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Israel/Palestine
In reply to the discussion: Israel, the un-apartheid state – a comparison with Australia [View all]shira
(30,109 posts)165. Gotta say, I like Letty and respect her greatly for this....
Last edited Fri Aug 30, 2013, 04:40 PM - Edit history (1)
On both fronts, Im still struggling to reconcile my feminism and my Zionism.
Wearing my Zionist hat, I deplore those feminists whose knee-jerk affinity with the oppressed leads them to deny Israels right to exist, to excuse Palestinian terrorists, or, without parsing the consequences, to disavow the two-state solution in favor of a secular bi-national state.
I lose patience with feminists who fiercely condemn Israels treatment of Palestinians but fall silent when it comes to the treatment of women in Arab countries; who critique Jewish fundamentalism but are so hobbled by cultural relativism or the fear of being seen as Islamophobic, that they hesitate to condemn Muslim gender apartheid, honor killings, female genital mutilation, child marriages or the stoning of women.
I cringe when a Zionist responds to feminist critiques of Israel by calling the critic a "self hating Jew." The fact is, the Zionist dream has not delivered for women.
Ive faulted women on the left for their deafening silence when Israeli doctors were barred from a breast cancer conference in Cairo; for supporting boycotts of Israeli artists and academics, many of whom are feminists and peace activists; and for endorsing every brand of feminist identity politicsblack, Asian, Latina, Arab, lesbian, disabled, environmentalist, PETAexcept the one that labels itself Jewish and Zionist.
Then, donning my feminist hat, I shudder when any American Jew makes common cause with politicians because of their strong support of Israel and despite their flaccid or nonexistent support of womens issues. It especially rankles when the liberal wing of Zionism fails to shine a spotlight on the anti-women behavior of pro-Israel Americans, and I dont just mean Conservative Republicans and Evangelical Christians.
I cringe when a Zionist responds to feminist critiques of Israel by calling the critic a "self hating Jew." The fact is, the Zionist dream has not delivered for women.
Wearing my Zionist hat, I deplore those feminists whose knee-jerk affinity with the oppressed leads them to deny Israels right to exist, to excuse Palestinian terrorists, or, without parsing the consequences, to disavow the two-state solution in favor of a secular bi-national state.
I lose patience with feminists who fiercely condemn Israels treatment of Palestinians but fall silent when it comes to the treatment of women in Arab countries; who critique Jewish fundamentalism but are so hobbled by cultural relativism or the fear of being seen as Islamophobic, that they hesitate to condemn Muslim gender apartheid, honor killings, female genital mutilation, child marriages or the stoning of women.
I cringe when a Zionist responds to feminist critiques of Israel by calling the critic a "self hating Jew." The fact is, the Zionist dream has not delivered for women.
Ive faulted women on the left for their deafening silence when Israeli doctors were barred from a breast cancer conference in Cairo; for supporting boycotts of Israeli artists and academics, many of whom are feminists and peace activists; and for endorsing every brand of feminist identity politicsblack, Asian, Latina, Arab, lesbian, disabled, environmentalist, PETAexcept the one that labels itself Jewish and Zionist.
Then, donning my feminist hat, I shudder when any American Jew makes common cause with politicians because of their strong support of Israel and despite their flaccid or nonexistent support of womens issues. It especially rankles when the liberal wing of Zionism fails to shine a spotlight on the anti-women behavior of pro-Israel Americans, and I dont just mean Conservative Republicans and Evangelical Christians.
I cringe when a Zionist responds to feminist critiques of Israel by calling the critic a "self hating Jew." The fact is, the Zionist dream has not delivered for women.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/15/zionism-meet-feminism.html
Okay, I love her. Thank you for introducing me....
So we both love Letty?
==========
As to her article on apartheid, I disagree with her POV. But I liked this part...
As a life-long, Israel-loving, peace-seeking Zionist, I disdained the hyperbolic label and the facile, incendiary parallels to pre-Mandela South Africa that, for years, have been propagated by Jimmy Carter and some pundits on the left. Ive made at least two dozen trips to Israel since 1976 and, though strongly critical of its governments policies toward Palestinians within and outside the Green Line whether under Labor, Likud or Kadima leadership I never felt that extreme indictment was warranted by the facts on the ground.
Read more: http://forward.com/articles/136418/the-a-word-in-hebron/#ixzz2dUG8V8GY
Read more: http://forward.com/articles/136418/the-a-word-in-hebron/#ixzz2dUG8V8GY
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BDS would continue its actions against Israel even if it left the West Bank completely
oberliner
Aug 2013
#2
Am I to understand that before "Israeli-Only" roads, before the separation barrier.....
shira
Aug 2013
#23
60% borders are temporary. You're pro-occupation, against the IDF getting out.....
shira
Aug 2013
#74
The comparison requires a shallow understanding of both Israel and Apartheid
WatermelonRat
Aug 2013
#16
Is this true or not? Does Israel wish to maintain a Jewish demographic majority?
azurnoir
Aug 2013
#38
That was my point however you seemed 'upset' with another poster pointing it out
azurnoir
Aug 2013
#84
quote "It's like someone pointing out that France wants to maintain a French majority"
azurnoir
Aug 2013
#106
I can not answer without knowing your parameters pertaining to who is French n/t
azurnoir
Aug 2013
#108
th problem is that the area where these different laws are being enforced is not Israel
azurnoir
Aug 2013
#32
so your redefining apartheid to include applications that dont get "fair treatment"
pelsar
Aug 2013
#90
The International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid
FarrenH
Aug 2013
#47
you still can't find a non-Palestinian that has been sentenced by a military court?
shaayecanaan
Aug 2013
#86
thank you for admitting that non-Jewish Arab citizens of Israel are subject to different laws
azurnoir
Aug 2013
#96
it is quite true that non-Jewish citizens of Israel are subject to different laws than
azurnoir
Aug 2013
#103
No pelsar the immigration laws alone are all that is needed to show discrimination
azurnoir
Aug 2013
#105
so your 've redefined apartheid as discrimination based "citizenship and nationalism"
pelsar
Aug 2013
#116
The thing is, Israeli, I just don't understand how supposed Democrats or Liberals,
R. Daneel Olivaw
Aug 2013
#133
Most Dems and Liberals disagree with you. They must not be "real" Libs/Dems......
shira
Aug 2013
#144
Aloni is a politician. All politicians lie. Why do u worship a politician's every word?
shira
Aug 2013
#160
How dishonest can you get? So Israeli Arabs within settlements all around Jerusalem.....
shira
Sep 2013
#184
WHOOOOSH! That was the sound of Finkelstein's argument going totally over your head....
shira
Aug 2013
#147
Did you miss that you're not at all representative of most Libs/Dems on I/P? n/t
shira
Aug 2013
#149
So you did miss the first five minutes then...or ignored them outright. Pure Shira BS.
R. Daneel Olivaw
Aug 2013
#151
Well, now that you want to make this about Finkelstein....are you closer in opinion
shira
Aug 2013
#152
It again is about you and your hypocrisy, Shira. Again, major derp on your part.
R. Daneel Olivaw
Aug 2013
#153
Another evasion with nothing but smilies in response. Lemme know when you grow up. n/t
shira
Aug 2013
#154
I won't be able to communicate with you since you aren't trusted to be honest.
R. Daneel Olivaw
Aug 2013
#162