Religion

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)

78. In essence, but you do get into the question of what a fair criticism is and what it isn't.

Tue Mar 11, 2014, 11:16 PM

Mar 2014

As for the second part I don't know. I don't know that if you were to list a set of issue on which one might vote here at DU if the theists and anti-theists would vote all that differently. I rather suspect they would largely vote the same. I could be wrong, but I think that when it comes to supporting political positions or programs or societal changes, we are close to being on the same page.

But there's still plenty of friction and heat here.

Bryant

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Agree or Disagree - "To believe in the major religions requires bigotry" [View all] el_bryanto Mar 2014 OP

You are not required to be a bigot to believe, nor to become one. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #1

Disagree, but would agree that that statement is bigoted. cbayer Mar 2014 #2

not once you clearly study most religions. ChairmanAgnostic Mar 2014 #102

Where do you get that idea? cbayer Mar 2014 #104

It does if you follow the texts as written. trotsky Mar 2014 #3

Gosh that's a mystery - do you suppose there are parts of those books that aren't bigoted? nt el_bryanto Mar 2014 #4

Gosh read my post again and I think you'll be able to figure that out. n/t trotsky Mar 2014 #6

Nope - didn't help. I guess your understanding of holy books is just too much for me. nt el_bryanto Mar 2014 #8

Not enough for him to commit himself to a public vote. rug Mar 2014 #16

I'll have to use the textbook definition of bigotry... Wait Wut Mar 2014 #5

I disagree with your premise. cbayer Mar 2014 #9

That is one possible interpretation. trotsky Mar 2014 #10

Yes, but... Wait Wut Mar 2014 #12

I realize that my experience is anecdotal and have learned over the years that it cbayer Mar 2014 #13

Not every strong preference is bigotry. okasha Mar 2014 #14

Judaism does not seek to convert non-Jews and has specific provisions for non-Jews Gothmog Mar 2014 #17

The strict observance of the Jewish religion mandates bigotry. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #18

How? Gothmog Mar 2014 #19

Well, for example, the treatment of women. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #21

I disagree with your analysis Gothmog Mar 2014 #61

"In the reform movement, equality of women is a given" Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #69

Read the materials posted Gothmog Mar 2014 #70

Really, you find the status of the women in my wife's cousin's family amusing? Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #71

The Orthodox branch of Judaism accounts for 10% or less of the American Jewish faith Gothmog Mar 2014 #76

'Requires' - definitely not. 'Can lead to/ be used for bigotry' - yes. LeftishBrit Mar 2014 #7

it requires either acceptance of bigotry or determined ignorance about the sacred Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #11

Logically: the concept "faith" means believing without evidence. Which = bias, even bigotry Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #74

So can one have faith without being a bigot? nt el_bryanto Mar 2014 #75

And bigotry isn't necessary for atheism, either. okasha Mar 2014 #15

It is necessary for anti-theism though. nt el_bryanto Mar 2014 #20

So you claim someone has to be bigoted skepticscott Mar 2014 #22

No, he said, "It is necessary for anti-theism though." rug Mar 2014 #23

that's quite a leap. el_bryanto Mar 2014 #32

Ok, let's start by getting you on record skepticscott Mar 2014 #34

No. I don't. el_bryanto Mar 2014 #36

So are you saying that ANY criticism of religion skepticscott Mar 2014 #77

In essence, but you do get into the question of what a fair criticism is and what it isn't. el_bryanto Mar 2014 #78

Well, you're now on record skepticscott Mar 2014 #79

The title of that post - Religion Kills Yet Another Child el_bryanto Mar 2014 #80

It was a very specific manifestation of religion skepticscott Mar 2014 #82

That's not what he said el_bryanto Mar 2014 #83

He was saying that the death of that child skepticscott Mar 2014 #87

You really have to bend over back words to read the words "Religion Kills Yet Another Child" el_bryanto Mar 2014 #88

"A Very Specific Manifestation of Religion Kills Yet Another Child" was not the headline. rug Mar 2014 #86

Also for the record - of course I'm not defending a father who killed his child el_bryanto Mar 2014 #81

And yet you always seem to leap to the forefront skepticscott Mar 2014 #84

Actually there have been plenty of non-broad brush criticisms of religion I haven't commented on el_bryanto Mar 2014 #85

An attack on religion in general? EvilAL Mar 2014 #89

Congratulations! You get the prize for the goofiest post so far in this thread Starboard Tack Mar 2014 #93

To answer you, EvilAL Mar 2014 #95

Yes, you do have to narrow it down Starboard Tack Mar 2014 #96

Ok, that's fair, EvilAL Mar 2014 #97

Again, it's too easy to point to religion in general, or even a specific religion Starboard Tack Mar 2014 #98

'narrowly interpret certain scriptures' EvilAL Mar 2014 #99

Great question. Not one I can answer. Starboard Tack Mar 2014 #100

Unfortunately, yes. EvilAL Mar 2014 #105

Bigotry is directed against people, not ideas. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #25

The problem with that theory is that religions are practiced by people el_bryanto Mar 2014 #33

That's pretty nonsensical Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #37

It depends on how the objections are framed el_bryanto Mar 2014 #38

Those are some problematic assertions Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #46

It depends on how far you are willing to go to support your belief el_bryanto Mar 2014 #48

Oh, come on now. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #49

Conservatism is believed and practiced by people. trotsky Mar 2014 #39

That's a good argument; i'll have to think about that el_bryanto Mar 2014 #41

And vice-versa. trotsky Mar 2014 #42

Yes but surely what distinguishes conservatives el_bryanto Mar 2014 #43

Do you think it is impossible for you to be wrong? trotsky Mar 2014 #45

I do think I could be wrong el_bryanto Mar 2014 #47

The point in asking if you could be wrong... trotsky Mar 2014 #50

It would depend to what degree you are opposed to conservatism el_bryanto Mar 2014 #52

So going back to what you said: trotsky Mar 2014 #53

No - I still think that's accurate el_bryanto Mar 2014 #54

"to be an anti-theist you have to oppose those actions a theist takes" trotsky Mar 2014 #55

Well you would be opposed to the conservative actions of conservatives? el_bryanto Mar 2014 #56

So again we're back to whether it makes someone bigoted to be opposed to conservatism. trotsky Mar 2014 #60

Well you probably are bigoted against racists, by the Google definition. el_bryanto Mar 2014 #62

Not quite Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #63

I looked up bigotry actually el_bryanto Mar 2014 #66

Well then with the bar set that high... trotsky Mar 2014 #64

well that's just to illustrate the difference isn't it? el_bryanto Mar 2014 #65

Sure, since your statement attacks atheists as people and not just atheism as an idea. trotsky Mar 2014 #67

You are right and I apologize. el_bryanto Mar 2014 #68

Definitely not a bigoted statement. trotsky Mar 2014 #72

I think this might be a point where we disagree - because I do see it as hostile definitely el_bryanto Mar 2014 #73

Because I can distinguish between people Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #51

Yes... MellowDem Mar 2014 #24

one thing I often wonder Niceguy1 Mar 2014 #26

Now that's condescending Act_of_Reparation Mar 2014 #28

no I wasn't being condescending to atheists Niceguy1 Mar 2014 #29

Most believers probably don't spend a lot of time in the religion forum el_bryanto Mar 2014 #35

Lots of "bashing" occurs on DU. trotsky Mar 2014 #40

depends on which religion DonCoquixote Mar 2014 #27

Yup. Iggo Mar 2014 #30

Religion asks for "faith." Which means believing without adequate evidence; which is BIGOTRY... Brettongarcia Mar 2014 #31

I like to vote! Inkfreak Mar 2014 #44

Let's do another poll to see if it Requires One to IGNORE bigotry. AtheistCrusader Mar 2014 #57

I was quoting a line by MellowDem - that's why it's phrased that way. nt el_bryanto Mar 2014 #58

Fair enough. I missed the backstory. AtheistCrusader Mar 2014 #59

Depends on the religion LostOne4Ever Mar 2014 #90

No, but yes if you add the word "literally". N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2014 #91

I think that's the point el_bryanto Mar 2014 #92

At this point, it's just semantics. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2014 #94

Depends whether one's religion is performative or theological. Deep13 Mar 2014 #101

Even if the Abrahamic religions did require rejection of every other religion cbayer Mar 2014 #103