To my fellow atheist, do you think believers just wrong?

[LTX]

97. This is a caricature of Christianity.

Last edited Sat Aug 31, 2013, 06:24 PM - Edit history (2)

Admittedly, I am in a poor position to expound on Christian theology. And Jewish theology is notoriously elusive. But the concept of "perfection" in Jewish philosophical traditions (which are, after all, ontological precursors to Christian theology) is not easily translated into a modern notion of "perfect ethical manifestation" (akin to your idea of living "just as Christ&quot . The presupposition is that no man can be as God, and that perfection is therefore limited by the moral frailties endemic in man.

Hebraic perfection is, in the context of man, a verb form, in the vein of effort or striving, necessarily limited by the inherent imperfectability of a fleeting, difficult, and transient human existence. Man must live in the conditions presented, and in the conditions presented, capable "perfection" is roughly two-fold, (1) perfected humility and forgiveness coupled with (2) perfected openness to, and striving for, knowledge. As I see it, this second aspect, with its corollary of good faith argument with God, was rather swiftly suppressed in Christendom and replaced by an expectation of devotional obedience, albeit devotional obedience softened by a recognition that such obedience was itself a process. But the presupposition of inherent imperfectability, and effort or striving as goal unto itself, remained.

The measure of faith or belief is not, in this context, behavioral perfection or a behavioral mimicking of Christ, which is frankly not possible in the conditions presented by an imperfect human civilization, but the honesty of effort and unstinting introspection by which one perfects humility, forgiveness, and exertion toward knowledge (or alternatively, devotion).

None of this is to suggest that hypocritical Christians and Jews do not exist, or that, at even this lesser although still arduous measure of faith, Christians and Jews do not regularly and miserably fail. It is only to put in perspective the high caricature of your alleged expectation of "true" Christians.