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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: Bernie Could Still Win [View all]Octafish
(55,745 posts)104. Four names stand for what I know about UFOs: Mantell, Moncla, Wilson, Valentich.
The first three were pilots, officers in the United States armed forces. The fourth name was a young Australian air cadet. Each lost their life in association with UFOs. There likely are others. Here's a bit on them:
Thomas Mantell
Mantell Case (1948)
EXCERPT...
Mantell was an experienced pilot; his flight history consisted of 2,167 hours in the air, and he had been honored for his part in the Battle of Normandy during World War II.
On 7 January 1948, Godman Field at Fort Knox, Kentucky received a report from the Kentucky Highway Patrol of an unusual aerial object near Maysville, Kentucky. Reports of a westbound circular object, 250 feet (76 m) to 300 feet (91 m) in diameter, were received from Owensboro, Kentucky, and Irvington, Kentucky.
At about 1:45 p.m., Sgt Quinton Blackwell saw an object from his position in the control tower at Fort Knox. Two other witnesses in the tower also reported a white object in the distance. Base commander Colonel Guy Hix reported an object he described as "very white," and "about one fourth the size of the full moon ... Through binoculars it appeared to have a red border at the bottom ... It remained stationary, seemingly, for one and a half hours." Observers at Clinton County Army Air Field in Ohio described the object "as having the appearance of a flaming red cone trailing a gaseous green mist" and observed the object for around 35 minutes. Another observer at Lockbourne Army Air Field in Ohio noted, "Just before leaving it came to very near the ground, staying down for about ten seconds, then climbed at a very fast rate back to its original altitude, 10,000 feet, leveling off and disappearing into the overcast heading 120 degrees. Its speed was greater than 500 mph in level flight."
Four P-51 Mustangs of C Flight, 165th Fighter Squadron Kentucky Air National Guard already in the airone piloted by Mantellwere told to approach the object. Blackwell was in radio communication with the pilots throughout the event.
One pilot's Mustang was low on fuel, and he quickly abandoned his efforts. Air Force Captain Edward J. Ruppelt (the first head of Project Blue Book) notes that there was some disagreement amongst the air traffic controllers as to Mantell's words as he communicated with the tower: some sources reported that Mantell had described an object " which) looks metallic and of tremendous size," but, according to Ruppelt in The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects, others disputed whether or not Mantell actually said this.
The other two pilots accompanied Mantell in steep pursuit of the object. They later reported they saw an object, but described it as so small and indistinct they could not identify it. Mantell ignored suggestions that the pilots should level their altitude and try to more clearly see the object.
Only one of Mantell's companions, Lt. Albert Clemmons, had an oxygen mask, and his oxygen was in low supply. Clemmons and a Lt. Hammond called off their pursuit at 22,500 feet (6,900 m). Mantell continued to climb, however. According to the Air Force, once Mantell passed 25,000 feet (7,600 m) he supposedly blacked out from the lack of oxygen (hypoxia), and his plane began spiraling back towards the ground. A witness later reported Mantell's Mustang in a circling descent. His plane crashed at a farm south of Franklin, Kentucky, on the Tennessee-Kentucky state line.
Firemen later pulled Mantell's body from the Mustang's wreckage. His wristwatch had stopped at 3:18 p.m., the time of his crash. Meanwhile, by 3:50 p.m. the UFO was no longer visible to observers at Godman Field. The Mantell Incident was reported by newspapers around the nation, and received significant news media attention. A number of sensational rumors were also circulated about Mantell's crash. Among the rumors were claims that Mantell's fighter had been shot down by the UFO he was chasing, and that the Air Force covered up evidence proving this. Another rumor stated that Mantell's body was found riddled with strange holes. However, no evidence has ever surfaced to substantiate any of these claims. In 1956, Ruppelt wrote that the Mantell Crash was one of three "classic" UFO cases in 1948 that would help to define the UFO phenomenon in the public mind, and would help to convince Air Force intelligence specialists that UFOs were a "real", physical phenomenon (Ruppelt 30). The other two sightings were the Gorman Dogfight and the Chiles-Whitted UFO Encounter.
CONTINUED...
http://www.mufon.com/mantell-case---1948.html
Felix Moncla and Robert Wilson
Radar operator stated he watched the aircraft approach the UFO; then saw the two blips merge into one return on his scope; which then took off at a high rate of speed and out of radar range.
Marksville Weekly News
Avoyelles Parish has connections to a UFO mystery that goes back 49 years. Gordon Heath from Surrey, British Columbia was in Marksville recently to investigate the background of Lt. Felix E. Moncla who disappeared along with another crew member, Second Lt. Robert L. Wilson, over Lake Superior on Monday, November 23, 1953.
According to Heath, who is a UFO hobbyist, Moncla was on temporary assignment at Kinross Air Force Base in ...(sic. Michigan)... when he was sent to identify and unidentified craft over the Soo Locks, which is restricted airspace. Moncla, in an F-89C, pursued the craft for about 30 minutes flying at 30,000 feet over the middle of Lake Superior. He was flying about 500 mph when he was instructed by ground radar to descend to 7,000 feet.
When the unidentified craft was finally on radar it was noted that the two radar images, the UFO and the Air Force jet, were very close and at some point they intersected but only one remained. Heath says that the unidentified craft flew north and disappeared from radar.
Lt. Moncla's jet mysteriously disappeared without a trace.
http://www.nuforc.org/mancla.html
No remains of the crew or wreckage of the F-89C have been found.
Frederick Valentich
His late father holds the missing flyer's picture:
Delta Sierra Juliet? Do you read?
Boats and aircraft have found no trace of the 20-year old Australian pilot who disappeared with his plane on Saturday night after radioing that he was being chased by a UFO. Frederick Valentich was on a 125 mile training flight in his single engine Cessna 182 along the coast of Bass Strait when he told air traffic controllers in Melbourne that he was being buzzed by a UFO with 4 bright lights about 1000 feet above him.
Controllers said his last message was taped and was: "It's approaching from due east towards me. It seems to be playing some sort of game... flying at a speed I can't estimate. It's not an aircraft. It's...It is flying past. It is a long shape. I cannot identify more than that. It's coming for me right now." A minute later: "It seems to be stationary. I'm also orbiting and the thing is orbiting on top of me also. It has a green light and a sort of metallic light on the outside." Valentich then radioed that his engine was running roughly. His last words were: "It is not an aircraft."
The Australian Air Force said it had received 11 reports from people along the coast who said they saw UFOs on Saturday night, but the Transport Department was skeptical. Ken Williams, a spokesman for the department, said, "It's funny all these people ringing up with UFO reports well after Valentich's disappearance. It seems people often decide after the event, they too had seen strange lights. But although we can't take them too seriously, we can never discourgae such reports when investigating a plane's disappearance."
SNIP...
[font size="5"]ACTUAL TRANSCRIPTION OF MELBOURNE FLIGHT SERVICE [/font size]
The transcript portion of the communication between Valentich and Melbourne Flight Service as released by the Australian Department of Transport follows: (FS - Flight Service, DSJ - Frederick Valentich aircraft designation).
1906:14 DSJ Melbourne, this is Delta Sierra Juliet. Is there any known traffic below five thousand?
FS Delta Sierra Juliet, no known traffic.
DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, I am, seems to be a large aircraft below five thousand.
1906:44 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, What type of aircraft is it?
DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, I cannot affirm, it is four bright, it seems to me like landing lights.
1907 FS Delta Sierra Juliet.
1907:31 DSJ Melbourne, this is Delta Sierra Juliet, the aircraft has just passed over me at least a thousand feet above.
FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, and it is a large aircraft, confirmed?
DSJ Er-unknown, due to the speed it's travelling, is there any air force aircraft in the vicinity?
FS Delta Sierra Juliet, no known aircraft in the vicinity.
1908:18 DSJ Melbourne, it's approaching now from due east towards me.
FS Delta Sierra Juliet.
1908:41 DSJ (open microphone for two seconds.)
1908:48 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, it seems to me that he's playing some sort of game, he's flying over me two, three times at speeds I could not identify.
1909 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, what is your actual level?
DSJ My level is four and a half thousand, four five zero zero.
FS Delta Sierra Juliet, and you confirm you cannot identify the aircraft?
DSJ Affirmative.
FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, stand by.
1909:27 DSJ Melbourne, Delta Sierra Juliet, it's not an aircraft it is (open microphone for two seconds).
1909:42 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, can you describe the -er- aircraft?
DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, as it's flying past it's a long shape (open microphone for three seconds) cannot identify more than it has such speed (open microphone for three seconds). It's before me right now Melbourne.
1910 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger and how large would the - er - object be?
1910:19 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, Melbourne, it seems like it's stationary. What I'm doing right now is orbiting and the thing is just orbiting on top of me also. It's got a green light and sort of metallic like, it's all shiny on the outside.
FS Delta Sierra Juliet
1910:46 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet (open microphone for three seconds) It's just vanished.
FS Delta Sierra Juliet
1911 DSJ Melbourne, would you know what kind of aircraft I've got? Is it a military aircraft?
FS Delta Sierra Juliet, Confirm the - er ~ aircraft just vanished.
DSJ Say again.
FS Delta Sierra Juliet, is the aircraft still with you?
DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet; it's (open microphone for two seconds) now approaching from the south-west.
FS Delta Sierra Juliet
1911:50 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, the engine is rough-idling. I've got it set at twenty three twenty-four and the thing is coughing.
FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, what are your intentions?
DSJ My intentions are - ah - to go to King Island - ah - Melbourne. That strange aircraft is hovering on top of me again (open microphone for two seconds). It is hovering and it's not an aircraft.
FS Delta Sierra Juliet.
1912:28 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet. Melbourne (open microphone for seventeen seconds).
SOURCE: http://www.ufocasebook.com/australianpilot.html
Don't take it as a put-down. Some people are real closed-minded when it comes to UFOs.
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Bernie sunk himself when he said that Hillary was unqualified. That was the lowest I've ever seen.
grossproffit
Apr 2016
#7
I'm so sick of the misquoting of what Bernie Sanders said with regard to "unqualified."
bjo59
Apr 2016
#53
That is not even up for debate. Mrs. Cllnton did worst when she was running against
akbacchus_BC
Apr 2016
#54
Bernie CAN Still Win.. As Hillary HAs Pending Significant Legal Problems! The SHOE WILL DROP!
CorporatistNation
Apr 2016
#15
Goldman-Sachs said he could live with Clinton as president. As did the Koch Bros and
rhett o rick
Apr 2016
#113
But it is a majority, so the majority of superdelegates (according to the SANDERS campaign)....
George II
Apr 2016
#42
If "charges have been made" then there wouldn't be an investigation. You people have to...
George II
Apr 2016
#80
Many of them committed to her in tacit exchange for donation kickbacks through their
JudyM
Apr 2016
#24
MSM has never been more of an ethical disappointment than in its silence in this primary about
JudyM
Apr 2016
#28
Good point. But if you don't buy the Lottery Ticket, the odds of winning approach zero.
Octafish
Apr 2016
#14
Do you actually understand the difference between the notional value of derivatives versus the
Zynx
Apr 2016
#17
If the OP is silly enough to believe this, then open an Irish brokerage account
Gothmog
Apr 2016
#20
So author is saying Bernie could still win if Hillary is politically assassinated?
moriah
Apr 2016
#22
No. Author is saying Bernie could still win. Hillary doesn't have anything wrapped up.
Zen Democrat
Apr 2016
#40
Doesn't HRC still need to win 729 delegates, to get the nomination? So conceivably, neither can get
amborin
Apr 2016
#44
Why you keep raising my hopes? I really wish Mr. Sanders could win the nomination.
akbacchus_BC
Apr 2016
#55
Yes, he could, but Bernie's always been winning; and the rest of us won the day in May 2015
merrily
Apr 2016
#65
No one was trying to 'write him off'. Many said he couldn't win. And that was proven correct.
randome
Apr 2016
#73
Supporters of Sanders need to either double down on donating and working or jump ship. jMO
merrily
Apr 2016
#76
Four names stand for what I know about UFOs: Mantell, Moncla, Wilson, Valentich.
Octafish
Apr 2016
#104
I didn't read the whole thing. As soon as I got to your delegate count I knew it was a sham.
pdsimdars
Apr 2016
#111