I was not asking about israeli citizens. I was asking about Palestinians under israeli rule. DetlefK Feb 2016 #36
You demand Rights for Palestinians? Then why do you reject Israeli offers.... shira Feb 2016 #37
Please don't deflect. This is about the present situation, not the future. DetlefK Feb 2016 #38
Offers for their their own state were 15 years ago. I can't help but shake my head.... shira Feb 2016 #40
As silly as saying Iraq never invaded Kuwait Android3.14 Feb 2016 #2
There's no comparison b/w Israel & S.Africa. That's why Mandela never called Israel Apartheid..... shira Feb 2016 #11
The biggest challenge with racism is that racists rarely see they are racists Android3.14 Feb 2016 #12
I agree WRT anti-Israel racists. n/t shira Feb 2016 #14
And so the world goes. Android3.14 Feb 2016 #16
B'Tselem: Land Grab: Israel's Settlement Policy in the West Bank, May 2002 Little Tich Feb 2016 #3
Not even HRW and Amnesty call Israel Apartheid & they're in no way pro-Israel. shira Feb 2016 #7
AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL REPORT 2014/15: THE STATE OF THE WORLD’S HUMAN RIGHTS Little Tich Feb 2016 #15
There's not a word in the Amnesty report about Apartheid. You proved my point. shira Feb 2016 #17
Human Rights Watch: Separate and Unequal: Israel’s Discriminatory Treatment of Palestinians in the Little Tich Feb 2016 #19
Again, proving my point. HRW doesn't mention Apartheid. shira Feb 2016 #21
Thanks, interesting report TubbersUK Feb 2016 #31
South Africa: The Apartheid Myth FarrenH Feb 2016 #4
The Oslo Accords in the 1990's setup the situation you claim is Apartheid... shira Feb 2016 #8
I believe that 24 years ago when Oslo was signed it was supposed last 5 years ending in a viable azurnoir Feb 2016 #23
Yes, so now the world & the Palestinians agreed to 5 years of Apartheid @ Oslo. shira Feb 2016 #24
The system wasn't quite as entrenched then as it is now lot's of water under that bridge azurnoir Feb 2016 #26
So "Apartheid" is International Law. Everyone signed on to it. Own it. n/t shira Feb 2016 #29
I think you're confused Oslo isn't "International Law" azurnoir Feb 2016 #32
It's legally binding, dear. Internationally recognized. n/t shira Feb 2016 #34
no if it was legally binding both parties would have been found in violation azurnoir Feb 2016 #43
The Oslo accords FarrenH Feb 2016 #25
So all Oslo signees including the UN, EU, US, UK, & Palestinians signed onto Apartheid. Nice. shira Feb 2016 #28
Shira's logic, in a nutshell: FarrenH Feb 2016 #33
Ridiculous comparison. Israel has offered the Palestinians Rights that you demand.... shira Feb 2016 #35
Accusing Israel of apartheid is like accusing Planned Parenthood of selling baby parts. Fozzledick Feb 2016 #5
You nailed it. Winner! n/t shira Feb 2016 #6
This! grossproffit Feb 2016 #9
Exactly! n/t aranthus Feb 2016 #13
Accusing others of blood libel or other anti-semitic tropes FarrenH Feb 2016 #44
Wow, looks like I really hit a nerve - truth can do that to someone who's in deep denial. Fozzledick Feb 2016 #45
The nerve you hit FarrenH Feb 2016 #47
Prove yourself. I want to see you denounce lying shitbags who call Israel Apartheid.... shira Feb 2016 #49
FarrenH....take a tip ... Israeli Feb 2016 #50
You can't answer either, I get it. Israel is called Apartheid WITHIN the '67 lines.... shira Feb 2016 #52
Seriously shira .... Israeli Feb 2016 #53
I never saw anyone call anyone a self hating Jew King_David Feb 2016 #56
Correct- again King_David Feb 2016 #55
Exactly right King_David Feb 2016 #54
Apartheid by consent............. Israeli Feb 2016 #18
I support Israel. The claims of "apartheid" are slanderous. NaturalHigh Feb 2016 #51
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