Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: I was here in 2008. I supported Obama. But I don't recall being told that there could be [View all]JTFrog
(14,274 posts)109. How is it different?
This is what he said about this election season:
What criticism of Hillary Clinton will be permitted? (link)
Unfortunately, there is not going to be a hard line between "fine" and "not fine."
But basically, I think it comes down to this:
If you are criticizing Hillary Clinton because you want to help her succeed, then you'll be fine. But if you are criticizing Hillary Clinton because you want to tear her down, then you won't be fine.
Now, I'm not a mind reader and I can't know for certain what everyone's intentions are. But I think that if the criticism is coming from a place of "wanting her to succeed" then that will be reflected in the tone and substance of the post. If the criticism is coming from a place of "wanting to tear her down" then that will be reflected in the tone and substance of the post. If you are here on DU then you are supposed to be supporting the Democratic nominee against the Republican nominee in the general election -- it shouldn't be very hard to write a post in a way that sounds like it.
I believe that it will be possible to discuss every substantive issue that DUers might want to discuss.
Unfortunately, there is not going to be a hard line between "fine" and "not fine."
But basically, I think it comes down to this:
If you are criticizing Hillary Clinton because you want to help her succeed, then you'll be fine. But if you are criticizing Hillary Clinton because you want to tear her down, then you won't be fine.
Now, I'm not a mind reader and I can't know for certain what everyone's intentions are. But I think that if the criticism is coming from a place of "wanting her to succeed" then that will be reflected in the tone and substance of the post. If the criticism is coming from a place of "wanting to tear her down" then that will be reflected in the tone and substance of the post. If you are here on DU then you are supposed to be supporting the Democratic nominee against the Republican nominee in the general election -- it shouldn't be very hard to write a post in a way that sounds like it.
I believe that it will be possible to discuss every substantive issue that DUers might want to discuss.
I think his 2008 post about constructive criticism should be revisited as well.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tgdoyHvB-xcJ:journals.democraticunderground.com/Skinner/264+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
A thought about context and the constructiveness of criticism.
Posted by Skinner in General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009)
Wed Jul 02nd 2008, 08:59 AM
Since the FISA and faith-based stories have been in the news, there has been a lot of discussion about whether (and how) members should be permitted to criticize Barack Obama, our presumptive presidential nominee. I'm not going to get into the gritty details of enforcement, or what is-or-isn't permitted, because that is not the purpose of this post. The purpose of this post is merely to make an observation about criticism, and the context in which it is offered.
If someone offers criticism of Barack Obama, I find that the criticism is easier to accept if the speaker has already sufficiently demonstrated their support for Senator Obama's candidacy.
Put another way: If you want to be taken seriously, it helps to prove your bona-fides.
To be clear: I'm not speaking as a DU Administrator here. My purpose is merely to offer some helpful insight to those of you who don't seem to understand why you are not showered with rose petals when you offer your special brand of constructive criticism here on DU. Allow me to explain.
If you have spent the last six-to-twelve months trashing Senator Obama here on DU, and since the primaries ended you have not given any credible indication that you are now a supporter of his campaign, then if you post a thread about how you are incredibly disappointed in him because {insert reason here}, people are likely to wonder about your motivations and conclude that you are still trying to derail his campaign.
I'm not saying they're right. I'm not saying it's fair. What I am saying is that it is virtually inevitable.
So, if you want to be taken seriously -- if you want your constructive criticism to be accepted as constructive -- I humbly suggest that you put some effort into demonstrating that you actually want our guy to win this thing.
A thought about context and the constructiveness of criticism.
Posted by Skinner in General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009)
Wed Jul 02nd 2008, 08:59 AM
Since the FISA and faith-based stories have been in the news, there has been a lot of discussion about whether (and how) members should be permitted to criticize Barack Obama, our presumptive presidential nominee. I'm not going to get into the gritty details of enforcement, or what is-or-isn't permitted, because that is not the purpose of this post. The purpose of this post is merely to make an observation about criticism, and the context in which it is offered.
If someone offers criticism of Barack Obama, I find that the criticism is easier to accept if the speaker has already sufficiently demonstrated their support for Senator Obama's candidacy.
Put another way: If you want to be taken seriously, it helps to prove your bona-fides.
To be clear: I'm not speaking as a DU Administrator here. My purpose is merely to offer some helpful insight to those of you who don't seem to understand why you are not showered with rose petals when you offer your special brand of constructive criticism here on DU. Allow me to explain.
If you have spent the last six-to-twelve months trashing Senator Obama here on DU, and since the primaries ended you have not given any credible indication that you are now a supporter of his campaign, then if you post a thread about how you are incredibly disappointed in him because {insert reason here}, people are likely to wonder about your motivations and conclude that you are still trying to derail his campaign.
I'm not saying they're right. I'm not saying it's fair. What I am saying is that it is virtually inevitable.
So, if you want to be taken seriously -- if you want your constructive criticism to be accepted as constructive -- I humbly suggest that you put some effort into demonstrating that you actually want our guy to win this thing.
Cannot edit, recommend, or reply in locked discussions
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
181 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations

I was here in 2008. I supported Obama. But I don't recall being told that there could be [View all]
jillan
Jun 2016
OP
I really resent people telling me, a 60 year old woman who has voted dem in every election
jillan
Jun 2016
#8
I resent that there was all this excitement about there being the 1st black president but none about
kerry-is-my-prez
Jun 2016
#110
There are lots of young women (and old women) and young girls for whom this is an important
MADem
Jun 2016
#113
Well, he wouldn't have been--the first Jew, that is--to compete for the office, at any rate.
MADem
Jun 2016
#152
Very disappointing , but very predictable...considering the demographic profile of the "unexcited".
Surya Gayatri
Jun 2016
#145
Oh, you have said plenty over the past year. Do you think our memories are that short? nt
Live and Learn
Jun 2016
#41
You've done much worse than that. And I do consider supporting Hillary pretty bad. nt
Live and Learn
Jun 2016
#47
Never said she wasn't. Presumptive being the key word. You do know what it means? nt
Live and Learn
Jun 2016
#138
Yes--and it means what it meant when we ascribed it to POTUS Obama, and John Kerry and Al Gore and
MADem
Jun 2016
#148
I really don't have anytime to spare for you. Especially in light of the fact that I won't even be
Live and Learn
Jun 2016
#94
Maybe you just can't see it when you do it. You certainly blame others for it when they aren't
Live and Learn
Jun 2016
#119
You can tell me all you want, but I just don't do it, and that 'simple search' could have been done
MADem
Jun 2016
#126
No, no difference. And I'm not a teacher--obviously you confuse me with someone else.
MADem
Jun 2016
#149
Maybe it is just coming down to the wire and people are processing not just the loss
AgadorSparticus
Jun 2016
#111
no it goes this way if you don't vote for Hillary then you're not a Democrat or a liberal
azurnoir
Jun 2016
#25
One person used the term corporate whore - the physician who helped write the ACA & he
jillan
Jun 2016
#46
I recall many here calling Mitt a corporate whore and yet no complaints.
Live and Learn
Jun 2016
#72
LOl. Never thought I'd see the day. Sanders and his supporters are not Democrat enough
notadmblnd
Jun 2016
#18
I may be bitter and angry. I can admit that and I can state many reasons why
notadmblnd
Jun 2016
#32
Because those who love the status quo know that Bernie started something that isn't over yet:
Betty Karlson
Jun 2016
#45
I don't know where or why you accuse me of that. I'm happy this nightmare is ending.
MADem
Jun 2016
#50
Same here. I was a Clinton supporter. It stung to lose, but after a break, I got back with it.
Lyric
Jun 2016
#157
Anything suggesting that he should lose or in favor of an alternative movement was quashed.
Zynx
Jun 2016
#7
Thanks for this. There goes another conspiracy theory of things being different back then.
grossproffit
Jun 2016
#13
Thanks for this - but it is different. We were allowed to criticize Obama back then -
jillan
Jun 2016
#31
I suggest you seek clarification in ATA. I think the guidelines are essentially the same.
MADem
Jun 2016
#52
The attacks against her have, on average, been far worse than what was said about Lieberman.
Zynx
Jun 2016
#16
Obama never had anything to criticize, policy-wise, going into the nomination
KeepItReal
Jun 2016
#56
Well, I've certainly been banned (unjustly, I believe) from the Obama room.
PatrickforO
Jun 2016
#96
Not really. There was no rule against being critical of his policies. Being critical of stated
Bluenorthwest
Jun 2016
#161
You sure do like to throw your little rule hammers around. It's my understanding that Clinton
w4rma
Jun 2016
#156
I don't think adhering to a system you agreed to when you joined is "throwing little rule hammers ar
LanternWaste
Jun 2016
#179
I was here. I remember Skinner's carefully worded missive that constructive criticism
LanternWaste
Jun 2016
#175