Do religions NEED Heaven and Hell?

[Igel]

7. Do governments need jails and rewards to keep their citizens in line?

If you do bad things, you'll be put in jail, deprived of being with your family and, I supposed, your friends for years. You'll lose money.

If you do good things, you get rewarded. You're allowed to find food and shelter, you're considered an upstanding member of your community and get respect from others, promotions at work, positions of authority. And if government's in the business of providing food and shelter or other perks, if you obey the law you'll be in a position of being sheltered and will never hunger or thirst.



Do parties and movements need disfellowshipping and perks to keep their members in line? If you say the wrong thing you're out of the party, stripped of responsibilities. Even if it was a mistake you repented of fairly soon, or it was a reasonable choice in a menu of 50 choices. It was the important one for that moment. Or somebody's viewed as a paragon of the movement for taking a position, even though the person sacrifices babies to Hayek every summer.


Same for schools. Do your work, there's a bribe. You get your diploma. That means you're privileged, compared to those without. Don't do you work, you go to in-school suspension, making you more likely not to get your diploma.


But is that the only way to ensure a reasonably reasonable society?

No. Most people are law-abiding just out of fear, and I doubt most are law-abiding just because they're in it for the awesome rewards that come. But for some, it's fear. Of jail, of having your life ruined, of being kicked out of your party and ostracized by colleagues. For some it's swag. For others it's fidelity, love for the group you're in or some person in the group (aka patriotism, nationalism, ethnocentrism, etc., none of which have to be primarily other-directed; note I'm not into distinguishing the fine structure of "ethnocentrism" versus "ethnic pride&quot . I guess it's possible to reduce that to "rewarded by approval," but it feels different than "rewarded by money," and we have different words for the two (with 'rewarded by money' being considered derogatory until fairly recently, when $ became the metric by which everybody seems to measure everything).

Kids in school may fall into line, barely, because of threats and punishment. Some may be bribed by the reward. "Do this, get that." Being connected to the school community matters, but makes for a different set of rewards and punishments. Most of the good students do their work and get good grades because either they've learned to like learning overall or they've identified something they want to learn. One kid a few years ago loved cello and went to conservatory, and set his own reward--playing a Tchaikovsky piece flawlessly for his audition. "Don't care if I get in, I rocked." Another liked going through the hoops to his small engine certification. Never "it'll get me a job" but "I really like fixing engines." Fear. Swag. Love.

For most, of course, it's conditioning.

Most Xian groups would say, "Fear is the beginning of wisdom." And the general view to those who do things for physical reward is, "Here, you have your reward, no go away." Otherwise, it's "perfect love casts out all fear." Fear. Swag. Love. (And there's still conditioning for many: "Teach children how they should live, and they will remember it all their life.&quot