Israel/Palestine

pelsar

(12,283 posts)

117. and of course you want to be consistent....

Reply to azurnoir (Reply #105)

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 01:36 AM

Aug 2013

Last edited Tue Aug 27, 2013, 02:17 AM - Edit history (1)

all countries have immigration laws that are discriminatory...can we now call all countries "apartheid" countries?

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Israel, the un-apartheid state – a comparison with Australia [View all] shira Aug 2013 OP

w e s t b a n k ChairmanAgnostic Aug 2013 #1

BDS would continue its actions against Israel even if it left the West Bank completely oberliner Aug 2013 #2

Which is not Israel, so not apartheid. n/t aranthus Aug 2013 #5

The indigenous bastustans of Apartheid South Africa were independent homelands FarrenH Aug 2013 #7

That's Oslo, which the world supported. Not apartheid. shira Aug 2013 #10

So Shaktimaan Sep 2013 #168

Nope FarrenH Sep 2013 #169

L E B A N O N shira Aug 2013 #12

yes there is shira ... Israeli Aug 2013 #22

Am I to understand that before "Israeli-Only" roads, before the separation barrier..... shira Aug 2013 #23

I have no idea where you are going with this shira ... Israeli Aug 2013 #25

"or call Shulamit Aloni a liar..." oberliner Aug 2013 #26

thanks for the advice.... Israeli Aug 2013 #63

You obviously don't know much about President Carter's views oberliner Aug 2013 #120

so before Intifada 2, no apartheid. After Intifada 2, apartheid. Yes? shira Aug 2013 #36

It has everything to do with who you support shira ... Israeli Aug 2013 #64

2010: Abbas rejects 60% of W.Bank shira Aug 2013 #68

I oppose the occupation shira ..... Israeli Aug 2013 #71

You can't oppose the occupation & also oppose getting out of 60% of the W.Bank. shira Aug 2013 #72

sure I can shira .... Israeli Aug 2013 #73

60% borders are temporary. You're pro-occupation, against the IDF getting out..... shira Aug 2013 #74

No shira ... Israeli Aug 2013 #75

Ironic how you agree with hardcore settlers against Bibi's plan.... shira Aug 2013 #76

I'm Gush Shalom shira ... Israeli Aug 2013 #77

They oppose Bibi's plan to withdraw from the W.Bank just like you. n/t shira Aug 2013 #80

you are deflecting shira .... Israeli Aug 2013 #95

Not Apartheid. What part of "military occupation" don't you understand? shira Aug 2013 #121

seriously shira ... Israeli Aug 2013 #129

Its like the West Bank doesn't exist FarrenH Aug 2013 #3

The BDS, apartheid-week peeps claim it's within Israel.... shira Aug 2013 #9

Again? Scootaloo Aug 2013 #4

actually its the demonization factor... pelsar Aug 2013 #6

You won't find Apartheid there FarrenH Aug 2013 #8

Will we find anti-Palestinian apartheid in Lebanon? Can I see where you've.... shira Aug 2013 #11

Refer to my post just a few notches upthread n/t Scootaloo Aug 2013 #13

see below #14. I responded to the wrong post. n/t shira Aug 2013 #15

Wasn't asking you.... shira Aug 2013 #14

money is not part of the definition of apartheid... pelsar Aug 2013 #17

I didn't say money was part of the definition FarrenH Aug 2013 #18

what happened to the dictionary definition? pelsar Aug 2013 #20

"The dictionary definition" FarrenH Aug 2013 #27

and i'm just asking for the consistency... pelsar Aug 2013 #29

I've been trying to summarize it FarrenH Aug 2013 #46

so i read it....it claims the Palestinians are a race.... pelsar Aug 2013 #50

On the contrary FarrenH Aug 2013 #56

so now your claiming "force sterilization? pelsar Aug 2013 #57

The comparison requires a shallow understanding of both Israel and Apartheid WatermelonRat Aug 2013 #16

The comparison refers specifically to Palestinians in the West Bank shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #19

which is why we see apartheid in the US.... pelsar Aug 2013 #21

That is based on citizenship, not race WatermelonRat Aug 2013 #24

Its not fallacious because it is because of ethnicity FarrenH Aug 2013 #28

so according to you pelsar Aug 2013 #30

Plus according to him a Jewish state is per se apartheid. aranthus Aug 2013 #31

what a creative interpretation azurnoir Aug 2013 #33

Yours is the creative interpretation. aranthus Aug 2013 #34

Is this true or not? Does Israel wish to maintain a Jewish demographic majority? azurnoir Aug 2013 #38

The disagreement is not over whether it's true and you know it. aranthus Aug 2013 #40

Is it true or not, why dou hesitate to answer directly ? azurnoir Aug 2013 #43

What hesitation? aranthus Aug 2013 #44

are you accusing me and the other poster of antisemitism? n/t azurnoir Aug 2013 #45

I've accused you of diverting. aranthus Aug 2013 #82

That was my point however you seemed 'upset' with another poster pointing it out azurnoir Aug 2013 #84

I'm not upset with someone pointing it out. aranthus Aug 2013 #87

quote "It's like someone pointing out that France wants to maintain a French majority" azurnoir Aug 2013 #106

I'd like an answer to the question in post #87 first. aranthus Aug 2013 #107

I can not answer without knowing your parameters pertaining to who is French n/t azurnoir Aug 2013 #108

I don't see why. aranthus Aug 2013 #109

No both the nationality and citizenship are Israeli azurnoir Aug 2013 #110

You're wrong, and you don't have the right to decide. aranthus Aug 2013 #112

so the majority ethnic group in any given country gets to decide what rights azurnoir Aug 2013 #113

That is not what I said. aranthus Aug 2013 #114

you got your answer but you did not agree with it azurnoir Aug 2013 #115

BS. You're evading the question. aranthus Aug 2013 #122

you got your answer here azurnoir Aug 2013 #123

No, I got your pathetic excuse for evading the question. aranthus Aug 2013 #126

ah I was right the first time you don't like the answer which was plainly No azurnoir Aug 2013 #127

Not that I didn't like it. I didn't understand that you meant no. aranthus Aug 2013 #130

th problem is that the area where these different laws are being enforced is not Israel azurnoir Aug 2013 #32

its still not based on ethnicity pelsar Aug 2013 #35

here is Merriam-Websters defination of apartheid azurnoir Aug 2013 #37

So it's doubly not apartheid. aranthus Aug 2013 #41

I always find the contortions of denial amusing azurnoir Aug 2013 #42

why is it racial? pelsar Aug 2013 #48

lol you make it sound very pretty and nice except azurnoir Aug 2013 #83

so your redefining apartheid to include applications that dont get "fair treatment" pelsar Aug 2013 #90

I do not have to redefine anything, there is no need azurnoir Aug 2013 #94

The International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid FarrenH Aug 2013 #47

the summary:.....you dont like the dictionary- but at least its clear. pelsar Aug 2013 #51

I think you're imputing intentions without any reasonable cause FarrenH Aug 2013 #53

Your intentions are clear..... pelsar Aug 2013 #55

My intention FarrenH Aug 2013 #58

I"m not doubting your intentions.... pelsar Aug 2013 #61

The thing is Pelsar FarrenH Aug 2013 #62

you've made it clear.... pelsar Aug 2013 #65

The histories of the two countries don't exactly parallel each other FarrenH Aug 2013 #66

explain gaza please.... pelsar Aug 2013 #70

that is incorrect shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #39

now put in the missing information..... pelsar Aug 2013 #49

Well, lets retrace our steps... shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #52

oops..i'll let you admit your 'mistake" and let it go at that pelsar Aug 2013 #54

You realise that this is unusual? shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #59

its military law...which has little to do with justice.... pelsar Aug 2013 #60

You admit that the military courts are reserved for Palestinians? shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #67

its an occupation.....that means the military runs the place pelsar Aug 2013 #69

name a single foreigner shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #78

Israel arrests foreign activist in West Bank raid: lawyer oberliner Aug 2013 #79

Please read the above posts... shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #85

enough already.....just simply admit you were wrong..is it an ego thing? pelsar Aug 2013 #81

you still can't find a non-Palestinian that has been sentenced by a military court? shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #86

Interesting switch from "dealt with" to "sentenced by" oberliner Aug 2013 #88

Can you find any of either? shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #91

what happend to: A foreigner in Israel is not subject to military law. pelsar Aug 2013 #89

Are you saying that foreigners in Israel are subject to martial law? shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #92

we'll make this simple...its not difficult pelsar Aug 2013 #93

thank you for admitting that non-Jewish Arab citizens of Israel are subject to different laws azurnoir Aug 2013 #96

you read it wrong... i dont make up the laws.... pelsar Aug 2013 #99

it is quite true that non-Jewish citizens of Israel are subject to different laws than azurnoir Aug 2013 #103

actually its the jews, muslims, christians,druze....that have different laws pelsar Aug 2013 #104

No pelsar the immigration laws alone are all that is needed to show discrimination azurnoir Aug 2013 #105

and of course you want to be consistent.... pelsar Aug 2013 #117

"mixed set of security provisions" shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #97

its my assumption.... pelsar Aug 2013 #100

Imagine the following scenario... shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #101

its unlikely....that it would be regular soldiers pelsar Aug 2013 #102

Not quite shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #111

so your 've redefined apartheid as discrimination based "citizenship and nationalism" pelsar Aug 2013 #116

Au contraire... shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #118

so two legals systems do not make for apartheid? pelsar Aug 2013 #119

The principle of territoriality... shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #124

Israeli settlers are not exclusively Jewish shira Aug 2013 #125

The OP proves Australia is WAY more racist than Israel.... shira Aug 2013 #128

your wrong...now what/ pelsar Sep 2013 #170

South African Apartheid didn't apply equally to all Blacks... shaayecanaan Sep 2013 #172

i understand your point... pelsar Sep 2013 #173

There is discrimination... shaayecanaan Sep 2013 #180

now i get it....you can predict the future pelsar Sep 2013 #185

Two sets of laws for two sets of people... shaayecanaan Sep 2013 #187

yet you cant define that second set of people pelsar Sep 2013 #191

Hmm... shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #98

Thus two sets of rules. R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #131

let them scream .... Israeli Aug 2013 #132

The thing is, Israeli, I just don't understand how supposed Democrats or Liberals, R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #133

I dont understand either .... Israeli Aug 2013 #134

I can give you a brief primer on American politics regarding Israel. R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #135

Well... shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #136

If you think Turkey and Pakistan are more important to America..... shira Aug 2013 #137

Well, you responded to my message... shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #142

lets hope so ... Israeli Aug 2013 #139

You should reread shaayecanaan's post balow #136 King_David Sep 2013 #171

You need to understand you're a minority within the LibDem party here.... shira Aug 2013 #138

And once again, the human punchline does her tapdance. R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #140

Well, you said you didn't understand. Now you do. You're welcome. n/t shira Aug 2013 #141

Not what I wrote. R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #143

Most Dems and Liberals disagree with you. They must not be "real" Libs/Dems...... shira Aug 2013 #144

Hi there shira .... Israeli Aug 2013 #145

She's not an anti-zionist. But that wasn't my point.... shira Aug 2013 #150

wasnt my point either shira .... Israeli Aug 2013 #159

Aloni is a politician. All politicians lie. Why do u worship a politician's every word? shira Aug 2013 #160

Aloni is not a politician shira .... Israeli Aug 2013 #161

So she doesn't lie...but she exaggerates instead? With Jew-only roads.... shira Aug 2013 #164

I asked you .... Israeli Aug 2013 #166

The answer is no...no apartheid in the W.Bank shira Sep 2013 #179

ahh shira ... Israeli Sep 2013 #182

How dishonest can you get? So Israeli Arabs within settlements all around Jerusalem..... shira Sep 2013 #184

Gotta say, I like Letty and respect her greatly for this.... shira Aug 2013 #165

you have quoted out of context shira ..... Israeli Aug 2013 #167

I wrote that I like Letty but disagree with her.... shira Sep 2013 #177

What facile dishonesty... shaayecanaan Sep 2013 #174

ah shaayecanaan..... Israeli Sep 2013 #175

ahhh Israeli.....the thing is Letty is also an American Zionist. shira Sep 2013 #178

Not at all. What I quoted is what I like about her.... shira Sep 2013 #176

Yeah, sure. A bit like movie reviews... shaayecanaan Sep 2013 #181

Well then, read what I wrote about that passage.... shira Sep 2013 #183

Fuck off again... shaayecanaan Sep 2013 #186

At least we agree on supporting Western intervention in Syria... shira Sep 2013 #188

another unfounded accusation? "And you did back Hezbollah until recently." azurnoir Sep 2013 #189

Bullshit shaayecanaan Sep 2013 #190

And yet another Israel=Nazis comparison. Only Israel = Nazis, of course. shira Sep 2013 #192

Well, Ive put my money and time on the line... shaayecanaan Sep 2013 #193

Wow. You didn't even watch this did you? R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #146

WHOOOOSH! That was the sound of Finkelstein's argument going totally over your head.... shira Aug 2013 #147

Did you miss the first five minutes of the interview? R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #148

Did you miss that you're not at all representative of most Libs/Dems on I/P? n/t shira Aug 2013 #149

So you did miss the first five minutes then...or ignored them outright. Pure Shira BS. R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #151

Well, now that you want to make this about Finkelstein....are you closer in opinion shira Aug 2013 #152

It again is about you and your hypocrisy, Shira. Again, major derp on your part. R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #153

Another evasion with nothing but smilies in response. Lemme know when you grow up. n/t shira Aug 2013 #154

I'm not the hypocrite, Shira. You are. R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #155

That might be half a logical argument. Where's the other half? n/t shira Aug 2013 #156

Goodbye, hypocrite. R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #157

Hmm. Another sound-byte, more smilies. Got anything else? shira Aug 2013 #158

I won't be able to communicate with you since you aren't trusted to be honest. R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #162

I don't think you're capable of conversing honestly about I/P..... shira Aug 2013 #163

Good lord. Shaktimaan Oct 2013 #194