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Religion

In reply to the discussion: What is a belief system? [View all]

Eko

(7,586 posts)
20. Sigh.
Mon May 7, 2018, 10:30 PM
May 2018

The elements (concepts, propositions, rules, etc.) of a belief system are not
consensual.
That is, the elements of one system might be quite different from
those of a second in the same content domain. And a third system different from
both. Individual differences of this kind do not generally characterize ordinary
knowledge systems, except insofar as one might want to represent differences in
capability or complexity

Belief systems are in part concerned with the existence or nonexistence of
certain conceptual entities. God, motherland, witches, and assassination
conspiracies are examples of such entities.
This feature of belief systems is
essentially a special case of the nonconsensuality feature.

9) Belief systems often include representations of alternative worlds, typically the
world as it is and the world as it should be. Revolutionary or Utopian belief
systems especially have this character. The world must be changed in order to
achieve an idealized state, and discussions of such change must elaborate how
present reality operates deficiently, and what political, economic, social (etc.)
factors must be manipulated in order to eliminate the deficiencies.

11) Belief systems are likely to include a substantial amount of episodic material
from either personal experience or (for cultural belief systems) from folklore or
(for political doctrines) from propaganda.

13) Beliefs can be held with varying degrees of certitude. The believer can be
passionately committed to a point of view, or at the other extreme could regard
a state of affairs as more probable than not. This dimension of variation is
absent from knowledge systems. One would not say that one knew a fact
strongly. There exist some examples of attempts to model variable credences or
"'confidence weights" of beliefs and how these change as a function of new
information. A distinction should be made between the certitude attaching to a
single belief and the strength of attachment to a large system of beliefs.

2. ELEMENTS OF BELIEF SYSTEMS
1) Values. Implicitly or explicitly, belief systems define what is good or valuable.
Ideal values tend to be abstract summaries of the behavioral attributes which
social system rewards, formulated after the fact.

2) Substantive beliefs (Sb). They are the more important and basic beliefs of a
belief system. Statements such as: all the power for the people, God exists,
Black is Beautiful, and so on, comprise the actual content of the belief systems
and may take almost any form. For the believers, substantive beliefs are the
focus of interest.

3) Orientation. The believer may assume the existence of a framework of
assumptions around his thought, it may not actually exist. The orientation he
shares with other believers may be illusory. For example, consider almost any
politic and sociologic belief system. Such system evolves highly detailed and
highly systematic doctrines long after they come into existence and that they
came into existence of rather specific substantive beliefs. Believers interact,
share specific consensuses, and give themselves a specific name: Marxism,
socialism, Nazism, etc. Then, professionals of this belief system work out an
orientation, logic, sets of criteria of validity, and so forth.

I could keep going, but did you see anywhere in there, which was very detailed and concise, that they include science?



What is a belief system? [View all] marylandblue May 2018 OP
It is often used, especially in this forum, guillaumeb May 2018 #1
Can you define belief system without using the words belief or system in the definition marylandblue May 2018 #5
Here. Eko May 2018 #7
That's pretty good, but what if I don't have a religion, philosophy or moral code marylandblue May 2018 #9
Hopefully you have a moral code. Eko May 2018 #10
I don't have a code, I have moral intuitions marylandblue May 2018 #11
So you have Eko May 2018 #12
Yes, but they aren't codified, so aren't really beliefs marylandblue May 2018 #14
I dont see how that differs from a moral code at all. Eko May 2018 #16
I don't think it's wrong to kill or go to war marylandblue May 2018 #18
Well there is your moral code. Eko May 2018 #22
Like I said, that's an intuition, not a code. marylandblue May 2018 #25
Whatever you say. Eko May 2018 #30
Informal versus formal. guillaumeb May 2018 #71
I don't know, right now I think MM in #59 is right marylandblue May 2018 #73
But if you have beliefs, guillaumeb May 2018 #80
Yes, but the whole thing is such a broad conception so as to be worthless marylandblue May 2018 #84
It is not worthless because it governs your behavior. guillaumeb May 2018 #85
Worthless as a concept related to religion discussions, not worthless in general marylandblue May 2018 #88
I liked your analogy of using the same language. guillaumeb May 2018 #89
Here is another. Eko May 2018 #8
Thanks, interesting article marylandblue May 2018 #13
No, Eko May 2018 #15
I read the paper, why isn't science a belief system? marylandblue May 2018 #17
Sigh. Eko May 2018 #20
I don't see anywhere where it excludes it marylandblue May 2018 #24
Right off the bat it does, I even put it in bold. Eko May 2018 #26
That definition still doesn't exclude science marylandblue May 2018 #32
Uh, yes it does. Eko May 2018 #34
That is true among people who accept science marylandblue May 2018 #37
They dont interpret it differently, Eko May 2018 #39
We are defining science differently marylandblue May 2018 #41
Talking with you is going nowhere. Eko May 2018 #42
I didn't say their beliefs were just as valid marylandblue May 2018 #43
And that science is a belief. Eko May 2018 #45
Like I said, we are defining science differently marylandblue May 2018 #47
So, what is science? Eko May 2018 #50
I gave you my definition of science in #41 marylandblue May 2018 #54
And I didnt say you said they were just as valid. Eko May 2018 #46
I am not giving credence to anything marylandblue May 2018 #48
Wrong beliefs? Eko May 2018 #49
"Belief" and "opinion" are not always synonymous. marylandblue May 2018 #53
Science and religion are in two totally different realms of thought. Tobin S. May 2018 #56
But not really. trotsky May 2018 #60
Creation stories aren't meant to be taken literally. Tobin S. May 2018 #62
"Creation stories aren't meant to be taken literally." trotsky May 2018 #64
I can just report to you what happened. Tobin S. May 2018 #91
Actually, there is a way. trotsky May 2018 #94
Oh, they weren't? Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #66
Trotsky just said 42% of Americans are creationists Tobin S. May 2018 #92
I don't see that as particularly damaging to my argument. Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #93
I dont believe the earth is round. Eko May 2018 #68
See the definition of belief marylandblue May 2018 #72
Here is the oxford. Eko May 2018 #74
"something one accepts as true" marylandblue May 2018 #76
I think you missed the rest of that. Eko May 2018 #77
Cambridge. Eko May 2018 #75
I'm not sure why you are just multiplying dictionary definition marylandblue May 2018 #79
I must have posted the wrong one. Eko May 2018 #81
You know what are some other synonyms for belief are? Eko May 2018 #83
Neil deGrasse Tyson Eko May 2018 #78
And it is easily provable. Eko May 2018 #70
In the simplest sense it's a mental construct that defines the world around you. Major Nikon May 2018 #23
What is the difference between a mental construct that defines the world marylandblue May 2018 #27
One is a house, the other is a hammer Major Nikon May 2018 #31
That analogy doesn't explain anything marylandblue May 2018 #38
A belief system is also tool Major Nikon May 2018 #44
False metaphor Buzz cook May 2018 #52
Religion is totally a belief system. Eko May 2018 #28
Individual religions typically include a belief system Major Nikon May 2018 #33
definition. Eko May 2018 #36
Religion is far more encompassing Major Nikon May 2018 #40
It is a term used here repeatedly in equivocation Voltaire2 May 2018 #2
Much straw evident here. guillaumeb May 2018 #3
So are you now conceding that atheism isn't a belief system? Major Nikon May 2018 #29
Do you believe that its premise is true? guillaumeb May 2018 #69
I have a dodge, not an answer. So let's not pretend otherwise. Major Nikon May 2018 #86
Your title explains it all. guillaumeb May 2018 #87
And here I thought your dictionary skills had granted you literacy Major Nikon May 2018 #90
See that's the most important point. trotsky May 2018 #61
There are many different types of belief systems, Eko May 2018 #4
I dunno. Sounds science-ey. Iggo May 2018 #6
I believe in science dhol82 May 2018 #19
philosophy, ethics, speculation and Middle Earth marylandblue May 2018 #21
Science encompasses them all. Except for middle earth.... dhol82 May 2018 #35
Some philosophers would argue philosophy encompasses science rather than the other way around Major Nikon May 2018 #51
What is a belief? Buzz cook May 2018 #55
"Belief" in a religious context means something different Major Nikon May 2018 #58
Still belief, just not for a very good reason. Buzz cook May 2018 #63
One of those things has a foundation in evidence and reason Major Nikon May 2018 #65
It's confusing because apologists have made it a keystone in some of their worst argumentation. Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #57
It means whatever a person thinks it means at the time. MineralMan May 2018 #59
That's probably the most accurate definition here. marylandblue May 2018 #67
My apologies. guillaumeb May 2018 #82
Thanks, but I don't like how this discussion went marylandblue May 2018 #95
How would you do so? guillaumeb May 2018 #96
I thought I'd get a better idea of what makes something a true belief system marylandblue May 2018 #97
And if we ask 100 people why they call themselves a Democrat, guillaumeb May 2018 #98
Actually that question was asked a few months ago in General Discussion marylandblue May 2018 #99
If it allows you to make sense of the world, call it what you wish. guillaumeb May 2018 #100
My assertion isn't just about a name marylandblue May 2018 #101
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