2016 Postmortem

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)

126. Hortensis, 1) claiming millennials and lefties who don't vote for her

Mon Jun 6, 2016, 08:20 AM

Jun 2016

"literally don't know what she represents" is another variation of the "duped and complacent whippersnappers" meme that will come to haunt the Democratic party in general, and Clinton in particular. It's not an argument, it's a spinning lie. They usually have researched Clinton's record far more extensively than her worshippers. In fact: the more people get to know Clinton, the less they like what she stands for. That's why, in the words of Lawrence O'Donnell "Clinton never regains leads she has lost during an election campaign". Not-so-fun fact: she has already lost her lead over Trump.

2) I am not voting for her. I'm done with 20th century relics, and that includes the dead end called Third Way. But I wasn't always a "leaver". Nor am I "hard-core anti-Democrat far left". For a gay guy, I am pretty conservative, actually. But here's why I will never vote for her: the very moment she lost me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511483223

You want me to change my mind? Here's how:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511824845

No amount of analysts will convince me that those are expressions of some "Clinton derangement syndrome". They are the expression of a thoroughly fed-up gay millennial.

And don't even think of playing the Trump card with me. Our side has warned for months that Clinton will perform dismally against the yuuuuuge threat to the USA. If keeping him out of the White House is so important, it is not too late: you can always ask the super-delegates to vote for Bernie after all: he would bury Trump in a landslide. If you want to risk all on Clinton, that is on you. Not on me.

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If HRC IS nominated, she will HAVE to get every Sanders voter behind her to win... [View all] Ken Burch Jun 2016 OP

I had a post earlier in the day nadinbrzezinski Jun 2016 #1

The headline is factually incorrect. Hillary doesn't need every single Bernie voter to vote for her qdouble Jun 2016 #2

I think she just needs the bulk of those who voted for Obama. Garrett78 Jun 2016 #9

Yeah, there's a good section of BS supporters who don't like 99% of democrats in the first place.. qdouble Jun 2016 #11

"hate Hillary before and after the primary" - you are once more missing the point: Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #66

Some have repeatedly said that there is no difference between Hillary or trump even though qdouble Jun 2016 #69

JPR calls her a corporatist, so far as I could read. That is not pejorative. Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #71

Come on now, on JPR they have a thread made just for trying to find the most deragotory qdouble Jun 2016 #74

And yet, most Bernie supporters only hate what Clinton represents. Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #76

Well according to polls, the majority of BS supporters will vote for Clinton qdouble Jun 2016 #77

55% would vote for her - which is below the 60 - 70% she needs. Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #114

Most polling shows higher support than 55%, but regardless, historically, nominees will qdouble Jun 2016 #118

The latest YouGov poll says 55%. And Clinton never regains what she has lost. Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #129

Historically speaking "once her lead is gone, it's gone" qdouble Jun 2016 #142

Indeed: 55% is not Bernie or Bust. But 45 % is too many for Clinton to win. Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #149

You're being intentionally obtuse if you don't see that there is a big difference between qdouble Jun 2016 #154

Yes, but all that is part of a rapidly disappearing political-cultural model Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #172

You're referring to the 'anti-establishment vote'? Reiyuki Jun 2016 #179

So they "hate" her, as you say. So what? pangaia Jun 2016 #164

Sounds to me like you do hate her qdouble Jun 2016 #166

Everybody here throws around that word... pangaia Jun 2016 #170

Hating a person doesn't require that you personally use the word hate to describe your qdouble Jun 2016 #171

I didn't even say I have any 'feelings' about her. pangaia Jun 2016 #173

Betty, 1) Those who hate what she supposedly Hortensis Jun 2016 #103

Hortensis, 1) claiming millennials and lefties who don't vote for her Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #126

Wallowing in propaganda is not research. Hortensis Jun 2016 #128

projection is not retort Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #130

They got told by the moderators for it, too. Jester Messiah Jun 2016 #165

If you get your information from JPR Andy823 Jun 2016 #143

Yes, let's all pretend that every thing I say comes from JPR, so we can summarily dismiss it. Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #151

Here's the problem with that "voting record", the congress is mostly corporatist. Most of the glowing Jun 2016 #105

What's the point of that hypothetical when congress isn't going to magically disappear? qdouble Jun 2016 #107

A bully pulpit and energized populace that doesn't go home. glowing Jun 2016 #162

I'm having a hard time believing that Bernie will command as much sway as his supporters think he qdouble Jun 2016 #169

Ignore those people, then. pangaia Jun 2016 #160

93.% similar? A chimps dna is 98% the same as yours its that 2% that makes the difference. SwampG8r Jun 2016 #161

That "93%" figure comes from the inclusion of... Herman4747 Jun 2016 #201

Dismissing any areas in which they agree on as being trivial is just being divisive. qdouble Jun 2016 #202

My point was not that there is an absence of agreement... Herman4747 Jun 2016 #203

"Little to no personal animus" lol rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #131

How nice of you to broaden that brush so all his supporters can be painted with it. Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #133

All you have rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #136

If you find the sarcasm insulting, it's because it's touched a nerve with you. Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #144

Oooh "I'm rubber you're glue" rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #182

No. You may be projecting. Betty Karlson Jun 2016 #186

Just another member of the vampire castle here. BlindTiresias Jun 2016 #210

" How can you be so tin-eared?" pangaia Jun 2016 #158

Using the term BS is an insult. peace13 Jun 2016 #92

I didn't know referring to a person by their initials was an insult, but whatever. qdouble Jun 2016 #93

I'm sure you know. peace13 Jun 2016 #99

I see people type H, HRC and HC all the time... I've never seen anyone take offense to it. qdouble Jun 2016 #101

Are you assuming that very few if any Democrats will cross over to vote for Trump? JDPriestly Jun 2016 #38

They ingore the conservadems that crossed for Reagan nadinbrzezinski Jun 2016 #50

Trump may get some white male crossover, I seriously doubt he'll gain much of any traction qdouble Jun 2016 #96

True, but Hillary epitomizes "Conservadem", so no worries there. Jester Messiah Jun 2016 #145

Those aren't the folks who voted for Obama. Garrett78 Jun 2016 #184

I'm sure some will vote for Trump... but I can't imagine that most will switch at a higher rate than qdouble Jun 2016 #95

What you think is not based in reality. Lord Magus Jun 2016 #117

I specifically said "as long as they don't vote for Trump" in reference to BoBers. Garrett78 Jun 2016 #183

Exactly, there are good number of Indies and assorted lefties (even Paulistas) who wouldn't have JCMach1 Jun 2016 #198

No, i dont think so MFM008 Jun 2016 #3

Guilty as charged nadinbrzezinski Jun 2016 #5

You think it will be entertaining to watch a racist loon get elected to prove a point? qdouble Jun 2016 #13

I am not a democrat remember nadinbrzezinski Jun 2016 #25

Enough with the bullshit. You didn't magically start hating Hillary a negative post by a Hillary qdouble Jun 2016 #29

This might be a shock for you nadinbrzezinski Jun 2016 #32

What have I said to alienate independents in particular? qdouble Jun 2016 #39

Reread your posts nadinbrzezinski Jun 2016 #42

Saying that Hillary doesn't need every single Bernie supporter alienates independents? qdouble Jun 2016 #45

Actually she will nadinbrzezinski Jun 2016 #48

Honestly, I think Hillary has a 90% chance of winning and I think you're pretty shit at predicting qdouble Jun 2016 #53

Honestly "Trump should not be the nominee" nadinbrzezinski Jun 2016 #55

Trump was elected by republicans. For years their whole movement was home qdouble Jun 2016 #58

And the democrats and pundits under estimated him nadinbrzezinski Jun 2016 #59

Expected by who? Lord Magus Jun 2016 #125

By acting as if "Stopping Trump" is all that matters. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #51

Running on stopping Trump is just another variation of "Not as bad as the other guy" hobbit709 Jun 2016 #91

Yup. Shadowflash Jun 2016 #137

I was talking about democrats MFM008 Jun 2016 #18

Well, there is that about Trump nadinbrzezinski Jun 2016 #26

Tell me all the ways you find Republicans more welcoming than democrats. qdouble Jun 2016 #30

Actually neither has a big tent nadinbrzezinski Jun 2016 #34

So republicans are alienating independents at the same clip? qdouble Jun 2016 #37

Yes, actually nadinbrzezinski Jun 2016 #43

More people want to identify as independents...I understand that as I don't agree with qdouble Jun 2016 #49

And some of us will do with our franchisse what we will do with it nadinbrzezinski Jun 2016 #52

Yep! Duval Jun 2016 #219

If your not a democrat why the DU? MFM008 Jun 2016 #84

Some aren't Democrats, but we should be changing the party to make them WANT to be. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #54

Bernie voters turning out to help elect Hillary? Califonz Jun 2016 #4

I like the ongoing belief from Hillarians that she's... Buddyblazon Jun 2016 #106

getting your last insults in before the 16th? redstateblues Jun 2016 #204

That's not an insult... Buddyblazon Jun 2016 #212

Good luck. Scootaloo Jun 2016 #6

Yup nadinbrzezinski Jun 2016 #7

No, she won't. They're welcome to join us, but we'll manage without them if we have to do that. MADem Jun 2016 #8

Dream on. grasswire Jun 2016 #12

Life WILL be a dream. Count on it. Can't wait until HRC is sworn in! nt MADem Jun 2016 #16

bookmarking. nt grasswire Jun 2016 #23

Right back atcha! nt MADem Jun 2016 #120

No Republican voter will ever vote against the GOP presidential ticket again. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #21

Really? You'll want to have a word with this bunch-they didn't get the memo! MADem Jun 2016 #127

Hillary who? avaistheone1 Jun 2016 #28

Hillary Rodham Clinton, 45th President of the United States. MADem Jun 2016 #132

Obama beat Romney by fewer than five million votes. You want to spot Trump ten million? Jim Lane Jun 2016 #85

That number of which you speak grows smaller by the day. nt MADem Jun 2016 #119

Good.. coco77 Jun 2016 #112

That is your choice. You can sit on the sidelines of history, or you can tell your MADem Jun 2016 #123

You know this will be a hard one for me.. coco77 Jun 2016 #138

You own your vote, do what you must. MADem Jun 2016 #167

I'm beginning to see the hatred and spite as some kind of impetus... grasswire Jun 2016 #10

Who "bears the consequences" if Trump gets elected? qdouble Jun 2016 #15

It isn't Bernie voters who have allowed that possibility. grasswire Jun 2016 #19

After your candidate loses... qdouble Jun 2016 #27

No the problem is KULawHawk Jun 2016 #57

Trump IS the corrupt candidate. Lord Magus Jun 2016 #134

If Clinton runs a good campaign, she will win. If she doesn't, she will lose. Scootaloo Jun 2016 #60

I think that there's a 90% chance of Hillary winning... qdouble Jun 2016 #62

But that's exactly what you're doing Scootaloo Jun 2016 #63

Nope, not at all. qdouble Jun 2016 #64

But who said anything of the sort? Scootaloo Jun 2016 #70

If Hillary loses because a very large amount of Bernie voters don't vote for her qdouble Jun 2016 #73

Basically you're trying to have your cake and eat it. Kentonio Jun 2016 #79

Me contemplating a hypothetical situation doesn't mean that I believe Hillary will lose. qdouble Jun 2016 #81

It's your hypothetical scenario that is cowardly. Kentonio Jun 2016 #82

#1) I didn't vote for either Bernie or Hillary, as I said, I don't really care which one of them qdouble Jun 2016 #83

I don't think she'll lose. Kentonio Jun 2016 #86

We as a society get the candidates we deserve, not necessarily the best candidate. qdouble Jun 2016 #88

Why do we keep tolerating weak candidates though? Kentonio Jun 2016 #89

For one, we don't all agree on who or what makes a weak candidate qdouble Jun 2016 #90

People don't generally think the system is going to change overnight Kentonio Jun 2016 #108

There's always brewing dissatisfaction in politics... qdouble Jun 2016 #109

There have been great improvements in social progress. Kentonio Jun 2016 #110

Well some of Sanders success in funding I'll also put to technology qdouble Jun 2016 #113

Focusing purely on fearmongering about the GOP is not a positive route forward though. Kentonio Jun 2016 #124

Focusing on defeating the other side isn't just fear mongering, it's reality. qdouble Jun 2016 #135

Why is it so hard to understand? Kentonio Jun 2016 #141

When I moved I registered as an Independent... it doesn't mean that I'm not going to vote D. qdouble Jun 2016 #148

Zee chance, she is a fat, no? dchill Jun 2016 #14

Eh, the Democratic party will be better off without a bunch of young privileged malcontents Fumesucker Jun 2016 #17

k/r I applaud your effort at peacemaking. AtomicKitten Jun 2016 #20

I understand. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #24

Hillary Clinton IS the trainwreck. basselope Jun 2016 #31

They're smug. Smug, smug will tear us apart again. Juicy_Bellows Jun 2016 #22

This message was self-deleted by its author artislife Jun 2016 #72

We need a new order, lovemydog Jun 2016 #78

Clinton has reached out to Sanders supporters Buzz cook Jun 2016 #33

Like when she implied they were naive and lazy? Kentonio Jun 2016 #80

proving my point Buzz cook Jun 2016 #191

Proving your point, if your point was that she's tone deaf. Kentonio Jun 2016 #199

So in the internet world Buzz cook Jun 2016 #200

She didn't 'reach out to them', she insulted them. Kentonio Jun 2016 #206

Do we see this as reaching out? Miles Archer Jun 2016 #163

We might see this as reaching out Buzz cook Jun 2016 #192

I'm talking about what her husband said. Miles Archer Jun 2016 #194

Is he running? Buzz cook Jun 2016 #195

He's an active member of the Clinton campaign. Miles Archer Jun 2016 #196

Was this your direct question? Buzz cook Jun 2016 #197

Sorry, we're busy in our special place in hell looking for boys and free stuff (nt) jeff47 Jun 2016 #175

And there we have the instant Buzz cook Jun 2016 #193

You think it's possible to turn around a year of attacks in a day? jeff47 Jun 2016 #205

That's ok Buzz cook Jun 2016 #216

I don't get it Trenzalore Jun 2016 #35

It is a shame that some supporters of each candidate (Clinton and Sanders) have convinced themselves Tal Vez Jun 2016 #36

Hmmmmm......for me, the difference is that Hillary is for war and fracking and Third Way djean111 Jun 2016 #104

+1000 lmbradford Jun 2016 #181

I think they are still trying to figure out how to ban Bernie & his delegates from the convention. reformist2 Jun 2016 #40

Won't happen. elleng Jun 2016 #41

Don't you think the GOP trolls are just hard at work trying to make this as bitter applegrove Jun 2016 #44

I'm familiar with the term(Watergate happened when I was in junior high). Ken Burch Jun 2016 #56

Agreed. applegrove Jun 2016 #185

Said without even a trace of awareness at the irony n/t Scootaloo Jun 2016 #61

To win over Bernie supporters she's going to have to do a much better job of faking sincerity. n/t Binkie The Clown Jun 2016 #46

Bernie supporters in the real world are nothing like his crowd on DU. it will not be a problem nt msongs Jun 2016 #47

Hopefully, the same can be said of HRC supporters. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #67

In 2008 I was all for Obama MFM008 Jun 2016 #87

Probably because of the 22nd Amendment. Lord Magus Jun 2016 #139

How does the old saying go...? Ah yes. Jester Messiah Jun 2016 #168

Not gonna happen (nt) Ino Jun 2016 #65

well, I do believe that she thinks she can win without progressives by bbgrunt Jun 2016 #68

You're a good guy KB. lovemydog Jun 2016 #75

I'm am SICK of hearing that pointing out disastrous policy stance is tearing down a candidate. onecaliberal Jun 2016 #178

Well, no: she needs 51% of Pennsylvanians, Floridians, and Floridians Recursion Jun 2016 #94

hillary doesn't need every sanders supporters....she'll have 85-90% that matter beachbum bob Jun 2016 #97

Both our candidates are pledged to support the nominee. Orsino Jun 2016 #98

And you can believe Hillary on this because she has done it before. Bernie, on the other hand... Jitter65 Jun 2016 #116

That's a weird assertion. Orsino Jun 2016 #121

If she is the nominee, I'll vote for her because she is a woman Android3.14 Jun 2016 #100

I don't know if I want to be in a party composed of such people. Sky Masterson Jun 2016 #102

*WHEN* HRC IS nominated, every Sanders voter will HAVE to get behind her to ensure Trump loses. baldguy Jun 2016 #111

They think she can win without Bernie voters. Vinca Jun 2016 #115

She will need all Democrats. nt arely staircase Jun 2016 #122

I don't see it happening. Jester Messiah Jun 2016 #140

Same here.....they napalmed the bridge. yourout Jun 2016 #153

This thread is revisionist history. I've read hundreds of threads that call Hillary a "baby killer" Trust Buster Jun 2016 #146

Most of the scorching seems to be coming from Hillary-haters. Lord Magus Jun 2016 #147

IF?? You mean "when"?? DrDan Jun 2016 #150

Most of them already are behind her Tarc Jun 2016 #152

I saw a post yesterday... Miles Archer Jun 2016 #155

No she won't. Just the reasonable ones... NurseJackie Jun 2016 #156

How do you reason with people openly rooting for an indictment? You don't coddle delusions. CrowCityDem Jun 2016 #157

Discounting the Bernie Brigades at DU and REDDIT... brooklynite Jun 2016 #159

Way too late. jeff47 Jun 2016 #174

+1 jwirr Jun 2016 #189

+1 BlindTiresias Jun 2016 #211

I really think this is in the minds of bernie supporters. Everyone wants to unite MariaThinks Jun 2016 #176

How would Sanders have done it after some of his supporters have.... Adrahil Jun 2016 #177

That's not going to happen. Fly by night Jun 2016 #180

Well, now you know how it's felt being a Hillary Clinton supporter on the internet anigbrowl Jun 2016 #187

This! auntpurl Jun 2016 #209

HRC and Bernie JohnGray Jun 2016 #188

The lesson that the DNC should have learned with Nader and the 2000 election intheflow Jun 2016 #190

They will never do that. BlindTiresias Jun 2016 #213

Most will Stuckinthebush Jun 2016 #207

I think there is such a huge chance she will not win. Puglover Jun 2016 #208

Needless to say, Trump will get tens of millions of votes. There are many Marens to be sure. Garrett78 Jun 2016 #214

The first step should be the Berniestans Blue_Tires Jun 2016 #215

I appreciate what you are trying to do. Duval Jun 2016 #217

Well, it's doubtful she will get "every single" Bernie voter book_worm Jun 2016 #218

Watch the news, Ken. MineralMan Jun 2016 #220

"The Seeds... kadaholo Jun 2016 #221