Israel/Palestine

pelsar

(12,283 posts)

191. yet you cant define that second set of people

Thu Sep 5, 2013, 01:12 AM

Sep 2013

Last edited Thu Sep 5, 2013, 02:21 AM - Edit history (4)

i do believe you clarified your belief that there simply has to be apartheid because zionism is racist..yet you seem to be having a problem actually defining the characteristics of this apartheid.

so lets try again:
please give me a clear definition of these two sets of people

how exactly are they differentiated?...this is what i asked in the very beginning and have yet to get a clear definition.

i see it as citizenship.....if your claiming its not citizenship, then what is it?

what is the difference between Palestinian arabs vs the non israeli jews that also live across the green line (arab muslims, arab christians, etc) that relate to these two sets of laws...
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and just for fun...lets pretend you can't tell the future

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Highlight:

Israel, the un-apartheid state – a comparison with Australia [View all] shira Aug 2013 OP

w e s t b a n k ChairmanAgnostic Aug 2013 #1

BDS would continue its actions against Israel even if it left the West Bank completely oberliner Aug 2013 #2

Which is not Israel, so not apartheid. n/t aranthus Aug 2013 #5

The indigenous bastustans of Apartheid South Africa were independent homelands FarrenH Aug 2013 #7

That's Oslo, which the world supported. Not apartheid. shira Aug 2013 #10

So Shaktimaan Sep 2013 #168

Nope FarrenH Sep 2013 #169

L E B A N O N shira Aug 2013 #12

yes there is shira ... Israeli Aug 2013 #22

Am I to understand that before "Israeli-Only" roads, before the separation barrier..... shira Aug 2013 #23

I have no idea where you are going with this shira ... Israeli Aug 2013 #25

"or call Shulamit Aloni a liar..." oberliner Aug 2013 #26

thanks for the advice.... Israeli Aug 2013 #63

You obviously don't know much about President Carter's views oberliner Aug 2013 #120

so before Intifada 2, no apartheid. After Intifada 2, apartheid. Yes? shira Aug 2013 #36

It has everything to do with who you support shira ... Israeli Aug 2013 #64

2010: Abbas rejects 60% of W.Bank shira Aug 2013 #68

I oppose the occupation shira ..... Israeli Aug 2013 #71

You can't oppose the occupation & also oppose getting out of 60% of the W.Bank. shira Aug 2013 #72

sure I can shira .... Israeli Aug 2013 #73

60% borders are temporary. You're pro-occupation, against the IDF getting out..... shira Aug 2013 #74

No shira ... Israeli Aug 2013 #75

Ironic how you agree with hardcore settlers against Bibi's plan.... shira Aug 2013 #76

I'm Gush Shalom shira ... Israeli Aug 2013 #77

They oppose Bibi's plan to withdraw from the W.Bank just like you. n/t shira Aug 2013 #80

you are deflecting shira .... Israeli Aug 2013 #95

Not Apartheid. What part of "military occupation" don't you understand? shira Aug 2013 #121

seriously shira ... Israeli Aug 2013 #129

Its like the West Bank doesn't exist FarrenH Aug 2013 #3

The BDS, apartheid-week peeps claim it's within Israel.... shira Aug 2013 #9

Again? Scootaloo Aug 2013 #4

actually its the demonization factor... pelsar Aug 2013 #6

You won't find Apartheid there FarrenH Aug 2013 #8

Will we find anti-Palestinian apartheid in Lebanon? Can I see where you've.... shira Aug 2013 #11

Refer to my post just a few notches upthread n/t Scootaloo Aug 2013 #13

see below #14. I responded to the wrong post. n/t shira Aug 2013 #15

Wasn't asking you.... shira Aug 2013 #14

money is not part of the definition of apartheid... pelsar Aug 2013 #17

I didn't say money was part of the definition FarrenH Aug 2013 #18

what happened to the dictionary definition? pelsar Aug 2013 #20

"The dictionary definition" FarrenH Aug 2013 #27

and i'm just asking for the consistency... pelsar Aug 2013 #29

I've been trying to summarize it FarrenH Aug 2013 #46

so i read it....it claims the Palestinians are a race.... pelsar Aug 2013 #50

On the contrary FarrenH Aug 2013 #56

so now your claiming "force sterilization? pelsar Aug 2013 #57

The comparison requires a shallow understanding of both Israel and Apartheid WatermelonRat Aug 2013 #16

The comparison refers specifically to Palestinians in the West Bank shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #19

which is why we see apartheid in the US.... pelsar Aug 2013 #21

That is based on citizenship, not race WatermelonRat Aug 2013 #24

Its not fallacious because it is because of ethnicity FarrenH Aug 2013 #28

so according to you pelsar Aug 2013 #30

Plus according to him a Jewish state is per se apartheid. aranthus Aug 2013 #31

what a creative interpretation azurnoir Aug 2013 #33

Yours is the creative interpretation. aranthus Aug 2013 #34

Is this true or not? Does Israel wish to maintain a Jewish demographic majority? azurnoir Aug 2013 #38

The disagreement is not over whether it's true and you know it. aranthus Aug 2013 #40

Is it true or not, why dou hesitate to answer directly ? azurnoir Aug 2013 #43

What hesitation? aranthus Aug 2013 #44

are you accusing me and the other poster of antisemitism? n/t azurnoir Aug 2013 #45

I've accused you of diverting. aranthus Aug 2013 #82

That was my point however you seemed 'upset' with another poster pointing it out azurnoir Aug 2013 #84

I'm not upset with someone pointing it out. aranthus Aug 2013 #87

quote "It's like someone pointing out that France wants to maintain a French majority" azurnoir Aug 2013 #106

I'd like an answer to the question in post #87 first. aranthus Aug 2013 #107

I can not answer without knowing your parameters pertaining to who is French n/t azurnoir Aug 2013 #108

I don't see why. aranthus Aug 2013 #109

No both the nationality and citizenship are Israeli azurnoir Aug 2013 #110

You're wrong, and you don't have the right to decide. aranthus Aug 2013 #112

so the majority ethnic group in any given country gets to decide what rights azurnoir Aug 2013 #113

That is not what I said. aranthus Aug 2013 #114

you got your answer but you did not agree with it azurnoir Aug 2013 #115

BS. You're evading the question. aranthus Aug 2013 #122

you got your answer here azurnoir Aug 2013 #123

No, I got your pathetic excuse for evading the question. aranthus Aug 2013 #126

ah I was right the first time you don't like the answer which was plainly No azurnoir Aug 2013 #127

Not that I didn't like it. I didn't understand that you meant no. aranthus Aug 2013 #130

th problem is that the area where these different laws are being enforced is not Israel azurnoir Aug 2013 #32

its still not based on ethnicity pelsar Aug 2013 #35

here is Merriam-Websters defination of apartheid azurnoir Aug 2013 #37

So it's doubly not apartheid. aranthus Aug 2013 #41

I always find the contortions of denial amusing azurnoir Aug 2013 #42

why is it racial? pelsar Aug 2013 #48

lol you make it sound very pretty and nice except azurnoir Aug 2013 #83

so your redefining apartheid to include applications that dont get "fair treatment" pelsar Aug 2013 #90

I do not have to redefine anything, there is no need azurnoir Aug 2013 #94

The International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid FarrenH Aug 2013 #47

the summary:.....you dont like the dictionary- but at least its clear. pelsar Aug 2013 #51

I think you're imputing intentions without any reasonable cause FarrenH Aug 2013 #53

Your intentions are clear..... pelsar Aug 2013 #55

My intention FarrenH Aug 2013 #58

I"m not doubting your intentions.... pelsar Aug 2013 #61

The thing is Pelsar FarrenH Aug 2013 #62

you've made it clear.... pelsar Aug 2013 #65

The histories of the two countries don't exactly parallel each other FarrenH Aug 2013 #66

explain gaza please.... pelsar Aug 2013 #70

that is incorrect shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #39

now put in the missing information..... pelsar Aug 2013 #49

Well, lets retrace our steps... shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #52

oops..i'll let you admit your 'mistake" and let it go at that pelsar Aug 2013 #54

You realise that this is unusual? shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #59

its military law...which has little to do with justice.... pelsar Aug 2013 #60

You admit that the military courts are reserved for Palestinians? shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #67

its an occupation.....that means the military runs the place pelsar Aug 2013 #69

name a single foreigner shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #78

Israel arrests foreign activist in West Bank raid: lawyer oberliner Aug 2013 #79

Please read the above posts... shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #85

enough already.....just simply admit you were wrong..is it an ego thing? pelsar Aug 2013 #81

you still can't find a non-Palestinian that has been sentenced by a military court? shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #86

Interesting switch from "dealt with" to "sentenced by" oberliner Aug 2013 #88

Can you find any of either? shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #91

what happend to: A foreigner in Israel is not subject to military law. pelsar Aug 2013 #89

Are you saying that foreigners in Israel are subject to martial law? shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #92

we'll make this simple...its not difficult pelsar Aug 2013 #93

thank you for admitting that non-Jewish Arab citizens of Israel are subject to different laws azurnoir Aug 2013 #96

you read it wrong... i dont make up the laws.... pelsar Aug 2013 #99

it is quite true that non-Jewish citizens of Israel are subject to different laws than azurnoir Aug 2013 #103

actually its the jews, muslims, christians,druze....that have different laws pelsar Aug 2013 #104

No pelsar the immigration laws alone are all that is needed to show discrimination azurnoir Aug 2013 #105

and of course you want to be consistent.... pelsar Aug 2013 #117

"mixed set of security provisions" shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #97

its my assumption.... pelsar Aug 2013 #100

Imagine the following scenario... shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #101

its unlikely....that it would be regular soldiers pelsar Aug 2013 #102

Not quite shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #111

so your 've redefined apartheid as discrimination based "citizenship and nationalism" pelsar Aug 2013 #116

Au contraire... shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #118

so two legals systems do not make for apartheid? pelsar Aug 2013 #119

The principle of territoriality... shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #124

Israeli settlers are not exclusively Jewish shira Aug 2013 #125

The OP proves Australia is WAY more racist than Israel.... shira Aug 2013 #128

your wrong...now what/ pelsar Sep 2013 #170

South African Apartheid didn't apply equally to all Blacks... shaayecanaan Sep 2013 #172

i understand your point... pelsar Sep 2013 #173

There is discrimination... shaayecanaan Sep 2013 #180

now i get it....you can predict the future pelsar Sep 2013 #185

Two sets of laws for two sets of people... shaayecanaan Sep 2013 #187

yet you cant define that second set of people pelsar Sep 2013 #191

Hmm... shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #98

Thus two sets of rules. R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #131

let them scream .... Israeli Aug 2013 #132

The thing is, Israeli, I just don't understand how supposed Democrats or Liberals, R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #133

I dont understand either .... Israeli Aug 2013 #134

I can give you a brief primer on American politics regarding Israel. R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #135

Well... shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #136

If you think Turkey and Pakistan are more important to America..... shira Aug 2013 #137

Well, you responded to my message... shaayecanaan Aug 2013 #142

lets hope so ... Israeli Aug 2013 #139

You should reread shaayecanaan's post balow #136 King_David Sep 2013 #171

You need to understand you're a minority within the LibDem party here.... shira Aug 2013 #138

And once again, the human punchline does her tapdance. R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #140

Well, you said you didn't understand. Now you do. You're welcome. n/t shira Aug 2013 #141

Not what I wrote. R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #143

Most Dems and Liberals disagree with you. They must not be "real" Libs/Dems...... shira Aug 2013 #144

Hi there shira .... Israeli Aug 2013 #145

She's not an anti-zionist. But that wasn't my point.... shira Aug 2013 #150

wasnt my point either shira .... Israeli Aug 2013 #159

Aloni is a politician. All politicians lie. Why do u worship a politician's every word? shira Aug 2013 #160

Aloni is not a politician shira .... Israeli Aug 2013 #161

So she doesn't lie...but she exaggerates instead? With Jew-only roads.... shira Aug 2013 #164

I asked you .... Israeli Aug 2013 #166

The answer is no...no apartheid in the W.Bank shira Sep 2013 #179

ahh shira ... Israeli Sep 2013 #182

How dishonest can you get? So Israeli Arabs within settlements all around Jerusalem..... shira Sep 2013 #184

Gotta say, I like Letty and respect her greatly for this.... shira Aug 2013 #165

you have quoted out of context shira ..... Israeli Aug 2013 #167

I wrote that I like Letty but disagree with her.... shira Sep 2013 #177

What facile dishonesty... shaayecanaan Sep 2013 #174

ah shaayecanaan..... Israeli Sep 2013 #175

ahhh Israeli.....the thing is Letty is also an American Zionist. shira Sep 2013 #178

Not at all. What I quoted is what I like about her.... shira Sep 2013 #176

Yeah, sure. A bit like movie reviews... shaayecanaan Sep 2013 #181

Well then, read what I wrote about that passage.... shira Sep 2013 #183

Fuck off again... shaayecanaan Sep 2013 #186

At least we agree on supporting Western intervention in Syria... shira Sep 2013 #188

another unfounded accusation? "And you did back Hezbollah until recently." azurnoir Sep 2013 #189

Bullshit shaayecanaan Sep 2013 #190

And yet another Israel=Nazis comparison. Only Israel = Nazis, of course. shira Sep 2013 #192

Well, Ive put my money and time on the line... shaayecanaan Sep 2013 #193

Wow. You didn't even watch this did you? R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #146

WHOOOOSH! That was the sound of Finkelstein's argument going totally over your head.... shira Aug 2013 #147

Did you miss the first five minutes of the interview? R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #148

Did you miss that you're not at all representative of most Libs/Dems on I/P? n/t shira Aug 2013 #149

So you did miss the first five minutes then...or ignored them outright. Pure Shira BS. R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #151

Well, now that you want to make this about Finkelstein....are you closer in opinion shira Aug 2013 #152

It again is about you and your hypocrisy, Shira. Again, major derp on your part. R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #153

Another evasion with nothing but smilies in response. Lemme know when you grow up. n/t shira Aug 2013 #154

I'm not the hypocrite, Shira. You are. R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #155

That might be half a logical argument. Where's the other half? n/t shira Aug 2013 #156

Goodbye, hypocrite. R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #157

Hmm. Another sound-byte, more smilies. Got anything else? shira Aug 2013 #158

I won't be able to communicate with you since you aren't trusted to be honest. R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2013 #162

I don't think you're capable of conversing honestly about I/P..... shira Aug 2013 #163

Good lord. Shaktimaan Oct 2013 #194