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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
216. Some posters sound just like Barbara Bush.
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 09:48 PM
Jun 2016

"Why should we hear about body bags and death? I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?" -- Barbara Bush, March 18, 2003, on Good Morning America



Of course, there wasn't much follow up on that or her family, friends and cronies cashing in on all the resultant war. What else America missed:



The Rise of a ‘Democratic’ Fascism

Traditional fascism is defined as a right-wing political system run by a dictator who prohibits dissent and relies on repression. But some analysts believe a new form of fascism has arisen that has a democratic façade and is based on relentless propaganda and endless war, as journalist John Pilger describes.

By John Pilger
ConsortiumNews.com, March 2, 2015

The recent 70th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz was a reminder of the great crime of fascism, whose Nazi iconography is embedded in our consciousness. Fascism is preserved as history, as flickering footage of goose-stepping blackshirts, their criminality terrible and clear. Yet in the same liberal societies, whose war-making elites urge us never to forget, the accelerating danger of a modern kind of fascism is suppressed; for it is their fascism.

“To initiate a war of aggression…,” said the Nuremberg Tribunal judges in 1946, “is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.”

Had the Nazis not invaded Europe, Auschwitz and the Holocaust would not have happened. Had the United States and its satellites not initiated their war of aggression in Iraq in 2003, almost a million people would be alive today; and Islamic State, or ISIS, would not have us in thrall to its savagery. They are the progeny of modern fascism, weaned by the bombs, bloodbaths and lies that are the surreal theatre known as news.

Like the fascism of the 1930s and 1940s, big lies are delivered with the precision of a metronome: thanks to an omnipresent, repetitive media and its virulent censorship by omission. Take the catastrophe in Libya.

In 2011, Nato launched 9,700 “strike sorties” against Libya, of which more than a third were aimed at civilian targets. Uranium warheads were used; the cities of Misurata and Sirte were carpet-bombed. The Red Cross identified mass graves, and Unicef reported that “most [of the children killed] were under the age of ten.”

Gaddafi’s Torture/Lynching

The public sodomizing of the Libyan president Muammar Gaddafi with a “rebel” bayonet was greeted by the then U.S. Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, with the words: “We came, we saw, he died.” His murder, like the destruction of his country, was justified with a familiar big lie; he was planning “genocide” against his own people.

“We knew … that if we waited one more day,” said President Barack Obama, “Benghazi, a city the size of Charlotte, could suffer a massacre that would have reverberated across the region and stained the conscience of the world.”

This was the fabrication of Islamist militias facing defeat by Libyan government forces. They told Reuters there would be “a real bloodbath, a massacre like we saw in Rwanda.” Reported on March 14, 2011, the lie provided the first spark for NATO’s inferno, described by David Cameron as a “humanitarian intervention.”

Secretly supplied and trained by Britain’s SAS, many of the “rebels” would become ISIS, whose latest video offering shows the beheading of 21 Coptic Christian workers seized in Sirte, the city destroyed on their behalf by NATO bombers.

For Obama, Cameron and Hollande, Gaddafi’s true crime was Libya’s economic independence and his declared intention to stop selling Africa’s greatest oil reserves in U.S. dollars. The petrodollar is a pillar of American imperial power.

Gaddafi audaciously planned to underwrite a common African currency backed by gold, establish an all-Africa bank and promote economic union among poor countries with prized resources. Whether or not this would happen, the very notion was intolerable to the U.S. as it prepared to “enter” Africa and bribe African governments with military “partnerships.”

Following NATO’s attack under cover of a Security Council resolution, Obama, wrote Garikai Chengu, “confiscated $30 billion from Libya’s Central Bank, which Gaddafi had earmarked for the establishment of an African Central Bank and the African gold backed dinar currency.”

The Kosovo Model

The “humanitarian war” against Libya drew on a model close to western liberal hearts, especially in the media. In 1999, Bill Clinton and Tony Blair sent NATO to bomb Serbia, because, they lied, the Serbs were committing “genocide” against ethnic Albanians in the secessionist province of Kosovo.

David Scheffer, U.S. ambassador-at-large for war crimes [sic], claimed that as many as “225,000 ethnic Albanian men aged between 14 and 59″ might have been murdered. Both Clinton and Blair evoked the Holocaust and “the spirit of the Second World War.”

The West’s heroic allies were the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), whose criminal record was set aside. The British Foreign Secretary, Robin Cook, told them to call him any time on his mobile phone.

With the NATO bombing over, and much of Serbia’s infrastructure in ruins, along with schools, hospitals, monasteries and the national TV station, international forensic teams descended upon Kosovo to exhume evidence of the “holocaust.” The FBI failed to find a single mass grave and went home. The Spanish forensic team did the same, its leader angrily denouncing “a semantic pirouette by the war propaganda machines.”

A year later, a United Nations tribunal on Yugoslavia announced the final count of the dead in Kosovo: 2,788. This included combatants on both sides and Serbs and Roma murdered by the KLA. There was no genocide. The “holocaust” was a lie. The NATO attack had been fraudulent.

Expanding Markets

Behind the lie, there was serious purpose. Yugoslavia was a uniquely independent, multi-ethnic federation that had stood as a political and economic bridge in the Cold War. Most of its utilities and major manufacturing was publicly owned. This was not acceptable to the expanding European Community, especially newly united Germany, which had begun a drive east to capture its “natural market” in the Yugoslav provinces of Croatia and Slovenia.

By the time the Europeans met at Maastricht in 1991 to lay their plans for the disastrous eurozone, a secret deal had been struck; Germany would recognize Croatia. Yugoslavia was doomed.

In Washington, the U.S. saw that the struggling Yugoslav economy was denied World Bank loans. NATO, then an almost defunct Cold War relic, was reinvented as imperial enforcer. At a 1999 Kosovo “peace” conference in Rambouillet, in France, the Serbs were subjected to the enforcer’s duplicitous tactics.

The Rambouillet accord included a secret Annex B, which the U.S. delegation inserted on the last day. This demanded the military occupation of the whole of Yugoslavia — a country with bitter memories of the Nazi occupation — and the implementation of a “free-market economy” and the privatization of all government assets. No sovereign state could sign this. Punishment followed swiftly; NATO bombs fell on a defenseless country. It was the precursor to the catastrophes in Afghanistan and Iraq, Syria and Libya, and Ukraine.

American Interventions

Since 1945, more than a third of the membership of the United Nations – 69 countries – have suffered some or all of the following at the hands of America’s modern fascism. They have been invaded, their governments overthrown, their popular movements suppressed, their elections subverted, their people bombed and their economies stripped of all protection, their societies subjected to a crippling siege known as “sanctions.” The British historian Mark Curtis estimates the death toll in the millions. In every case, a big lie was deployed.

“Tonight, for the first time since 9/11, our combat mission in Afghanistan is over.” These were opening words of Obama’s 2015 State of the Union address. In fact, some 10,000 troops and 20,000 military contractors (mercenaries) remain in Afghanistan on indefinite assignment.

“The longest war in American history is coming to a responsible conclusion,” said Obama. In fact, more civilians were killed in Afghanistan in 2014 than in any year since the UN took records. The majority have been killed — civilians and soldiers — during Obama’s time as president.

The tragedy of Afghanistan rivals the epic crime in Indochina. In his lauded and much quoted book, The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives, Zbigniew Brzezinski, the godfather of U.S. policies from Afghanistan to the present day, writes that if America is to control Eurasia and dominate the world, it cannot sustain a popular democracy, because “the pursuit of power is not a goal that commands popular passion. . . . Democracy is inimical to imperial mobilization.” He is right.

As WikiLeaks and Edward Snowden have revealed, a surveillance and police state is usurping democracy. In 1976, Brzezinski, then President Jimmy Carter’s National Security Advisor, demonstrated his point by dealing a death blow to Afghanistan’s first and only democracy. Who knows this vital history?

Afghan’s Shining Moment

In the 1960s, a popular revolution swept Afghanistan, the poorest country on earth, eventually overthrowing the vestiges of the aristocratic regime in 1978. The People’s Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) formed a government and declared a reform program that included the abolition of feudalism, freedom for all religions, equal rights for women and social justice for the ethnic minorities. More than 13,000 political prisoners were freed and police files publicly burned.

The new government introduced free medical care for the poorest; peonage was abolished, a mass literacy programme was launched. For women, the gains were unheard of. By the late 1980s, half the university students were women, and women made up almost half of Afghanistan’s doctors, a third of civil servants and the majority of teachers.

“Every girl,” recalled Saira Noorani, a female surgeon, “could go to high school and university. We could go where we wanted and wear what we liked. We used to go to cafes and the cinema to see the latest Indian film on a Friday and listen to the latest music. It all started to go wrong when the mujaheddin started winning. They used to kill teachers and burn schools. We were terrified. It was funny and sad to think these were the people the West supported.”

The PDPA government was backed by the Soviet Union, even though, as former Secretary of State Cyrus Vance later admitted, “there was no evidence of any Soviet complicity [in the revolution].” Alarmed by the growing confidence of liberation movements throughout the world, Brzezinski decided that if Afghanistan was to succeed under the PDPA, its independence and progress would offer the “threat of a promising example.”

On July 3, 1979, the White House secretly authorized support for tribal “fundamentalist” groups known as the mujaheddin, a program that grew to over $500 million a year in U.S. arms and other assistance. The aim was the overthrow of Afghanistan’s first secular, reformist government.

In August 1979, the U.S. Embassy in Kabul reported that “the United States’ larger interests … would be served by the demise of [the PDPA government], despite whatever setbacks this might mean for future social and economic reforms in Afghanistan.” The italics are mine.

The mujaheddin were the forebears of al-Qaeda and Islamic State. They included Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, who received tens of millions of dollars in cash from the CIA. Hekmatyar’s specialty was trafficking in opium and throwing acid in the faces of women who refused to wear the veil. Invited to London, he was lauded by Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher as a “freedom fighter.”

Such fanatics might have remained in their tribal world had Brzezinski not launched an international movement to promote Islamic fundamentalism in Central Asia and so undermine secular political liberation and “destabilize” the Soviet Union, creating, as he wrote in his autobiography, “a few stirred up Muslims.”

His grand plan coincided with the ambitions of the Pakistani dictator, General Zia ul-Haq, to dominate the region. In 1986, the CIA and Pakistan’s intelligence agency, the ISI, began to recruit people from around the world to join the Afghan jihad. The Saudi multi-millionaire Osama bin Laden was one of them.

Operatives who would eventually join the Taliban and al-Qaeda, were recruited at an Islamic college in Brooklyn, New York, and given paramilitary training at a CIA camp in Virginia. This was called “Operation Cyclone.” Its success was celebrated in 1996 when the last PDPA president of Afghanistan, Mohammed Najibullah — who had gone before the UN General Assembly to plead for help — was hanged from a streetlight by the Taliban.

The “blowback” of Operation Cyclone and its “few stirred up Muslims” was September 11, 2001. Operation Cyclone became the “war on terror,” in which countless men, women and children would lose their lives across the Muslim world, from Afghanistan to Iraq, Yemen, Somalia and Syria. The enforcer’s message was and remains: “You are with us or against us.”

Threads of Fascism

[font size="5"][font color="red"]The common thread in fascism, past and present, is mass murder. [/font color][/font size]The American invasion of Vietnam had its “free fire zones,” “body counts” and “collateral damage.” In the province of Quang Ngai, where I reported from, many thousands of civilians (“gooks”) were murdered by the U.S.; yet only one massacre, at My Lai, is remembered.

In Laos and Cambodia, the greatest aerial bombardment in history produced an epoch of terror marked today by the spectacle of joined-up bomb craters which, from the air, resemble monstrous necklaces. The bombing gave Cambodia its own ISIS, led by Pol Pot.

Today, the world’s greatest single campaign of terror entails the execution of entire families, guests at weddings, mourners at funerals. These are Obama’s victims. According to the New York Times, Obama makes his selection from a CIA “kill list” presented to him every Tuesday in the White House Situation Room. He then decides, without a shred of legal justification, who will live and who will die. His execution weapon is the Hellfire missile carried by a pilotless aircraft known as a drone; these roast their victims and festoon the area with their remains. Each “hit” is registered on a faraway console screen as a “bugsplat.”

“For goose-steppers,” wrote the historian Norman Pollock, “substitute the seemingly more innocuous militarization of the total culture. And for the bombastic leader, we have the reformer manque, blithely at work, planning and executing assassination, smiling all the while.”

American Exceptionalism

Uniting fascism old and new is the cult of superiority. “I believe in American exceptionalism with every fiber of my being,” said Obama, evoking declarations of national fetishism from the 1930s.

As the historian Alfred W. McCoy has pointed out, it was the Hitler devotee, Carl Schmitt, who said, “The sovereign is he who decides the exception.” This sums up Americanism, the world’s dominant ideology. That it remains unrecognized as a predatory ideology is the achievement of an equally unrecognized brainwashing. Insidious, undeclared, presented wittily as enlightenment on the march, its conceit insinuates western culture.

I grew up on a cinematic diet of American glory, almost all of it a distortion. I had no idea that it was the Red Army that had destroyed most of the Nazi war machine, at a cost of as many as 13 million soldiers. By contrast, U.S. losses, including in the Pacific, were 400,000. Hollywood reversed this.

The difference now is that cinema audiences are invited to wring their hands at the “tragedy” of American psychopaths having to kill people in distant places — just as the President himself kills them. The embodiment of Hollywood’s violence, the actor and director Clint Eastwood, was nominated for an Oscar this year for his movie, American Sniper, which is about a licensed murderer and nutcase. The New York Times described it as a “patriotic, pro-family picture which broke all attendance records in its opening days.”

There are no heroic movies about America’s embrace of fascism. During the Second World War, America (and Britain) went to war against Greeks who had fought heroically against Nazism and were resisting the rise of Greek fascism. In 1967, the CIA helped bring to power a fascist military junta in Athens — as it did in Brazil and most of Latin America.

Germans and east Europeans who had colluded with Nazi aggression and crimes against humanity were given safe haven in the U.S.; many were pampered and their talents rewarded. Wernher von Braun was the “father” of both the Nazi V-2 terror bomb and the U.S. space program.

In the 1990s, as former Soviet republics, eastern Europe and the Balkans became military outposts of NATO, the heirs to a Nazi movement in Ukraine were given their opportunity. Responsible for the deaths of thousands of Jews, Poles and Russians during the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union, Ukrainian fascism was rehabilitated and its “new wave” hailed by the enforcer as “nationalists.”

The Ukraine Coup

This reached its apogee in 2014 when the Obama administration splashed out $5 billion on a coup against the elected government. The shock troops were neo-Nazis known as the Right Sector and Svoboda. Their leaders include Oleh Tyahnybok, who has called for a purge of the “Moscow-Jewish mafia” and “other scum,” including gays, feminists and those on the political left.

These fascists are now integrated into the Kiev coup government. The first deputy speaker of the Ukrainian parliament, Andriy Parubiy, a leader of the governing party, is co-founder of Svoboda. On Feb. 14, Parubiy announced he was flying to Washington to get “the USA to give us highly precise modern weaponry.” If he succeeds, it will be seen as an act of war by Russia.

No western leader has spoken up about the revival of fascism in the heart of Europe — with the exception of Vladimir Putin, whose people lost 22 million to a Nazi invasion that came through the borderland of Ukraine. At the recent Munich Security Conference, Obama’s Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, Victoria Nuland, ranted abuse about European leaders for opposing the U.S. arming of the Kiev regime. She referred to the German Defense Minister as “the minister for defeatism.”

It was Nuland who masterminded the coup in Kiev. The wife of Robert Kagan, a leading “neo-con” luminary who was a co-founder of the Project for the New American Century, which began pushing for the invasion of Iraq in 1998. She was a foreign policy adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney.

Nuland’s coup in Ukraine did not go to plan. NATO was prevented from seizing Russia’s historic, legitimate, warm-water naval base in Crimea. The mostly Russian population of Crimea — illegally annexed to Ukraine by Nikita Krushchev in 1954 — voted overwhelmingly to return to Russia, as they had done in the 1990s. The referendum was voluntary, popular and internationally observed. There was no invasion.

At the same time, the Kiev regime turned on the ethnic Russian population in the east with the ferocity of ethnic cleaning. Deploying neo-Nazi militias in the manner of the Waffen-SS, they bombed and laid to siege cities and towns. They used mass starvation as a weapon, cutting off electricity, freezing bank accounts, stopping social security and pensions.

More than a million refugees fled across the border into Russia. In the western media, they became unpeople escaping “the violence” caused by the “Russian invasion.” The NATO commander, General Breedlove — whose name and actions might have been inspired by Stanley Kubrick’s Dr. Strangelove — announced that 40,000 Russian troops were “massing.” In the age of forensic satellite evidence, he offered none.

Repressing Ethnic Russians

These Russian-speaking and bilingual people of Ukraine – a third of the population – have long sought a federation that reflects the country’s ethnic diversity and is both autonomous and independent of Moscow. Most are not “separatists” but citizens who want to live securely in their homeland and oppose the power grab in Kiev. Their revolt and establishment of autonomous “states” are a reaction to Kiev’s attacks on them. Little of this has been explained to western audiences.

On May 2, 2014, in Odessa, 41 ethnic Russians were burned alive in the trade union headquarters with police standing by. The Right Sector leader Dmytro Yarosh hailed the massacre as “another bright day in our national history.” In the American and British media, this was reported as a “murky tragedy” resulting from “clashes” between “nationalists” (neo-Nazis) and “separatists” (people collecting signatures for a referendum on a federal Ukraine).

The New York Times buried the story, having dismissed as Russian propaganda warnings about the fascist and anti-Semitic policies of Washington’s new clients. The Wall Street Journal damned the victims – “Deadly Ukraine Fire Likely Sparked by Rebels, Government Says.” Obama congratulated the junta for its “restraint.”

If Putin can be provoked into coming to their aid, his pre-ordained “pariah” role in the West will justify the lie that Russia is invading Ukraine. On Jan. 29, Ukraine’s top military commander, General Viktor Muzhemko, almost inadvertently dismissed the very basis for U.S. and EU sanctions on Russia when he told a news conference emphatically: “The Ukrainian army is not fighting with the regular units of the Russian Army.” There were “individual citizens” who were members of “illegal armed groups,” but there was no Russian invasion. This was not news.

Vadym Prystaiko, Kiev’s Deputy Foreign Minister, has called for “full scale war” with nuclear-armed Russia.

On Feb. 21, U.S. Sen. James Inhofe, a Republican from Oklahoma, introduced a bill that would authorize American arms for the Kiev regime. In his Senate presentation, Inhofe used photographs he claimed were of Russian troops crossing into Ukraine, which have long been exposed as fakes. It was reminiscent of Ronald Reagan’s fake pictures of a Soviet installation in Nicaragua, and Colin Powell’s fake evidence to the UN of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

The intensity of the smear campaign against Russia and the portrayal of its president as a pantomime villain is unlike anything I have known as a reporter. Robert Parry, one of America’s most distinguished investigative journalists, who revealed the Iran-Contra scandal, wrote recently, “No European government, since Adolf Hitler’s Germany, has seen fit to dispatch Nazi storm troopers to wage war on a domestic population, but the Kiev regime has and has done so knowingly. Yet across the West’s media/political spectrum, there has been a studious effort to cover up this reality even to the point of ignoring facts that have been well established. …

“If you wonder how the world could stumble into world war three – much as it did into world war one a century ago – all you need to do is look at the madness over Ukraine that has proved impervious to facts or reason.”

Nuremberg Lessons

In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal prosecutor said of the German media: “The use made by Nazi conspirators of psychological warfare is well known. Before each major aggression, with some few exceptions based on expediency, they initiated a press campaign calculated to weaken their victims and to prepare the German people psychologically for the attack. …

“In the propaganda system of the Hitler State it was the daily press and the radio that were the most important weapons.”

In the Guardian on Feb. 2, Timothy Garton-Ash, an Oxford professor, called, in effect, for a world war. “Putin must be stopped,” said the headline. “And sometimes only guns can stop guns.” He conceded that the threat of war might “nourish a Russian paranoia of encirclement”; but that was fine. He name-checked the military equipment needed for the job and advised his readers that “America has the best kit.”

In 2003, Garton-Ash repeated the propaganda that led to the slaughter in Iraq. Saddam Hussein, he wrote, “has, as [Colin] Powell documented, stockpiled large quantities of horrifying chemical and biological weapons, and is hiding what remains of them. He is still trying to get nuclear ones.” He lauded Blair as a “Gladstonian, Christian liberal interventionist.” In 2006, he wrote, “Now we face the next big test of the West after Iraq: Iran.”

The outbursts — or as Garton-Ash prefers, his “tortured liberal ambivalence” — are not untypical of those in the transatlantic liberal elite who have struck a Faustian deal. The war criminal Blair is their lost leader.

The Guardian, in which Garton-Ash’s piece appeared, published a full-page advertisement for an American Stealth bomber. On a menacing image of the Lockheed Martin monster were the words: “The F-35. GREAT For Britain.” This American “kit” will cost British taxpayers £1.3 billion, its F-model predecessors having slaughtered across the world. In tune with its advertiser, a Guardian editorial has demanded an increase in military spending.

Once again, there is serious purpose. The rulers of the world want Ukraine not only as a missile base; they want its economy. Kiev’s new Finance Minister, Natalie Jaresko, is a former senior U.S. State Department official who was hurriedly given Ukrainian citizenship.

They want Ukraine for its abundant gas; Vice President Joe Biden’s son is on the board of Ukraine’s biggest oil, gas and fracking company. The manufacturers of GM seeds, companies such as the infamous Monsanto, want Ukraine’s rich farming soil.

Above all, they want Ukraine’s mighty neighbor, Russia. They want to Balkanize or dismember Russia and exploit the greatest source of natural gas on earth. As the Arctic ice melts, they want control of the Arctic Ocean and its energy riches, and Russia’s long Arctic land border.

Their man in Moscow used to be Boris Yeltsin, a drunk, who handed his country’s economy to the West. His successor, Putin, has re-established Russia as a sovereign nation; that is his crime.

The responsibility of the rest of us is clear. It is to identify and expose the reckless lies of warmongers and never to collude with them. It is to re-awaken the great popular movements that brought a fragile civilization to modern imperial states. Most important, it is to prevent the conquest of ourselves: our minds, our humanity, our self respect. If we remain silent, victory over us is assured, and a holocaust beckons.

John Pilger is an Australian-British journalist based in London. Pilger’s Web site is: www.johnpilger.com

SOURCE: https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/02/the-rise-of-a-democratic-fascism/

NOTE: Robert Parry and ConsortiumNews allow DUers to post articles in their entirety. This excellent read is an example of why that kindness makes sense for those interested in democracy.

Thank you, JEB. I very much appreciate that you consider each human life infinitely more important than money.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Trash and ignore. nt BobbyDrake Jun 2016 #1
Yes, we know because she is perfect as we all well know and has never done wrong. LiberalArkie Jun 2016 #7
+100000! n/t 99th_Monkey Jun 2016 #24
Trump and this post SCantiGOP Jun 2016 #70
Absolutely right. randome Jun 2016 #73
The OP was primarily a rant against the horrors & waste of warfare 99th_Monkey Jun 2016 #84
No, it wasn't SCantiGOP Jun 2016 #86
Which makes her subsequent actions as a Secretary of State all the more questionable. Octafish Jun 2016 #89
They don't care about facts. Scuba Jun 2016 #115
Oh boy Octafish...I give you a lot of credit.. choie Jun 2016 #202
yes, and the sociopaths who push for it. Her worship is proud of that swhisper1 Jun 2016 #182
As she said, "war is a business opportunity" dflprincess Jun 2016 #215
wow, way to miss the point, holy cow! 2banon Jun 2016 #154
...!100++++ 840high Jun 2016 #131
La! La! La! La! Nah! Nah! Nah! Nah! MrMickeysMom Jun 2016 #113
Stick head in sand, bvar22 Jun 2016 #122
typical willful blindness AntiBank Jun 2016 #178
War for Profit *IS* mass murder! JonLeibowitz Jun 2016 #2
How Hillary Clinton Became a Hawk Octafish Jun 2016 #28
gotta love that bernie guy voting to pay for all this killing every year, year after year nt msongs Jun 2016 #3
Someone has to fund the soldiers Hillary voted to send to war. nt Live and Learn Jun 2016 #5
Sanders did more than that, he voted to keep the troops in Afghanistan still_one Jun 2016 #102
Ssssshhhh... MrWendel Jun 2016 #116
i'm sorry, I forgot about the TOS still_one Jun 2016 #118
4... MrWendel Jun 2016 #119
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!! still_one Jun 2016 #120
Yep, 4 more days till you can't post crap about Bernie. Good. nt Live and Learn Jun 2016 #135
More than 4 days... MrWendel Jun 2016 #159
What grief process is that? I am continuing to work on getting progressives elected Live and Learn Jun 2016 #160
And you can't see the difference between Iraq and Afghanistan? nt Live and Learn Jun 2016 #134
That is the most vile... tonedevil Jun 2016 #32
and Sanders voted to keep the troops in Afghanistan also. However, it isn't as vile as this OP who still_one Jun 2016 #103
Oh so let's politicize bathrooms but heaven forfend we speak @ this? riderinthestorm Jun 2016 #156
This message was self-deleted by its author floppyboo Jun 2016 #176
From my point of view, you are wrong. Now, immediately, is the time to politicize this floppyboo Jun 2016 #179
I agree with you completely, but unless Congress cooperates, it will be still_one Jun 2016 #184
Is that the only way a law can be changed? floppyboo Jun 2016 #185
Or get a Congressman to intorduce a bill floppyboo Jun 2016 #188
Right now the Democrats don't have the majority in both house of Congress, so I still_one Jun 2016 #192
with a bill you need Congress. The question is could he do an executive action? still_one Jun 2016 #190
War is mass murder on an epic scale. At least one candidate apparently doesn't get that. nt Live and Learn Jun 2016 #4
Remember Col. Westhusing Octafish Jun 2016 #36
Bernie kept the F-35 war machine alive workinclasszero Jun 2016 #6
You mean the onew that haven't been used. Betting Hillary will find a way to use them. nt Live and Learn Jun 2016 #10
Oh so its ok to build weapons of mass destruction and still remain holy as long as you don't workinclasszero Jun 2016 #15
Are you saying Hillary wouldn't want these? These were being built with or without Bernie, Live and Learn Jun 2016 #19
Jeebus, that is so ridiculous. Do you think we should not have a military? Vattel Jun 2016 #11
What do you plant with cluster munitions and depleted uranium? Scootaloo Jun 2016 #78
We do tend to lose sight of that, don't we? RobertEarl Jun 2016 #8
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. Octafish Jun 2016 #40
Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #9
OFFS. nt msanthrope Jun 2016 #12
You never did answer whether you were in the Judge Advocate General's Corps. Octafish Jun 2016 #21
That long NY Times Magazine article is excellent. Thanks. eom PufPuf23 Jun 2016 #33
When did you ask me that? nt msanthrope Jun 2016 #87
I can't find it now. I thought back when Charlie Hebdo suspect said Abu Ghraib made him attack. Octafish Jun 2016 #214
I've never worked as a prosecutor. nt msanthrope Jun 2016 #217
Really disappointed we can do it Jun 2016 #13
War is a Racket.'' -- Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler, USMC Octafish Jun 2016 #57
Using the occasion of hate crime for this is why I'm disappointed. we can do it Jun 2016 #79
It was either a hate crime or an act of terrorism. Octafish Jun 2016 #96
Bernie said he would continue to use drones. Just that he would do it better. i bet Obama felt the bettyellen Jun 2016 #100
Yes, that truly bothered me. Octafish Jun 2016 #126
It surprised me how rarely his supporters talk about that. bettyellen Jun 2016 #151
There's no comparison to what Sec. Clinton is reported to have done with drones. Octafish Jun 2016 #193
How are we supposed to talk about it, other than to condemn the illegal drone strikes Hydra Jun 2016 #219
War is legalized mass murder Hydra Jun 2016 #14
Thank you. Octafish Jun 2016 #168
How many wedding parties have we broken up with missiles? Downwinder Jun 2016 #16
Don't forget the double back to kill those that come to aid the wounded. JEB Jun 2016 #129
My momma use to always say "Turn tragedy into political opportunism before the bodies are identified qdouble Jun 2016 #17
You know who else understands that? Octafish Jun 2016 #23
It's not that I don't expect tragedies to become political issues... qdouble Jun 2016 #37
All good points, Octafish. Duval Jun 2016 #18
Remember when LA-MOCA had to whitewash its mural? Octafish Jun 2016 #170
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jun 2016 #20
do these two things really need to be compared - one being "worse" than the other? DrDan Jun 2016 #22
This is why ''comparisons are odious,'' as the poet said. Octafish Jun 2016 #43
This message was self-deleted by its author 6chars Jun 2016 #25
An attempt was made to censor this OP. senz Jun 2016 #26
Every day, innocent people die -- VICTIMS OF WAR Octafish Jun 2016 #195
As an LGBT person I just want to say..... MaggieD Jun 2016 #27
Classless. Opportunistic. NurseJackie Jun 2016 #31
So, do you think 500,000 dead Iraqi children is ''worth it''? Octafish Jun 2016 #38
Three more days MaggieD Jun 2016 #39
Three days. 72 hours. 0.42 Weeks. 0.09863 Months. 4320 Minutes. 259200 Seconds. * NurseJackie Jun 2016 #44
Ah, Clinton math MaggieD Jun 2016 #48
Are you really a nurse? Octafish Jun 2016 #49
Avert your eyes. Octafish Jun 2016 #46
I told you it was a waste of time to talk about these things. Rex Jun 2016 #88
Princess Weathervane's Ostrich Army to the rescue! Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #167
Just like Bernie, eh? MaggieD Jun 2016 #169
"tu quoque" Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #171
So it's okay if Bernie does it MaggieD Jun 2016 #172
"straw man" Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #177
Cuba head sanctions for longer. joshcryer Jun 2016 #83
Four more days... CorkySt.Clair Jun 2016 #52
The poster has a history of linking to homophobic conspiracy theorist writers... SidDithers Jun 2016 #92
Sickening MaggieD Jun 2016 #105
SidDithers of DU, a smear artist. Octafish Jun 2016 #173
Don Fulsom has written that Nixon was gay... SidDithers Jun 2016 #180
Is smearing by association your hobby? Octafish Jun 2016 #181
Madsen thinks Rubio is gay... SidDithers Jun 2016 #183
You never stop smearing. Octafish Jun 2016 #186
I don't like homophobes...nt SidDithers Jun 2016 #187
So why smear me? Octafish Jun 2016 #191
K&R -- for three more days of honest reporting. senz Jun 2016 #29
Tick tock ... Three more days! NurseJackie Jun 2016 #30
So in three days, she'll have had nothing to do with the Iraq war... Ned_Devine Jun 2016 #132
Democrats have spoken. Cope. NurseJackie Jun 2016 #136
Cope with all of those things I mentioned? Ned_Devine Jun 2016 #140
Tough shit. Pissed? Deal with it. NurseJackie Jun 2016 #148
Wow Ned_Devine Jun 2016 #150
I only "might be" the worst? NurseJackie Jun 2016 #152
Jury results edbermac Jun 2016 #157
Apparently in three days we're no longer allowed to question dflprincess Jun 2016 #218
Yeah, I don't knwo why Bernie voted for Afghanistan...bad decision Bernie. nt Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #34
He didn't vote to keep Afghanistan an open-ended quagmire. Octafish Jun 2016 #212
trashing nt Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #35
Kicked and recced!! eom Arazi Jun 2016 #41
If you were a decent caring person you would delete this post postatomic Jun 2016 #42
Yeah, because a few words on a computer screen may remind people not to kill one another in war. Octafish Jun 2016 #51
Yeah, like you really give a shit about people being killed postatomic Jun 2016 #66
Don't even pretend that you care notadmblnd Jun 2016 #209
+1...nt SidDithers Jun 2016 #93
One of the worst posts in DU history n/t gollygee Jun 2016 #45
What's worst? Trying to stop war or shaming someone who writes about it? Octafish Jun 2016 #54
A whole bunch of people just died gollygee Jun 2016 #55
Not meant that way at all. It is a post about war versus peace. Octafish Jun 2016 #58
At leazt bave tbe integrity to admit okasha Jun 2016 #91
Nowhere do I diminish the horror of the tragedy in Orlando. Octafish Jun 2016 #141
Of course you do. okasha Jun 2016 #144
Well, the OP does show empathy and concern for the dead and wounded zappaman Jun 2016 #147
And he doesn't get what's wrong with that. okasha Jun 2016 #149
People are touting gun control everywhere here... Duppers Jun 2016 #110
+ a million. A trifecta of being tasteless, tone deaf and absolutely disgusting Number23 Jun 2016 #130
I appreciate the thread and effort you always make, Octafish. Juicy_Bellows Jun 2016 #47
Wow, riffing the mass murder today, using it to attack Hillary Tarc Jun 2016 #50
Give it time. CorkySt.Clair Jun 2016 #53
Disgusting RandySF Jun 2016 #56
No kidding. Octafish Jun 2016 #61
Your OP is lower than low. RandySF Jun 2016 #71
I didn't order an illegal, immoral, unnecessary and disastrous invasion of Iraq. Octafish Jun 2016 #97
We shouldn't politicize this awful event Fumesucker Jun 2016 #59
Stay classy, Octafish of DU. Dr Hobbitstein Jun 2016 #60
Yeah. I'm trying to stop wars for profit and Dr Hobbitstein is pointing out my hypocrisy. Octafish Jun 2016 #64
You are disgusting. nt Dr Hobbitstein Jun 2016 #65
Never a comment on what I post, just personal remarks. Octafish Jun 2016 #67
I'm embarrassed by the neocons/warmongers in the Democratic Party icecreamfan Jun 2016 #62
It may be a case of the PNAC. Octafish Jun 2016 #69
Didn't Robert Kagan endorse Clinton? Is Kristol going to follow? icecreamfan Jun 2016 #75
Waves of Neocon Octafish Jun 2016 #81
Congrats on your new low! zappaman Jun 2016 #63
Really, zappaman: mass murder and illegal war are both wrong. Octafish Jun 2016 #74
nope, that isn't what he is saying. He is saying you are using the tragedy in Florida in a not so still_one Jun 2016 #101
Congratulations on yet another mindless comparison based on absolutely ... MrMickeysMom Jun 2016 #114
Inappropriate today. n/t Chan790 Jun 2016 #68
Couldn't even give those murdered one day of respect, I see... Spazito Jun 2016 #72
Yes its kind of like SwampG8r Jun 2016 #166
The face of the new progressive RandySF Jun 2016 #76
''Politics'' being how the wars just keep going and going, no matter who we elect. Octafish Jun 2016 #196
4 days MFM008 Jun 2016 #77
When will the wars end? Octafish Jun 2016 #99
Why would you try to minimize this hate crime... SidDithers Jun 2016 #80
Pointing out the hypocrisy of warmongers doesn't minimize anyone's death. Octafish Jun 2016 #85
This is another level of nastiness. joshcryer Jun 2016 #82
Why so hostile? Octafish Jun 2016 #95
A mass killing of gay people... joshcryer Jun 2016 #98
This thread? nt justiceischeap Jun 2016 #90
''What is absurd and monstrous about war... Octafish Jun 2016 #174
Wow. Tone deaf. JoePhilly Jun 2016 #94
Each human life is an irreplaceable treasure. Octafish Jun 2016 #175
Fascinating how a political primary changes people. gordianot Jun 2016 #104
The Unspeakable Octafish Jun 2016 #106
War is mass murder, I've taken a verbal beating for saying that here over the years. Rex Jun 2016 #108
''The world geography textbook that I teach out of... Octafish Jun 2016 #189
It was so sad, they already had the war down on paper for the new textbooks so we Rex Jun 2016 #208
Now I Understand jamese777 Jun 2016 #107
Nice wide brush. I don't claim to speak for anyone else. Octafish Jun 2016 #123
K&R for the original post and subsequent informative posts and links. JEB Jun 2016 #109
Some posters sound just like Barbara Bush. Octafish Jun 2016 #216
Oh my Tweety just had a thrill go up his leg! n/t doc03 Jun 2016 #111
Nothing personal... It's just business... MrMickeysMom Jun 2016 #112
Sorry I don't like this OP Armstead Jun 2016 #117
I don't either, but it's the business plan for our future. Octafish Jun 2016 #124
This message was self-deleted by its author sister_rosa_refried Jun 2016 #121
Great OP! Was thinking of this today: amborin Jun 2016 #125
DURec....for keeping it real. bvar22 Jun 2016 #127
War pigs think Jun 2016 #128
That same crowd partied during Dien Bien Phu. Octafish Jun 2016 #194
"War is the worst thing in the world, it kills MILLIONS of innocent people." cpwm17 Jun 2016 #133
How DARE you!!! I had friends wounded last night, and friends who lost loved ones ashtonelijah Jun 2016 #137
Please accept my sympathies. Octafish Jun 2016 #139
Bullshit. zappaman Jun 2016 #142
I wrote about my friend's brother on DU. Octafish Jun 2016 #143
K&R - Thank you Octafish CrawlingChaos Jun 2016 #138
SHAME ON YOU--YOU USE THIS HORRIBLE EVENT TO DISS THE PRESUMPTIVE DEMOCRATIC riversedge Jun 2016 #145
Shame is on me? Octafish Jun 2016 #165
You could not even wait a day or two. hrmjustin Jun 2016 #146
No. Every day more and more innocent people die from war. Octafish Jun 2016 #155
Outstanding post Octafish! 2banon Jun 2016 #153
*sob* yes, yes, yes. Nt riderinthestorm Jun 2016 #158
K&R! Pastiche423 Jun 2016 #161
K&R... disillusioned73 Jun 2016 #162
K&R Spot On! B Calm Jun 2016 #163
This is a great post!!! Nt Logical Jun 2016 #164
You suck for the timing of this post jcgoldie Jun 2016 #197
Embarrassing is seeing the wars go on, no matter who is President. Octafish Jun 2016 #204
three more days until addition by subtraction occurs geek tragedy Jun 2016 #198
Two things: One, there's never a good time to bring up the unspeakable. Octafish Jun 2016 #205
K&R#105 + bobthedrummer Jun 2016 #199
Your posts. CorkySt.Clair Jun 2016 #200
Why do you find war and mass murder funny, CorkySt.Clair? Octafish Jun 2016 #206
This message was self-deleted by its author CorkySt.Clair Jun 2016 #207
This is wildly misleading anigbrowl Jun 2016 #201
It must be a family thing, laughing at others' deaths. Octafish Jun 2016 #210
Beside the point anigbrowl Jun 2016 #223
Not as wildly misleading as your post defending Bush, a warmonger like his father and grandfather. Octafish Jun 2016 #225
Now you're just lying. anigbrowl Jun 2016 #226
Who's lying, anigbrowl? You wrote Bush really meant something other than making money off war... Octafish Jun 2016 #227
Shouldn't the goal be to do everything we can to defeat Trump? lapucelle Jun 2016 #203
That is one goal, certainly. I'd also like to defeat Republicanism. Octafish Jun 2016 #211
War is evil no matter who is doing the waging of it. arikara Jun 2016 #222
K & R AzDar Jun 2016 #213
Prepare for what's ahead. Octafish Jul 2016 #228
All Wars are for profit. Whimsey Jun 2016 #220
Are you under the impression that Sanders is a pacifist who will pull back all US troops? brooklynite Jun 2016 #221
I'm under the impression that he won't create new wars John Poet Jun 2016 #224
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