Religion

Eko

(9,651 posts)

22. I dont know. This one is pretty strong.

Fri May 11, 2018, 08:48 PM

May 2018

"[N]o one sees with greater pleasure than myself the progress of reason in it’s advances towards rational Christianity. when we shall have done away the incomprehensible jargon of the Trinitarian arithmetic, that three are one, and one is three; when we shall have knocked down the artificial scaffolding, reared to mask from view the simple structure of Jesus, when, in short, we shall have unlearned every thing which has been taught since his day, and got back to the pure and simple doctrines he inculcated, we shall then be truly and worthily his disciples: and my opinion is that if nothing had ever been added to what flowed purely from his lips, the whole world would at this day have been Christian. I know that the case you cite, of Dr Drake, has been a common one. the religion-builders have so distorted and deformed the doctrines of Jesus, so muffled them in mysticisms, fancies and falsehoods, have caricatured them into forms so monstrous and inconcievable, as to shock reasonable thinkers, to revolt them against the whole, and drive them rashly to pronounce it’s founder an imposter.

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Deism. What it is, and what it is not. [View all] guillaumeb May 2018 OP

'The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries elleng May 2018 #1

True. And I feel that many theists accept that view. eom guillaumeb May 2018 #5

Speculation Lordquinton May 2018 #26

Of course. And I framed it as an opinion. guillaumeb May 2018 #32

It's still mere speculation Lordquinton May 2018 #45

Some could have been atheists Eko May 2018 #2

Speculation. guillaumeb May 2018 #7

Maybe, maybe not. Eko May 2018 #18

He seems to have opposed the negative aspects of the institution. guillaumeb May 2018 #20

I dont know. This one is pretty strong. Eko May 2018 #22

Jefferson also wrote that each generation needs a revolution. guillaumeb May 2018 #29

What does that have to do with religion? Lordquinton May 2018 #46

It has to do with Jefferson and his views. guillaumeb May 2018 #65

So it's a non-sequitur meant to distract from the topic Lordquinton May 2018 #76

You seem confused. guillaumeb May 2018 #108

No, you're just trying to cover for yourself Lordquinton May 2018 #128

Congratulations on convincing yourself. guillaumeb May 2018 #136

Wow, a stock answer with less than zero substance Lordquinton May 2018 #142

Amazingly enough, I thought the same about your response. guillaumeb May 2018 #145

And again distracting from the topic at hand Lordquinton May 2018 #151

And again, missing the point. guillaumeb May 2018 #154

Did you even read what I wrote? Lordquinton May 2018 #169

You're missing the point Major Nikon May 2018 #182

It's a good thing I'm used to these responces Lordquinton May 2018 #190

As predictable as a broken record Major Nikon May 2018 #183

Oh my... Lordquinton May 2018 #191

A choir of one, apparently. trotsky May 2018 #202

There's always the fan club Major Nikon May 2018 #203

Update Lordquinton May 2018 #213

It would save a lot of time if he just numbered his responses Major Nikon May 2018 #214

I think you missed... NeoGreen May 2018 #215

I'm going to have to combine some of them Major Nikon May 2018 #216

how about delineated variations... NeoGreen May 2018 #217

That would save a lot of time Lordquinton May 2018 #218

Someone should open a thread on it Major Nikon May 2018 #219

Perhaps when more time is available Lordquinton May 2018 #220

Did he really say that? dont think so. Eko May 2018 #164

There you go with your reality again Major Nikon May 2018 #184

Sorry Mr Major Sir! Eko May 2018 #185

You need to put yourself on report Major Nikon May 2018 #186

I think it might have been the 12th. Eko May 2018 #189

That's fully covered by the 11th Major Nikon May 2018 #194

Shucks. Eko May 2018 #195

Does that say how it relates to his views on religion? Lordquinton May 2018 #192

I think I could answer that, Eko May 2018 #196

Taking it far away from the topic at hand Lordquinton May 2018 #197

ah, Guillaumeb is a ally. Eko May 2018 #198

guillaumeb saidsimplesimon May 2018 #178

I do find it interesting that Eko May 2018 #231

Sometimes I wish that Jefferson favored the period lordsummerisle May 2018 #177

He didnt say that also. Eko May 2018 #168

This doesn't sound like opposition to the negative aspects of the institution. Eko May 2018 #170

So where were the atheists of the 17th and 18th centuries? Major Nikon May 2018 #23

A good question. guillaumeb May 2018 #30

And you are certainly entitled to that opinion Major Nikon May 2018 #38

Unfamiliarity with the concept? guillaumeb May 2018 #64

Not an answer Major Nikon May 2018 #81

I was referring to your question, and a possible reason guillaumeb May 2018 #109

Understanding the difference seems to be the best reason. YMMV. Major Nikon May 2018 #121

Revelation is an interesting subject. guillaumeb May 2018 #132

They also do Major Nikon May 2018 #138

You well demonstrate what you attack. guillaumeb May 2018 #144

My first line matter of factly answers the question you posed yourself. Major Nikon May 2018 #153

You have convinced yourself. guillaumeb May 2018 #155

I can't take all the credit Major Nikon May 2018 #157

Yes, you can. guillaumeb May 2018 #159

No need to be so modest Major Nikon May 2018 #162

Speaking of debates, this one was a bit bizarre. guillaumeb May 2018 #163

You post this immediately after your diversion remark? Major Nikon May 2018 #173

Are you welcoming me from "mansplaining" world? guillaumeb May 2018 #209

Won the debate with you as well Lordquinton May 2018 #193

Some arguments are self-defeating Major Nikon May 2018 #212

Actually the term "atheist" was used by Greeks and Romans to refer to early Christians. malchickiwick May 2018 #52

The term was also used differently in the 17th and 18th centuries by freethinkers Major Nikon May 2018 #53

Do you think "creator" and "god" are interchangeable? Major Nikon May 2018 #44

So, are you a deist? MineralMan May 2018 #3

I am a theist first, guillaumeb May 2018 #8

So, then, you are not a Christian? MineralMan May 2018 #10

I see no problem with being a Christian and a deist. guillaumeb May 2018 #12

OK, then... MineralMan May 2018 #14

Was this Jesus person a god? Voltaire2 May 2018 #49

I agree with the American Friends that each person has a fragment of the divine. guillaumeb May 2018 #66

That is not an answer. Voltaire2 May 2018 #71

If all humans are a part of the Creator, guillaumeb May 2018 #106

Nope. Still haven't answered. Voltaire2 May 2018 #114

I did answer, but not as you wanted. guillaumeb May 2018 #120

I understood it perfectly Major Nikon May 2018 #176

So you think you're a god? Lordquinton May 2018 #129

You sound confused. guillaumeb May 2018 #137

Again, not in the slightest Lordquinton May 2018 #146

Definitely confused. guillaumeb May 2018 #148

You talking about yourself? Lordquinton May 2018 #167

Sometimes a non-answer provides far more information Major Nikon May 2018 #179

multiply this by a hundred Lordquinton May 2018 #188

"the message of Jesus" trotsky May 2018 #204

Still confused? guillaumeb May 2018 #211

Gaslighting. n/t trotsky May 2018 #221

Does that not make you an atheist? Major Nikon May 2018 #59

Are you working on some sort of routine? guillaumeb May 2018 #70

Come on Gil, don't project. Mariana May 2018 #74

Just questioning how much or little you know about the subject matter Major Nikon May 2018 #83

As are mine of you. guillaumeb May 2018 #110

Sorry I didn't mention it before, but thanks for utterly disproving your argument Major Nikon May 2018 #124

Thank you for confirming my suspicion. guillaumeb May 2018 #135

I am, thanks for noticing. Major Nikon May 2018 #139

Preceded my agnostic 'belief,' elleng May 2018 #4

My opinion is that this described George LeMaitre as well. guillaumeb May 2018 #9

Who was a theist and decidedly not a deist Major Nikon May 2018 #84

Sarcasm and insult are not substitutes for insight. guillaumeb May 2018 #111

You stole my line! Major Nikon May 2018 #123

Depends on what they meant by "placeholder" marylandblue May 2018 #6

After reading the response, and replying to it, guillaumeb May 2018 #11

You never actually asked that question marylandblue May 2018 #13

I disagree. guillaumeb May 2018 #15

I have no dog in this fight marylandblue May 2018 #19

I accept that about you. guillaumeb May 2018 #21

The best part is his own source says virtually the exact same thing Major Nikon May 2018 #42

Ouch. trotsky May 2018 #205

Disagree all you want. The facts tell a different story. Major Nikon May 2018 #41

If you refrained from insults and attack, guillaumeb May 2018 #115

The facts tell a different story Major Nikon May 2018 #122

Your responses are very harmonious. guillaumeb May 2018 #134

Whatever that means Major Nikon May 2018 #140

It was his choir insult. It should be on the list. Voltaire2 May 2018 #223

Sounds more like a sock allegation Major Nikon May 2018 #224

Could be that too. Voltaire2 May 2018 #225

I'm sure at this point he would love nothing more than to see this thread fall off the first page. trotsky May 2018 #228

Yes. We are supposed to sing in harmony. MineralMan May 2018 #226

That's exactly what happened Lordquinton May 2018 #47

At least you admit your strawman Major Nikon May 2018 #24

"no evidence" Major Nikon May 2018 #133

You missed an essential part. guillaumeb May 2018 #141

Funny how you pretend to want to engage in dialog after injecting yet more strawman into it Major Nikon May 2018 #150

Funny how you ignored my point. guillaumeb May 2018 #152

The evidence proves otherwise Major Nikon May 2018 #160

Nice try. guillaumeb May 2018 #161

One would have to be delusional to think so Major Nikon May 2018 #165

I am enjoying how you divert yourself. guillaumeb May 2018 #166

I'm diverting to your own words. Please try to stay focused. Major Nikon May 2018 #172

"Deists believe in a god of nature -- a noninterventionist creator" procon May 2018 #16

I understand your position. guillaumeb May 2018 #17

It's actually simplistic and non-inclusive Major Nikon May 2018 #56

It has always somewhat surprised me when religious folks try to appropriate procon May 2018 #57

Most religions have some kind of creation myth Major Nikon May 2018 #58

That's why I'm an atheist, it's much less complicated than the religious contortions. procon May 2018 #60

There are those here who make that overly complicated as well Major Nikon May 2018 #61

LOL - that's good, too. nt procon May 2018 #62

Christians are not deists Cartoonist May 2018 #25

Christians can be deists Major Nikon May 2018 #27

Are there Christians like that? Cartoonist May 2018 #28

At one time there were many Major Nikon May 2018 #37

By definition, Christians must believe that Jesus was 'anointed' muriel_volestrangler May 2018 #85

And thus the matter is settled? guillaumeb May 2018 #31

Just responding to your OP Cartoonist May 2018 #33

The sources can make that claim. guillaumeb May 2018 #34

I'm OK with the definition you provided. Cartoonist May 2018 #35

Deity and deism. guillaumeb May 2018 #63

Dumb and dumber Cartoonist May 2018 #77

Anyone can be a Christian. Mariana May 2018 #43

There are those who believe otherwise Major Nikon May 2018 #86

Yeah, and they all believe and disbelieve different things. nt. Mariana May 2018 #87

It's part of the Christian tradition to argue about who is a Christian marylandblue May 2018 #91

Things were much simpler when you could just BBQ dissenters Major Nikon May 2018 #92

A non-interventionist creator paleotn May 2018 #36

This becomes apparent when you consider how they avoided the supernatural Major Nikon May 2018 #39

I think you didn't read very far into your own source Major Nikon May 2018 #40

I think you are channeling another poster here. guillaumeb May 2018 #67

The same methods of actually reading the material you provided? Mariana May 2018 #79

Same nonsense Major Nikon May 2018 #82

Such a literalist Lordquinton May 2018 #48

Your source is biased. Mariana May 2018 #50

Did you really expect anything other than confirmation bias? Major Nikon May 2018 #55

Name an unbiased source. guillaumeb May 2018 #68

You can do better. Mariana May 2018 #72

And some can find fault with everything guillaumeb May 2018 #112

Websters, Collins, Oxford, Britanica, among others Major Nikon May 2018 #89

So you openly admit you went to a biased source? Lordquinton May 2018 #96

You need to reread what I wrote. guillaumeb May 2018 #113

Funny how you always say that when you've been busted contradicting yourself Major Nikon May 2018 #126

Ok, reread it Lordquinton May 2018 #127

What are you trying to accomplish with all your post? njhoneybadger May 2018 #51

Nailed it Major Nikon May 2018 #54

You sound convinced of your own opinion. guillaumeb May 2018 #69

What are you trying to accomplish with your post? nt. Mariana May 2018 #73

... Major Nikon May 2018 #94

To promote dialogue in with those who wish it. guillaumeb May 2018 #107

Please do keep promoting this thread Major Nikon May 2018 #143

Your best talent so far seems to be posting such clips. guillaumeb May 2018 #147

Yours seems to be hubris Major Nikon May 2018 #156

You need a better dictionary. guillaumeb May 2018 #158

We can use yours if you like Major Nikon May 2018 #171

LMAO trotsky May 2018 #206

At least he is consistently inconsistent Major Nikon May 2018 #207

Not another type of theist - here's the definition of theism: muriel_volestrangler May 2018 #75

You may be using a too-high level of diction. MineralMan May 2018 #78

Were you confused? guillaumeb May 2018 #117

Someone is Major Nikon May 2018 #181

Kinda funny though Major Nikon May 2018 #88

Now, here we have the crux of the matter. Both recognize a supreme being but PatrickforO May 2018 #105

So in your view, what does a deist believe that's different from your belief? Major Nikon May 2018 #180

According to the definitions provided here, the deist believes there is a God, PatrickforO May 2018 #199

Creation was intervention. guillaumeb May 2018 #116

Which is where the intervention stops for deists Major Nikon May 2018 #131

You yourself bolded "a noninterventionist creator". Are you saying that's an oxymoron muriel_volestrangler May 2018 #200

What's your take on free will? Htom Sirveaux May 2018 #80

As sentient beings, we have free will. guillaumeb May 2018 #118

From your own crappy source: Voltaire2 May 2018 #90

... Major Nikon May 2018 #93

Apparently, one needs only to read the introductory material MineralMan May 2018 #95

The 11th Commandment in action is amusing to behold. guillaumeb May 2018 #119

"amusing to behold" Major Nikon May 2018 #125

"Mansplaining" can also be amusing to see. guillaumeb May 2018 #229

... Major Nikon May 2018 #230

So pointing out that your source contradicts your thesis is a violation of your rules? Voltaire2 May 2018 #222

Many things are amusing... MineralMan May 2018 #227

Someone clearly got their feelings hurt in the process Major Nikon May 2018 #232

So you go to a conservative christian site for absolute definition on religious matters Lordquinton May 2018 #97

This thread is now a religion forum classic trainwreck. Voltaire2 May 2018 #98

It should be a sticky Major Nikon May 2018 #99

Well, it is sunday... Lordquinton May 2018 #100

Bookmarking to be a permanent reference... NeoGreen May 2018 #101

Don't forget to rec Major Nikon May 2018 #102

Done (nt) NeoGreen May 2018 #103

Oh, we do know Lordquinton May 2018 #130

K&R for future reference. MineralMan May 2018 #104

Only 27 out of 80. guillaumeb May 2018 #149

The quality more than makes up for the quantity Major Nikon May 2018 #174

Irrelevant to the discussion. MineralMan May 2018 #208

There's a lesson to be learned here Major Nikon May 2018 #187

"Thoughts" saidsimplesimon May 2018 #175

Which does not make them atheists. guillaumeb May 2018 #210

And there you go with a fine display of hypocrisy once again. trotsky May 2018 #201

Deism defers to the study of Nature; Science Bretton Garcia May 2018 #233

This might be an eternal thread. Voltaire2 May 2018 #234

Hopefully there's no religion in it Bretton Garcia May 2018 #235

Good god man, don't ever say that Major Nikon May 2018 #236