2016 Postmortem

Orrex

(65,760 posts)

111. Again, I'm concerned that Sanders has no track record with this

Tue Dec 15, 2015, 11:00 AM

Dec 2015

And it would be a mistake to imagine that the GOP hasn't gone after him simply because they can't or won't.

"Socialist" is only the most obvious point of attack. They'll go after his age, his "liberal voting record," his geography, his flip-flop from Independent to nominal Democrat, his accent, his perceived hot-headedness, his lack of foreign policy experience, etc. And they will certainly imply that he's not a "real American" because he's Jewish, even if they don't state it explicitly in press releases.

That's just a few off the top of my head. Imagine what a billion-dollar propaganda team will come up with. Is Sanders prepared for that? I'm not so sure.

The dislike many non-Dems have for HRC is visceral, deep-seated and long-lasting in a way that goes beyond what I think could be created in a single brief campaign.

and

Sanders gives them less ammunition and isn't starting from a point of 55% unfavorables.

Just about everyone who dislikes Clinton dislikes her already, so this is a known factor. Sanders is still nearly anonymous: I have adult coworkers who, when asked, will reply that the Democratic race is between "Clinton and, wait, who's that other one?" This is still a real problem, admittedly made worse by the media's blackout on Sanders. If he goes from semi-anonymous to "visible only as the GOP portrays him," then they'll destroy him before the first Presidential debate, and he'll be playing catch-up with a psychotic GOP racist before the campaign even begins.

Let me state again that I will happily vote for Sanders if he winds up on the ticket, but I see no value in overstating his chances as some are doing.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

242 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Sanders says hes on verge of pulling off major political upset [View all] FreakinDJ Dec 2015 OP

"IF" is the important quote here. FloridaBlues Dec 2015 #1

Really just Iowa/NH, national polling doesn't really matter right now pengu Dec 2015 #13

IF VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #22

IF cosmicone Dec 2015 #101

then Bob's your Uncle! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #103

he who laughs last laughs best. go bernie. :D roguevalley Dec 2015 #133

Yeah and boy howdy do I LOVE VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #134

Why? Her laugh makes me cringe! Fawke Em Dec 2015 #192

Haunted House's use it at Holloween. bahrbearian Dec 2015 #206

oh my! Hiraeth Dec 2015 #212

And PLEASE.... Plucketeer Dec 2015 #216

I especially enjoyed her laugh when Hill was talking about killing that Libyan guy! ish of the hammer Dec 2015 #225

I will love it even more... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #230

I hope you are wrong in your belief that Clinton will be president ish of the hammer Dec 2015 #235

You can hope she loses all you want... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #236

welfare "reform", mass incarceration, Glass -Steagall repeal, - supported by Hillary and ish of the hammer Dec 2015 #237

really now? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #238

I'm impressed. you're a really fast! ish of the hammer Dec 2015 #239

Yes I am.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #240

so what's a self-respecting democrat? still not seeing an answer. ish of the hammer Dec 2015 #241

Can't stand her laugh. Worse than chalk 840high Dec 2015 #226

And if you'd have had floriduck Dec 2015 #158

Book it, Danno.nm floriduck Dec 2015 #156

Bernie Sanders is doing much better on the favorabilty question INdemo Dec 2015 #51

Another H.A. Goodman prediction. ha ha. He reminds me of baghdad bob. riversedge Dec 2015 #98

Did you read the article? INdemo Dec 2015 #104

Of course not. Phlem Dec 2015 #143

Yep you are correct INdemo Dec 2015 #159

Of course not. They like to pretend the author has no credibility because he changed his mind once. Bubzer Dec 2015 #144

Both Iowa and New Hampshire are not representative demographically of key Democratic states Gothmog Dec 2015 #183

He'll go splat okasha Dec 2015 #220

Bernie is the real deal madokie Dec 2015 #2

"Real deal" is a perfectly meaningless phrase. okasha Dec 2015 #222

"...perfectly meaningless"? chervilant Dec 2015 #229

If he does he STILL won't have a clear path through South Carolina, where Hillary is ahead pnwmom Dec 2015 #3

If he does they won't be able to black him out anymore AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #58

They won't be skyrocketing once the GOP starts the new birther story. pnwmom Dec 2015 #60

Nobody cares what they say AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #65

yeah right. His supporters are always arguing that he'll get more votes from pnwmom Dec 2015 #68

Republicans preach to their idiotic choir AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #70

I think moderate Republican women, in the Susan Collins mold, pnwmom Dec 2015 #72

She will garner very few crossover votes AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #75

The baby boomer women I know are excited about her pnwmom Dec 2015 #77

Baby boomers are old people AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #80

People 50 and older are solid voters, unlike millennials. pnwmom Dec 2015 #84

Well then you just hang your hopes on that sliver of demographic AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #90

Yeah, and you can keep hoping those gun-toting Independents pnwmom Dec 2015 #92

I see how ya'll operate. Phlem Dec 2015 #145

Right. But the OP doesn't "shove the Bern in everyone's face" ? pnwmom Dec 2015 #165

Oh Noes!!!! Phlem Dec 2015 #169

Right, Independents are gun toting minutemen AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #207

"Meanwhile the rest of the planet will vote Sanders" NCTraveler Dec 2015 #124

Ahhh Phlem Dec 2015 #146

Excuse me, without the younger voters (any demo less than 44), we would have Pres. Romney JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #117

Dems need all the demographics to win. wildeyed Dec 2015 #122

You are just as responsible for your demographic not voting pnwmom Dec 2015 #168

Younger voters might not vote as reliably, but older voters who do are more reliably GOP JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #174

Do you not see that if enough over 50's didn't vote for Obama pnwmom Dec 2015 #178

Of course I see that. But you are casting younger voters as unreliable. JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #184

No, that they have a history of not voting in high numbers. pnwmom Dec 2015 #186

61+, white female, college educated, Karma13612 Dec 2015 #214

Baby boomer woman snpsmom Dec 2015 #102

Same here. Any others around here? libdem4life Dec 2015 #128

Here. appalachiablue Dec 2015 #139

Roger Wilco... bullsnarfle Dec 2015 #140

Me, too. Age 65. Feeling the Bern. nt tblue37 Dec 2015 #200

Here n/t Michigan-Arizona Dec 2015 #204

Here. Hiraeth Dec 2015 #215

Over-50 female here ... Autumn Colors Dec 2015 #136

It's the "Shoulder Pad" crowd floriduck Dec 2015 #161

Do you know any? wildeyed Dec 2015 #121

I don't suppose it would help matters to point out that Sanders is a SINO (Socialist KingCharlemagne Dec 2015 #152

Not to my MIL. wildeyed Dec 2015 #180

I'm over 70 and female. Paka Dec 2015 #203

Sorry, they will vote for Carly Fiorina. At least the ones I know have told me so. Hiraeth Dec 2015 #213

Fiorina has almost zero chance of being the nominee. So then what? nt pnwmom Dec 2015 #217

They will hold their nose and vote for the GOP nominee is my guess but, I will ask them Hiraeth Dec 2015 #219

20% of Republicans are going to vote for a socialist? mythology Dec 2015 #126

Watch Sanders speech at Liberty U AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #208

Sanders would get virtually no cross over support from GOP Gothmog Dec 2015 #185

False. Fawke Em Dec 2015 #193

Do you have a reliable link for this claim? Gothmog Dec 2015 #194

25% of the Republican vote in Vermont. Ed Suspicious Dec 2015 #227

related Ed Suspicious Dec 2015 #228

Focused upon the big picture (defeating the GOP), Sanders is the better choice because sorechasm Dec 2015 #4

National polls showing who's beating who this far out are meaningless. upaloopa Dec 2015 #6

"Socialist raise taxes for free stuff" MannyGoldstein Dec 2015 #10

He's not going to raise taxes? He's not a Socialist? upaloopa Dec 2015 #24

Those Commies want free defense, police, firefighting, sewers, roads... MannyGoldstein Dec 2015 #42

Roads are paid for with the gas tax. I get a water/sewer bill every month redstateblues Dec 2015 #108

The gas tax doesn't even come close to paying for roads.. Kentonio Dec 2015 #110

Finally, someone to make the 1% accountable by using a small transaction tax on Wall DhhD Dec 2015 #56

Presidents don't make tax policy. Congress does. We have a repub Congress upaloopa Dec 2015 #59

Either Dem will likely start with an uncooperative Congress. thesquanderer Dec 2015 #71

A small transaction tax on Wall street will barely begin to pay for all the things pnwmom Dec 2015 #63

It will be cheaper than what we have now AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #69

What will be cheaper? That tax won't provide nearly enough. pnwmom Dec 2015 #74

Waaaaay cheaper AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #76

delete dupe pnwmom Dec 2015 #63

Not free. Paid for. AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #61

I think you mean drink the kool-aid. Just go with the authoritarian leadership of the billionaires. rhett o rick Dec 2015 #196

His numbers for the General are better than Hillary's. Motown_Johnny Dec 2015 #16

Bunk.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #25

Let them try, unlike Hillary he'll proudly take them on from his well established positions.... daleanime Dec 2015 #44

Yep. he would take them on, and spend all his time . ... PosterChild Dec 2015 #209

Oh no, a politician who actually talks.... daleanime Dec 2015 #223

ideologies are not the details of governance .... PosterChild Dec 2015 #232

So the US isn't a socialist nation? daleanime Dec 2015 #233

MY concerns? No, the concerns... PosterChild Dec 2015 #242

Bunk... thesquanderer Dec 2015 #89

they have TRIED to rip her to shreds her entire career VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #93

Well that shifts the argument a bit thesquanderer Dec 2015 #99

Just like the ripped Obama apart for being a communistsocialistmuslimeamericahater. And of course, Indepatriot Dec 2015 #181

they have NEVER been extra nice to Clinton VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #187

She's still standing alright, both feet firmly planted on WALL STREET.... Indepatriot Dec 2015 #224

And soon both feet planted on Pennsyvannia Avenue! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #231

That is one of the few things you all hang your hat on. He isn't going to ever be in the upaloopa Dec 2015 #28

But you just say that you do.... daleanime Dec 2015 #46

You cannot expect me to believe that, do you? n/t RoccoR5955 Dec 2015 #55

Dude. They will say anything. Just like Republicans. Phlem Dec 2015 #149

I don't call it "Third Way," RoccoR5955 Dec 2015 #175

Even better my friend. Phlem Dec 2015 #177

and who is this "Turd Way" you describe VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #188

Why not..... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #189

That's largely because the GOP has completely ignored Sanders so far Orrex Dec 2015 #38

Lol @ the 'Mighty GOP' and their nonsense talking points unleashed AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #73

Keep telling yourself that, and you'll help elect the GOP candidate. Orrex Dec 2015 #79

The meanie Republicans and their stupid talking points AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #82

I'm not fearful at all. I simply accept it as reality. Orrex Dec 2015 #100

I don't see any reality in them whatsoever AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #106

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the GOP of the past three or four decades Orrex Dec 2015 #114

You'll Get A Republican Elected!!!!!! Phlem Dec 2015 #150

Poor Sanders voter, sees every challenge as a threat Orrex Dec 2015 #157

Poor Hillary voter doesn't have a clue. Phlem Dec 2015 #162

Your hostility speaks volumes. Orrex Dec 2015 #163

Ooooh I'm hostile. Phlem Dec 2015 #164

Please don't misunderstand me Orrex Dec 2015 #170

Wow! the Blah....continues. Phlem Dec 2015 #171

If you don't know how wrong you are by now, you'll never admit it. Orrex Dec 2015 #173

"If you don't know how wrong you are by now, you'll never admit it." Phlem Dec 2015 #176

It's not my job to correct your failure to understand what irony is. Orrex Dec 2015 #197

! Phlem Dec 2015 #198

automagically = good word Hiraeth Dec 2015 #218

The GOP is only 24 to 26% of the American electorate. truedelphi Dec 2015 #167

We shall see. Orrex Dec 2015 #172

I think you're level headed and make good points. Juicy_Bellows Dec 2015 #199

That's probably true re: overall amount of dirt, but consider... Orrex Dec 2015 #201

Fair enough. Juicy_Bellows Dec 2015 #202

You mean nonsense.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #191

"Clinton has long experience with this" is the problem. thesquanderer Dec 2015 #95

Again, I'm concerned that Sanders has no track record with this Orrex Dec 2015 #111

His relative anonymity is an *advantage* here thesquanderer Dec 2015 #119

Agreed. wildeyed Dec 2015 #123

I only see the evidence I want to see. MannyGoldstein Dec 2015 #43

You sure missed it. It is about restoring democracy daybranch Dec 2015 #49

Raising taxes on the rich for Dawgs Dec 2015 #62

This message was self-deleted by its author Phlem Dec 2015 #147

Oh the Polls! Phlem Dec 2015 #148

If he becomes the nominee, the GOP won't spare him from the same relentless pnwmom Dec 2015 #26

And empty political rhetoric wildeyed Dec 2015 #120

Then Hillary is doomed! [n/t] Maedhros Dec 2015 #129

Someone said it on the interwebs wildeyed Dec 2015 #130

Americans are sick of being fleeced MannyGoldstein Dec 2015 #5

Hell the majority of Americans don't even know what an oligarch is. They care about terrorists upaloopa Dec 2015 #7

How many Americans were killed by ISIS yesterday? MannyGoldstein Dec 2015 #8

Said person doesn't know how to use their head davidpdx Dec 2015 #9

Wow just Wow? Americans put terrorism at the top of the list not me. upaloopa Dec 2015 #11

Ahem, it's Kudos Proserpina Dec 2015 #12

thanks I'll make a correction upaloopa Dec 2015 #15

Yet, he made the right call on the Iraq War Resolution and the Afghanistan surge. Hillary did not. merrily Dec 2015 #14

He didn't have anything to lose. upaloopa Dec 2015 #18

Wow, so a vote for unjust war is justified if you are at risk of not being elected? Kentonio Dec 2015 #19

Bernie funded all the wars. FloridaBlues Dec 2015 #39

Only a fool votes to not fund wars America is already fighting. Kentonio Dec 2015 #50

Yep. Phlem Dec 2015 #153

As soon as Hill voted to start a floriduck Dec 2015 #166

Baloney. Having nothing to lose is not what drives Bernie or he would not have voted against DOMA. merrily Dec 2015 #37

That doesn't apply to Clinton. >50% of New York residents opposed the Iraq war. jeff47 Dec 2015 #118

Oh my God. That is chilling. mahina Dec 2015 #132

Right? merrily Dec 2015 #138

Better than having a Hawk like Hillary making decisions about foreign policy. Motown_Johnny Dec 2015 #17

People are scared of terrorists only because they are told to be. Truth be known A Simple Game Dec 2015 #35

! Phlem Dec 2015 #151

He does and here's the thing: he's been right about it. Fawke Em Dec 2015 #195

If he manages to win Iowa, or pull within a few points behind her, Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #20

He can't win because he can't broaden his base beyond what he has now upaloopa Dec 2015 #21

And she can't win the general, because she won't broaden her base beyond 2014 Democratic Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #23

She only needs either the same coalition Bill had or Obama had. pnwmom Dec 2015 #29

I was talking about the millennials. Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #112

Bernie can't win without the minority voters who voted for Obama and Bill. n/t pnwmom Dec 2015 #113

I'd call that an impasse, were it not for the fact Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #115

I believe you are correct Samantha Dec 2015 #131

Especially if Il Douche is the Republican nominee nxylas Dec 2015 #33

FWIW cannabis_flower Dec 2015 #48

Same here in NC. NorthCarolina Dec 2015 #94

There again do you have the facts to back up that statement? INdemo Dec 2015 #54

He can broaden his support thesquanderer Dec 2015 #88

I completely disagree. mahina Dec 2015 #179

How can he win in South Carolina where he's currently almost 50 points behind, pnwmom Dec 2015 #27

Go check out how far behind Obama was from HRC at this point in South Carolina. Go on. I'll wait. theislander Dec 2015 #78

Obama was MUCH closer to Hillary than Bernie is. 26 points behind compared to 48. pnwmom Dec 2015 #87

Of course he is Kalidurga Dec 2015 #30

good observation. lol nt retrowire Dec 2015 #32

Oh haha SammyWinstonJack Dec 2015 #67

Haha! Maybe the server switch was responsible for that. Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #116

And yet Predictwise has Sanders at 5% of being the nominee Gothmog Dec 2015 #31

I give very little credence to those "predictor" websites. theislander Dec 2015 #81

When We Stand Together - No Citizen Need Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go cantbeserious Dec 2015 #34

+1 merrily Dec 2015 #40

Well that's nice. Amimnoch Dec 2015 #36

I sure as hell hope so. nt LWolf Dec 2015 #41

It wouldn't surprise me at all. Vinca Dec 2015 #45

Good for Senator Sanders. ismnotwasm Dec 2015 #47

In his dreams VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #52

Iowa, New Hampshire - New Hampshire, Iowa Gamecock Lefty Dec 2015 #53

Actually he has an extensive volunteer ground operation taking place all over the country Kentonio Dec 2015 #66

My state votes on March 1st, part of the Super Tuesday theislander Dec 2015 #83

Bernie!! AzDar Dec 2015 #57

Win or lose, we all and Mrs. Clinton need to hear Senator Sanders voice Sunlei Dec 2015 #85

Who's been silencing his voice? brooklynite Dec 2015 #97

This is an object lesson in trying to frame data to fit a narrative Godhumor Dec 2015 #86

Here's a big clue for you: Clinton supporters are poll-driven. Sanders supporters are not. theislander Dec 2015 #107

Just imagine a Bernie vs Donald debate Funtatlaguy Dec 2015 #91

Funny thing... brooklynite Dec 2015 #96

Voters actually LIKE Bernie Sanders. HRH? in_cog_ni_to Dec 2015 #105

Honesty and trustworthiness should be minimum qualifications for President! Elmer S. E. Dump Dec 2015 #211

He's gonna be a huuuge winner! randome Dec 2015 #109

An accurate headline would be: wildeyed Dec 2015 #125

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2015 #127

He then destroyed his chances by adding, "Yeaaarrrgh!" Flying Squirrel Dec 2015 #135

A major political upset is the only way he'll win. Orsino Dec 2015 #137

Go Bernie Go! SoapBox Dec 2015 #141

He is. 99Forever Dec 2015 #142

This thread is nothing but Thirdway FAIL. Phlem Dec 2015 #154

Okay, this could explain some of the current dynamics on DU. senz Dec 2015 #155

Doesn't look good for Hillary! Helen Borg Dec 2015 #160

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Dec 2015 #182

if Bernie can get major Hillary backers to leave her for him, there may be an upset SleeplessinSoCal Dec 2015 #190

If he wins Iowa by a few points he'll get two or three more delegates than Clinton. If he wins NH. George II Dec 2015 #205

I See This Has Become The Same Older VS Younger Voter ChiciB1 Dec 2015 #210

...and needless to say, plenty of millennials will be supporting Clinton. brooklynite Dec 2015 #234

Clinton &Schultz Ruining The Party billhicks76 Dec 2015 #221