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Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
59. People continue to mistake "independent" for "swing voter" or "middle of the road."
Thu Sep 26, 2019, 01:37 AM
Sep 2019

Last edited Sat Sep 28, 2019, 03:11 AM - Edit history (1)

Studies have made clear that the vast majority of so-called independents are highly partisan voters who simply like calling themselves "independent." In fact, most "independents" are more partisan than the average party-affiliated voter was in the 1970s.

Furthermore, 2016 was not the result of Obama voters defecting to Trump. It was the result of suppressed turnout. Hundreds of thousands of Obama voters in key battleground states simply didn't vote, or they voted 3rd party. 25 years of Hillary Hate had taken a toll. Not to mention Russia, Comey, race-based voter suppression, etc.

The failure to understand all of that has led to this narrative that we need an old white male in order to defeat an old white male, that only Biden can win back those 3 states that had been won by the Democratic candidate for president each of the previous 6 or 7 presidential elections. It's nonsense, but for some it's become pure gospel.

Sanders has no chance at the nomination and probably would lose in the general. But Warren has a genuine shot at both the nomination and the presidency. I don't think she or Biden will be the nominee, however. Sanders hurts Warren's chances and I'm not sure she can do well enough among Black voters. But if Warren does win the nomination, I certainly think she can win. The biggest problem would be her insistence on doing away with private health insurance.

What I think will happen is that Harris will surge in Iowa and be able to take South Carolina once Biden fails to win either IA or NH. She'll then have a great Super Tuesday and go on to become the nominee. If that doesn't happen, then I think Warren has a great chance. It's too early to rule out Buttigieg, O'Rourke and others, though. The vast majority of people have not made up their minds. And we're still far enough out that the average voter isn't paying very close attention, especially with so many candidates still being in the race (the average voter isn't a DU political junkie and isn't going to bother trying to distinguish between 20 people they've never even heard of).

Anyway, how long Sanders sticks around will play a major role. If he loses both Iowa and New Hampshire, he'll have zero justification for staying in the race, which doesn't mean he'll drop out. He, again, has no shot at becoming the nominee, but he has enough of a following that he definitely has an impact on how others fare. Were he to drop out before Iowa (fat chance), Biden would be in serious trouble, as Warren would be a favorite to win both of the first 2 contests (if Biden fails to win either, his support will collapse). Again, though, I think Harris (or possibly someone else) will make significant gains over the next 4 months and may win Iowa. Klobuchar is someone who ought to do really well in Iowa, but I've never thought she would gain much traction due to a lack of charisma and the early reports about her being abusive toward staff. Booker, Buttigieg and Beto still have a chance to surprise. It's very reasonable to expect at least 1 candidate to surge in the coming months. Those who think the race will remain as is over the next 4+ months have not paid attention to history.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
Why Warren can not win the presidency [View all] cannabis_flower Sep 2019 OP
That person thinks that African Americans voters will vote for Trump if Warren is the nominee?! demmiblue Sep 2019 #1
It has been shown in polls and questionaires that male AA voters did in fact vote for Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #2
Anyone who would vote for rump is an idiot. Tipperary Sep 2019 #3
There is sexism in this country...that is a reality. We need to beat Trump. Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #13
I really do not think that we should cater to sexist or racist voters. Tipperary Sep 2019 #19
We're not going to beat sexism through sexism. athena Sep 2019 #21
We aren't going to win a general unless we nominate candidates the electorate will support. Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #31
It is ACTIVELY participating in sexism jcgoldie Sep 2019 #39
Apparently, only Bettie Sep 2019 #67
Link, please. charlyvi Sep 2019 #22
Thank you. I was about to ask for sourcing on this. NCLefty Sep 2019 #69
A-A men did not vote for Rump over Hillary. They only voted for her at lower rates than A-A women Celerity Sep 2019 #27
Or black people just simply stay home in large enough numbers 5starlib Sep 2019 #36
That is a very good point...I think Warren could win the popular vote but not the EC. Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #42
Do you feel the same way about them as Stein voters? Lordquinton Sep 2019 #46
Demsrule I found this out to be true at my company. zackymilly Sep 2019 #52
Cool story. MrsCoffee Sep 2019 #63
And here's an article that disputes that notion: Garrett78 Sep 2019 #71
That's what I find so troublesome about the argument that Biden is the only person who can Politicub Sep 2019 #15
Clinton Had a Lock On the AA Vote Right Until Iowa DrFunkenstein Sep 2019 #17
Only with the younger ones, he is locked in with 50yo plus A-A's. Harris is basically done (3% in Celerity Sep 2019 #29
An inch deep? Black people love Obama 5starlib Sep 2019 #37
Yes. Tipperary Sep 2019 #20
Warren supporters often claim Biden should not be our nominee because of "the enthusiasm gap." emmaverybo Sep 2019 #34
Enthusiasm is a real factor. It will remain a factor even if you plug your ears with your fingers Politicub Sep 2019 #47
Fair enough to all your points. A fair and well-made challenge to my post. I will add, and I speak emmaverybo Sep 2019 #49
I have always liked and admired Biden Politicub Sep 2019 #50
Thank you for sharing that anecdote with me! Yes, we share a common a common goal. I do emmaverybo Sep 2019 #57
d) Who's Elizabeth Warren IronLionZion Sep 2019 #4
Are you allowed to copy other people's posts from candidate groups to the wider Primaries forum? highplainsdem Sep 2019 #5
Same question peggysue2 Sep 2019 #7
I see where they have copy and pasted it into two different forums/groups now. NT TidalWave46 Sep 2019 #8
That would seem to defeat the purpose of the candidate forums. highplainsdem Sep 2019 #9
I don't see anything prohibiting this in the Terms of Service Politicub Sep 2019 #18
They probably didn't anticipate anyone doing anything this low re candidate groups. highplainsdem Sep 2019 #33
I find this to be highly questionable behavior. TidalWave46 Sep 2019 #6
Ya think??? peggysue2 Sep 2019 #10
I'm pretty new but it's not something I would need clarification on. TidalWave46 Sep 2019 #11
LOL!! peggysue2 Sep 2019 #12
The post was locked BlueMTexpat Sep 2019 #53
That's really cool of the people in the Warren group. TidalWave46 Sep 2019 #54
What Have You Been Smoking, cannabis_flower? DrFunkenstein Sep 2019 #14
Reread what I posted cannabis_flower Sep 2019 #44
Gotcha n/t DrFunkenstein Sep 2019 #48
It does seem dicey to be reposting from other candidates' groups caraher Sep 2019 #16
+1 demmiblue Sep 2019 #24
++1! BlueMTexpat Sep 2019 #55
Warren-Booker would be an unbeatable ticket. athena Sep 2019 #23
Please self-delete your OP. It sets a bad precedent. highplainsdem Sep 2019 #25
Bad precedent wsbradshaw Sep 2019 #41
+1! eom BlueMTexpat Sep 2019 #56
Lol. Tipperary Sep 2019 #58
Unless a post is clearly false, I do not understand Tipperary Sep 2019 #60
The OP isn't false, but is clearly in violation of the intent of creating individual candidate highplainsdem Sep 2019 #65
Well, it has not been locked, so apparently not Tipperary Sep 2019 #66
The OP is a baseless opinion rooted in a misunderstanding of "independents." Garrett78 Sep 2019 #70
The OP of THIS thread is a grab of someone else's post from a candidate forum the author of this highplainsdem Sep 2019 #72
Things change with time. It seems to me people are becoming more comradebillyboy Sep 2019 #26
That original OP is filled with fear based, evidence free defeatism Fiendish Thingy Sep 2019 #28
I don't see why a primary preference needs to mean.... LAS14 Sep 2019 #30
I can't support copying from a candidate forum, thus I will not respond anymore on this OP... Demsrule86 Sep 2019 #32
Do you support criticizing a candidate in another candidate's protected forum? athena Sep 2019 #35
Boo hoo... cannabis_flower Sep 2019 #45
EW may not be the first choice but she has ecstatic Sep 2019 #38
She'll get the black vote wsbradshaw Sep 2019 #40
Warren barely acknowledges Obama exists 5starlib Sep 2019 #43
Horsepoo. Obama was a fan of Warren's since BEFORE he was even a senator. blm Sep 2019 #51
What a load of horseshit jcgoldie Sep 2019 #73
People continue to mistake "independent" for "swing voter" or "middle of the road." Garrett78 Sep 2019 #59
This is a really good point. athena Sep 2019 #64
Partisans who don't like partisanship. Garrett78 Sep 2019 #68
PoC will come along. Surely they know Trump is a racist POS by now... ? NCLefty Sep 2019 #61
Never say never Yoopy Sep 2019 #62
Black vote in SC in new Qpac poll: Gothmog Nov 2019 #74
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