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Gun Control & RKBA

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sarisataka

(19,218 posts)
Thu Jul 26, 2012, 12:58 AM Jul 2012

What is reasonable gun control... [View all]

Nobody even really gets around to a straight answer; at least not any that allows for much debate. I have had way too much time on my hands the last few days so I submit this for debate/argument/flame

Conflict of interest disclaimer- I own and carry a firearm daily, wherever legal. I am required to be an NRA member for business reasons but give no support beyond basic membership.



It will be assumed prohibited persons will be similar as is today

The NFA of 1934 and GCA of 1968 will be repealed. In their place will be the following restrictions:

1) The following may be purchased with an instant background check. No record of sale shall be required
A. Revolvers holding no more than 6 rounds
B. Non-semiautomatic rifles with a fixed magazine
C. Non semiautomatic shotguns with fixed magazines of no more than 8 rounds
D. Semiautomatic rifles with fixed magazine holding no more than 5 rounds
E. Semiautomatic shotguns with fixed magazines holding no more than 5 rounds
F. Any pistol or rifle of caliber .22LR or less, regardless of capacity
G. A onetime fee of $20 shall be charged at the time of purchase to be used as in 9) below

2) The following may be purchased with an instant background check and permanent file with local law enforcement to be updated at any transfer of the gun
A. Semiautomatic pistols
B. Semiautomatic rifles with fixed magazines of greater than 5 round capacity
C. Semiautomatic rifles with removable magazines
D. Magazine capacity will be capped at 30 rounds.
E. Owners of previously made magazines may turn them in, receiving a number of 30 round magazines equivalent to the capacity of the surrendered magazine, round up to the nearest number.
F. Non semiautomatic and semiautomatic shotguns of capacities greater than listed above
G. Shotguns with removable magazines
H. A onetime fee of $50 shall be charged at the time of purchase to be used as in 9) below

3) The following may be purchased with a 30 day background check and permanent file with ATF to be updated at any transfer of the gun through local law enforcement. Renewal of registration shall be made every 5 years through local law enforcement
A. Pistols capable of full automatic fire
B. Rifles capable of any burst or full auto firing
C. Rifles that are converted for bump firing
D. Pistols capable of generating muzzle energy greater than 200ft/lbs
E. Rifles or other long arm capable of generating muzzle energy of greater than 5000 ft/lbs
F. A fee of $50 shall be charged at the time registration, renewal or transfer, to be used as in 9) below

4) Open carry of firearms shall be permitted with government issued ID and completion of 16 hour course of training on justifiable use of force and shooting skill. Law enforcement may inspect ID with reasonable suspicion of unlawful activity or during a traffic stop. Openly carrying a gun is not grounds for suspicion of unlawful activity.

5) Concealed carry of a firearm shall be permitted with government issued ID, concealed carry permit and completion of 16 hour course of training on justifiable use of force and shooting skill. Training must be renewed every ten years. Law enforcement may inspect ID with reasonable suspicion of unlawful activity or during a traffic stop. A onetime fee of $100 shall be charged at the initial permit application to be used as in 9) below

6) Ammunition purchased in person will require a government issued ID and instant approval check

7) Ammunition
A. Ammunition purchased online must include purchasers government issued ID number to instant approval check
B. Online purchases of greater than 1000 rounds will be delivered to customer designated law enforcement where they shall be picked up in person upon confirmation of ID
C. A fee of $.01 shall be charge on each cartridge at purchase to be used as in 9) below

8) Opt-out
A. Businesses who do not choose to opt-out of allowing open or concealed carry shall be immune to civil liability suits
B. Businesses open to the public who choose to opt-out of allowing legal carry of firearms are assuming responsibility for their patrons and are liable to civil suits from any injury resulting from legal or illegal gun use
C. Businesses not open to the public who choose to opt-out of allowing legal carry of firearms are assuming responsibility for their employees and are liable to civil suits from any injury resulting from legal or illegal gun use
D. Private home owners may choose to not allow firearms into their dwellings without liability
E. Landlords may not prohibit their tenants from keeping firearms in rented property unless cohabiting with the landlord and the prohibition is included in a written tenant contract
F. Churches may choose to not allow firearms into their buildings without liability
G. Schools may choose to not allow firearms into their buildings without liability
H. Areas and building designated as ‘high-security’ locations may prohibit firearms. These locations must provide on-site armed security and conduct entry checks with metal detectors and/ or physical searches
I. Cities or other municipalities may enact greater restrictions on carry of firearms as follows
1. Prohibition of open carry- the entity shall pay a yearly fee of $10 per citizen, as of the most recent census, to be used as in 9) below
2. Prohibition of concealed carry- the entity shall pay a yearly fee of $25 per citizen, as of the most recent census, to be used as in 9) below
3. Prohibition of all carry- the entity shall pay a yearly fee of $50 per citizen, as of the most recent census, to be used as in 9) below
4. Prohibition of firearm ownership- the entity shall pay a yearly fee of $1000 per citizen, as of the most recent census, to be used as in 9) below. In addition, the entity is are assuming responsibility for their citizens and visitors therefore are liable to civil suits from any injury resulting from legal or illegal gun use

9) Usage of fees
A. All fees collected through the above shall go to the Justice department
B. Monies collected shall be put into an interest bearing fund to be used, as directed by Congress, with the following priorities
1. Benefit fund to the victims of gun violence or their families
2. Violence reduction programs
3. Liability insurance for gun owners. Yearly fee may be set by Congress for participation, not to exceed the median cost of similar private insurance
4. Gun buyback and amnesty programs for those prohibited by law from owning firearms


OK let 'er rip

132 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What is reasonable gun control... [View all] sarisataka Jul 2012 OP
an absolute total ban on all guns, shotguns, rifles, ak's etc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! gopiscrap Jul 2012 #1
It's been tried Shilka-Gunluvr Jul 2012 #5
What specifically has been tried. oldsarge54 Aug 2012 #125
there are other issues that are affected thomasprescottjr Aug 2012 #132
You just love the sound of your own voice, don't you? PavePusher Jul 2012 #16
You shouldn't mock the Anti-gun-nuts like that. aikoaiko Jul 2012 #83
problem with gun control thomasprescottjr Aug 2012 #131
What I read sounds good... tortoise1956 Jul 2012 #2
Some good ideas in there. safeinOhio Jul 2012 #3
Funny, gun owners are always being accused of being unable to compromise. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #12
a good start of what? gejohnston Jul 2012 #36
The only reasonable answer is a total ban. ileus Jul 2012 #4
Just a thought... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #24
The impossible is not exactly reasonable pscot Jul 2012 #26
I agree. I gave up my guns and bought 15 cases of vienna sausages shadowrider Jul 2012 #51
Let me think about that one. jeepnstein Jul 2012 #6
Who was it... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #11
Great, now that song is stuck in my head. jeepnstein Jul 2012 #13
If you wanna get down, discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #14
Ok... sarisataka Jul 2012 #19
Maybe a bit of piano for a change... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #21
In my best Daffy Duck voice- sarisataka Jul 2012 #29
As me Irish mother would say, 'Aye and proud of it, I am.' n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #35
As my German/Irish mother would say...... Simo 1939_1940 Jul 2012 #49
Shades of Zevon! tortoise1956 Jul 2012 #86
If "Excitable Boy" is to your taste... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #88
You take sally, I'll take sue there ain't no difference between the 2 cocaine Trunk Monkey Jul 2012 #65
I have a mansion forget the price. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #67
I've seen the needle and the damage done Trunk Monkey Jul 2012 #68
Whiskey bottles and brand new cars, discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #71
Lalala not listening sarisataka Jul 2012 #72
Turn that up. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #74
I was gonna clean my room until I got high Trunk Monkey Jul 2012 #78
Any set of new laws should have a sunset provision somewhere... OneTenthofOnePercent Jul 2012 #7
our gun laws are not particularly responsible for the ever decreasing levels of violence alabama_for_obama Jul 2012 #96
This message was self-deleted by its author alabama_for_obama Jul 2012 #96
Logic? bongbong Jul 2012 #102
I agree. I still wouldn't assume that gun laws have *no* effect on current trends. OneTenthofOnePercent Jul 2012 #103
Logic Pt 2 bongbong Jul 2012 #104
Um... but crime trends ARE moving in a favorable direction. Nearing 1950's lows. OneTenthofOnePercent Jul 2012 #105
Clues bongbong Jul 2012 #107
Blood running the streets, conflating "civilized" with "gun control"... there's our beloved bongbong OneTenthofOnePercent Jul 2012 #108
Numbers bongbong Jul 2012 #112
who cares about gun violence? alabama_for_obama Jul 2012 #109
Talking Points bongbong Jul 2012 #111
Guess who is not a member of the NRA? alabama_for_obama Aug 2012 #120
: ) do it. rDigital Aug 2012 #122
They claim not to be partisan… alabama_for_obama Aug 2012 #123
You're right about rDigital Aug 2012 #124
Did you ever imagine... alabama_for_obama Aug 2012 #121
Would you then agree sarisataka Jul 2012 #115
TL, DR slackmaster Jul 2012 #8
Just a little more 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #9
What about currently owned firearms and ammo? michreject Jul 2012 #10
I had not considered reloading sarisataka Jul 2012 #20
Interesting food for thought krispos42 Jul 2012 #15
Yes that was a typo sarisataka Jul 2012 #17
Let's not forget... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #22
I do like the idea of using fees to fund programs Cary Jul 2012 #18
glassy eyed gun nut cultists going around telling everyone that they can't think about this issue gejohnston Jul 2012 #25
re: "You can say all you want, no matter how absurd or uninformed." discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #31
And also shut up the anti-gun-freaks who pose as neutral aikoaiko Jul 2012 #84
Excellent start to a great conversation! ManiacJoe Jul 2012 #23
Oops, oversight sarisataka Jul 2012 #39
for the same reason someone would want a .45-70 revolver? Or a gejohnston Jul 2012 #43
Not me sarisataka Jul 2012 #46
Are you shitting me? tortoise1956 Jul 2012 #87
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #27
That's an interesting... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #30
Please... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #32
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #37
An opinion only discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #40
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #33
Also... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #38
They probably didn't forsee Missycim Jul 2012 #82
Thank you for posting. You make the NRAs gun law positions look sane aikoaiko Jul 2012 #85
It's "obvious" only to those who claim to commune with the dead Marengo Jul 2012 #90
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #92
But not with the founders? Why not? Marengo Jul 2012 #94
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #99
Misinterpreting in what way? Marengo Aug 2012 #118
You do realize the 2 A sarisataka Jul 2012 #34
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #41
I would see the FF view differently sarisataka Jul 2012 #42
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #44
that was gejohnston Jul 2012 #45
Actually, Jenoch Jul 2012 #50
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #53
The militias were the Jenoch Aug 2012 #119
The sides were reversed sarisataka Jul 2012 #52
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #54
I'll try again sarisataka Jul 2012 #57
You are writing something that is not consistent with the law. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #76
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #91
So get the second amendment changed. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #93
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #100
You don't know anything about me. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #101
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #106
I believe in lots of rights I don't exercise. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #110
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #114
No, it isn't. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #116
1775: New York Colony Rules for Regulating the Militia oldsarge54 Aug 2012 #126
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #47
My children can defend themselves thank you. They all carry and they're all female n/t shadowrider Jul 2012 #63
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #64
Yes they should bluemntceltic Jul 2012 #117
No real problems except intent dmallind Jul 2012 #48
You cannot define reasonable restrictions without agreeing on the purpose of the second amendment Atypical Liberal Jul 2012 #55
Would not the FOID sarisataka Jul 2012 #58
A very difficult to trace registration. Atypical Liberal Jul 2012 #62
And after we jump through all these hoops, another mass murderer will legally buy his guns. Atypical Liberal Jul 2012 #56
That is unfortunately true sarisataka Jul 2012 #59
You have overly complicated things but the concepts are certainly worth discussing ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #60
A euphemism for the next increment of civil rights to be taken away - nt badtoworse Jul 2012 #61
I don't know what reasonable gun control is but i know it ain't that NT Trunk Monkey Jul 2012 #66
Where would this one fall? Clames Jul 2012 #69
Section 1b. ManiacJoe Jul 2012 #70
Damn you bubba'd that gun man NT Trunk Monkey Jul 2012 #79
If it was mine... Clames Jul 2012 #80
in theory it is a slippery slope. In practice, I think we have achieved a delicate balance. If the Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2012 #73
Just a few nitpicks. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #75
i don't understand the need for anything that is 'instant'. the requirements should be to be samsingh Jul 2012 #77
The instant check is a necessary compromise. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #95
Reasonable gun control is... using two hands. OneTenthofOnePercent Jul 2012 #81
Reasonable gun control is using two hands AND putting 6 out of 10 in the bullseye shadowrider Jul 2012 #89
How good is your Grammar? oldsarge54 Aug 2012 #127
Did you reply to the wrong post? shadowrider Aug 2012 #129
Maybe oldsarge54 Aug 2012 #130
too many rules. way too many rules. alabama_for_obama Jul 2012 #98
Nope. ErikO Jul 2012 #113
Observation oldsarge54 Aug 2012 #128
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