2016 Postmortem

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)

4. An assumption

Fri Dec 2, 2016, 11:45 AM

Dec 2016

Green voters would have voted, and would have voted for Clinton, if Stein had not run. Remember, the Greens would have run somebody, or a similar third party effort would have been made. Gary Johnson may have tilted things, as well. To say someone spoiled our effort is simplistic, and diverts attention from what we need to do to elect more Democrats.

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Jill Stein spoiled the 2016 election for Hillary Clinton [View all] DonViejo Dec 2016 OP

Many of them are liberal isolationists. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #1

Let's take the politicial spectrum into the third dimension and just call them "the bottom." BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #2

Why not just call them Deplorables? That worked so well the last time ! pangaia Dec 2016 #58

They shouldn't have had a like-minded candidate in our Democratic primary. yallerdawg Dec 2016 #18

Not in "our primary". NCTraveler Dec 2016 #19

No "liberal isolationist" won the primary up there? yallerdawg Dec 2016 #23

Stein and her recount RoccoR2 Dec 2016 #3

An assumption HassleCat Dec 2016 #4

Thank you dragonfly301 Dec 2016 #34

I think it is relevant, because many of them will be running to the polls to vote D next time. BzaDem Dec 2016 #42

I guess they showed us, then, huh? MineralMan Dec 2016 #5

What kind of idiots voted for Stein? Angry supporters of some primary also ran? nt LexVegas Dec 2016 #6

That certainly describes a lot of them samir.g Dec 2016 #49

Which is why she's doing the recounts. She doesn't want to be labeled the next Nader brush Dec 2016 #7

add self-promotion & filling her coffer$ n/t RoccoR2 Dec 2016 #9

That too. brush Dec 2016 #13

Hillary cannot fail; she can only be failed by others. Larkspur Dec 2016 #8

There is plenty of blame to go around. Also a lot of success to look at. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #17

In WI Stein lost half her polling points to Trump per RCP's aggregate. ucrdem Dec 2016 #10

And these recounts will just reinforce that BigBadDem Dec 2016 #11

How about Hillary Clinton spoiled the election for Bernie Sanders? mnhtnbb Dec 2016 #12

This for the love of God nt retrowire Dec 2016 #21

Yes snpsmom Dec 2016 #29

Agreed! denvine Dec 2016 #35

By winning the primary? BzaDem Dec 2016 #43

So pissed....n/t asuhornets Dec 2016 #14

How many Stein voters would have stayed home if Stein wasn't in the race? davidn3600 Dec 2016 #15

There would have been another Green Party candidate for them to vote for. progressoid Dec 2016 #31

If this is true, then the Democratic Party needs to figure out a way to attract more Green voters. jalan48 Dec 2016 #16

Naw, it's more fun to trash them for their disloyalty. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #28

That'll bring em back... ybbor Dec 2016 #39

We've seen they don't WANT them back.... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #46

Not really. Trump will do that quite nicely on his own. They will mostly be running back next time. BzaDem Dec 2016 #44

I see. It's not the Party that needs to change, it's the voters. jalan48 Dec 2016 #47

I don't know what you mean by "needs to change." I am saying that the voters WILL change. BzaDem Dec 2016 #50

She got lots of these voters this time around. She just didn't get all of them. jalan48 Dec 2016 #55

I'm just talking about people who voted for Jill Stein, which she didn't get any of by definition. BzaDem Dec 2016 #56

You could well be right because of Trump winning. But after the 2020 election then what? jalan48 Dec 2016 #57

Please. No. They are of no benefit to the Democratic party, except being spoilers..n/t asuhornets Dec 2016 #51

Then don't complain about them spoiling the election for Hillary. It's really that simple. jalan48 Dec 2016 #52

no it is not that simple. jill stein and her supporters gave us trump...but i digress...nt asuhornets Dec 2016 #62

Well, not really. Hillary gave us Trump. She was his main opposition. jalan48 Dec 2016 #64

Hillary was the main opposition to Bernie supporters and the Green party.nt asuhornets Dec 2016 #66

Hillary got beat by a joke GummyBearz Dec 2016 #68

The most experienced person to ever run for Prsident was a joke according to you? n/t asuhornets Dec 2016 #69

What do you call trump? GummyBearz Dec 2016 #71

The people that voted for Trump or Stein or not at all were the big jokes. asuhornets Dec 2016 #72

Among all those jokers, she couldn't convince a few to vote for her? GummyBearz Dec 2016 #73

80,000 votes in three states was the difference. In one state Hillary lost by 10,000+ votes, asuhornets Dec 2016 #74

Apparently you are wrong GummyBearz Dec 2016 #75

She did lose to Trump because of the reasons I stated....nt asuhornets Dec 2016 #77

Yet the majority of Bernie supporters supported Hillary... Docreed2003 Dec 2016 #78

I agree. It will take time. But I agree we need to move forward. Feelings are still raw. nt asuhornets Dec 2016 #79

No doubt feelings are still raw... Docreed2003 Dec 2016 #80

I just hope it does bring progressives together to win in 2018 and beyond. nt asuhornets Dec 2016 #81

She won round one and lost round two, maybe. jalan48 Dec 2016 #83

Trump is the President now. Recount will not change that...n/t asuhornets Dec 2016 #84

Well, that's that then, she lost. Time to move on and work on 2018. jalan48 Dec 2016 #85

I agree...but asuhornets Dec 2016 #87

I was too about Bernie but I've decided to let it go. jalan48 Dec 2016 #90

Count me in...n/t asuhornets Dec 2016 #91

Yay more "blame game" posts. retrowire Dec 2016 #20

That is assuming more Stein voters would have... mwooldri Dec 2016 #22

well, of course they were more similarly aligned to Hillary than Gary Johnson Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #25

Oh, good thing next election we'll have no 3rd party candidates nor 3rd party voters yodermon Dec 2016 #24

It may be the case, but MarvinGardens Dec 2016 #26

Blame everyone else. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #27

What were the voter turnouts in those states? Retrograde Dec 2016 #30

Stein's anti-Hillary ads IN SWING STATES helped depress Dem votes. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #33

And Perot if you want to include the other side. Joe941 Dec 2016 #37

Perot's impact was neutral, since he actually took votes evenly from both sides. nt SunSeeker Dec 2016 #67

+1 RoccoR2 Dec 2016 #38

Yep. nt SunSeeker Dec 2016 #32

Stein's supporters were never going to vote Clinton even if Stein wasn't in the race-they are scum. Joe941 Dec 2016 #36

I certainly agree to an extent. RAFisher Dec 2016 #40

Sorry, but that does not logically follow. There is no reason to assume the majority... PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #41

Johnson drew more votes, and from Republicans nt NRQ891 Dec 2016 #45

Moneyball politics spoiled the 2016 election for Hillary Clinton That Guy 888 Dec 2016 #48

Excellent analysis Devil Child Dec 2016 #54

Agree Kathy M Dec 2016 #60

Its not just party leadership keeping their heads in the sand GummyBearz Dec 2016 #70

Correct Devil Child Dec 2016 #89

Which is why I do not think that greens should be participating in Democratic primaries Gothmog Dec 2016 #53

F*ck Nader!!! yeah, not. nobody owes dems their vote, and counting on the competition to TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #59

I pulled up a map from 1992 election .... Yes things change, people move , events happen Kathy M Dec 2016 #61

You mean it's not a huge conspiracy? MichMan Dec 2016 #63

Perhaps Michigan, but there's no way enough Stein voters would have voted Hillary jfern Dec 2016 #65

I think Clinton losing might have spoiled the election for her. David__77 Dec 2016 #76

I beg to disagree, it was not Jill Stein, it was the Johnson guy! akbacchus_BC Dec 2016 #82

Absolutely agree. He got the populists that didn't like tRump. JudyM Dec 2016 #86

Adding to what you said noamnety Dec 2016 #92

Someone ought to figure out how she could throw her votes over to Clinton now; drop out after-the- JudyM Dec 2016 #88

It's not her place to cast other people's votes for them. noamnety Dec 2016 #93

I heard a pundit last Sunday call Stien's re-count akin to going into your neighbor's house, and NRQ891 Dec 2016 #94