Why Companies Aren't Getting the Employees They Need

[Kennah]

Source: WSJ

Even with unemployment hovering around 9%, companies are grousing that they can't find skilled workers, and filling a job can take months of hunting.

Employers are quick to lay blame. Schools aren't giving kids the right kind of training. The government isn't letting in enough high-skill immigrants. The list goes on and on.

But I believe that the real culprits are the employers themselves.

With an abundance of workers to choose from, employers are demanding more of job candidates than ever before. They want prospective workers to be able to fill a role right away, without any training or ramp-up time.

Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204422404576596630897409182.html

---

Finally, someone speaking a little truth about the bullshit storyline "there are no skilled workers out there."

[hedgehog]

1. "Employers here at home rightly point to a significant

" constraint that they face in training workers: They train them and make the investment, but then someone else offers them more money and hires them away.


I have a hot tip to give them if they want to retain trained workers!



The article is a real hoot - it's full of employer complaints caused by companies refusing to offer a decent wage.

[Celefin]

25. I can top that :/

When I finished training some HQ restructuring was going on.
They figured that firing everybody on time-limited contracts was a really good way to cut costs.

My line manager wanted to keep me on.
The HR people in my branch wanted to keep me on.
Everybody was drowning in work.

So they saved that measly entry-level wage by loosing out on business worth at least thrice as much because everone was overworked
and unable to keep up with the ever increasing workload. Brilliant strategy.
But the wage-costs on the balancesheet certainly went down.

Last time I checked they were desperately looking for 'experienced' people with a 'sense of loyalty' and 'strong business skills'.
Tough luck.

[raccoon]

43. Anyone these days who has a 'sense of loyalty' to their employers nowadays,

you gotta wonder about their mental health...

Because the employers don't give a happy rat's ass about you. They'll work you to death
for as little as they can get away with, and as few benefits as possible.

[SharonAnn]

68. At the end of the week, if you've done good work and you get a paycheck, you're even.

That's all there is. Loyalty to a company that can change management and/or ownership tomorrow? That would be silly.

Pay for work. That's it. That's all there is. That's all there really ever was. Any of us who believed there was any more than that have all been played for suckers.

[whathehell]

73. Then employers can't expect any more "loyalty" or "stability" than that either. n/t

[lark]

83. After you've worked yourself to the bone & make decent pay

they hire some kid right out of college at 1/2 the pay and you are gone. Happened to my husband.

[MsFlorida]

94. happened to me too.

Havent interviewed in years and years. All I can say is this sucks.

[Confusious]

96. Loyalty is a two way mutha Fing street.

Got no loyalty to me, I got no loyalty to you. Someone offers more money, I'm going.

[markpkessinger]

84. The response to that should be ...

... "You give us job security, we'll give you employee loyalty."

OR

"Yes. And we give you significant tax breaks, only to have you send our jobs overseas where you can pay slave wages."

[Lithos]

2. Hmmm

I know we are looking for a specific software skill. Our particular pain point is we can not relocate anyone to the city where the job is. And while the city itself is a major tech hub, this particular software expertise is indeed difficult to find.

L-

[hedgehog]

5. So, say it costs X dollars to move a person. How much does

it cost the company each day you don't have a person in place? (Not blaming you, just commenting on how often a company will cut off its nose to spite its face!)

[Lisa0825]

92. Sometimes it is about applying a policy uniformly.

Working for a state institution, there are specific cases in which relocation can be offered. We cannot pick and choose. So if a position does not meet the defined criteria, we can't do it. If we changed the policy for that case, we would have to ditch the policy completely or be acused of favoritism if we didn't offer relo to everyone.

[No Elephants]

12. If I can't find what I need at a price I am willing to pay, I do without it.

Of maybe find a temporary solution until I can afford what I really want.


What can your company offer instead of re-location fees?

Can you negotiate with the prospective employee to pay moving costs over time? Or, better yet, to provide a somewhat higher salary or better fringes instead of moving fees? People can understand--or be made to understand--that having something in their paycheck forever is a good thing. What about a small ownership interest interest instead of relocation money? Or a life insurance policy?

Is working from home (outside your area) a possiblity, given Skype and other technologies.?

Since I don't know anything about your company or why it can't pay moving fees, it's hard to come up with potential solutions, but it sounds as though some inhouse, creative brainstorming about fashioning a compensation package without moving costs may help?

[kentauros]

40. +1111 for the Telecommuting suggestion!

This is exactly the kind of job that is perfect for telecommuting. And yet, it still comes up against all the same lame excuses for not doing it. The technology exists now to implement it, even in regards to things like "impromptu cubicle meetings". Hello?! Webcams, Skype, iMeet, et cetera...

[SharonAnn]

99. It's pretty rare in the U. S. that one cannot find an IT skill set at the right price.

It may be your situation, but that would probably be one out of 1,000 openings where "we can't find anyone to fill the position" would be a true statement.

The other 999 can't be filled because they won't pay enough.

[NYC_SKP]

3. Today's High School Graduates Have Far Lower Skills Than 20 Year Ago...

Our children are fine, brighter than ever.

But there's something terribly wrong with our schools.

Schools are my daily milieu, my passion, my career.

We've thrown out some of the most important classes and activities: arts, music, crafts, shop, cooking, sewing, tinkering, measuring, exploring, wondering, breaking things, fixing things, going outside, playing.

We've also got a culture that has lost all respect for the crafts and trades, blue collar craftsmen and women.

Time to fix it.

We are failing our students.

I'm seeing a lot of denial over this fact, and it's denial that's going to hurt our youth in the long run.

They need to be able to read a tape measure, trouble shoot a mechanical or electrical problem, understand human interactions in the workplace (soft skills).

I work with both high schools and employers and this article is reflective of what I'm seeing.

Denial of the problem is a condemnation of the very people who are not being served, our youth, our future.

Sad.

[ThomCat]

7. This is all true.

So much of what we now teach is schools reflects the ideas that only reading, math and science are important, and only the ability to take standardized tests measures knowledge.

Skills training of any kind have disappeared!

You can't test skills on a standardized test. You test skills by having kids use and demonstrate those skills.

[rfranklin]

30. What skills are you talking about?

Machine shop skills? Juggling skills?

Perhaps you can expand on that?

[reggie the dog]

37. here is a list

carpentry skills

the ability to form a coherant argument or assertion based upon multiple sources of information in both written and oral form

auto repairs

the ability to measure ingrediants in beekers and into measuring cups and then heat to desired temperature for desired amount of time as to do science experiments or cook

paiting/drawing/dance/music/writing/etc, expressing ones self creatively

basic plumbing

basic electric

basic computer use/troubleshooting

public speaking skills

basic masonry

the ability to apply math, science, and logic to daily life situations

you know, all the skills we need for life

[JDPriestly]

8. +1000 NYC_SKP

Even if you never sew so much as a napkin after you take a sewing class, you will have learned a lot of applied math such as how to measure something, how do know whether a line is straight or angled, how to plan a project from start to finish, how to follow instructions, and you will have developed useful eye-hand coordination skills. You also learn what it means to finish something you start, to stick with tedious jobs in order to accomplish exciting things. There is so much to be learned from the non-academic subjects that should be a part of every child's education.

The Republican view of education is to "learn the basics," but how do you learn them? Some kids develop language skills in music class. That's where you learn to listen carefully. We have really made a mess of education by focusing too much on the academics and not enough on the whole child.

[Beartracks]

10. Republicans think learning is literal.

They seem to fashion policies based on an idea that the only thing students learn in a class is what's in the class title. You know, like: Math class is for math; English class is for reading and writing; Art class is for art (but that won't help you in life); Music class is for music (but that won't help you get a job.) Etc.

==============

[JDPriestly]

69. "Is our children learning?"

And GWBush went to the "best" private schools? Horrors. He would have done much better going to a run-down public school anyplace in Los Angeles if he had been sincere about learning, studying, working. But he wasn't. Never was. What a brat.

I pity the employer who hired GWB.

[Beartracks]

95. That employer was, ultimately, US!

But I know what you mean.

=======================

[stevedeshazer]

13. +1

[Chan790]

38. I think one untaught skill trumps all those except maybe the first two.

Have you read the crap these kids turn in as essay-work? I mean, really, have you?

They can't fucking write. Further, most are entirely-incapable of thinking or analysis that requires them to do anything beyond regurgitation.

(I feel a lot of these "lost skills" from my parent's educational generation are "good riddance" courses that were filler. Shop-class and home-ec deserved the Old Yeller treatment long before they got it.)

[chrisa]

46. Your second sentence is entirely true.

We're producing robots, and then whine that kids leave school with no ability to think for themselves.

It's not just little kids that can't write either - it's grown young men and women that can't write worth a damn. An intelligent 12 year old could probably write many of them under the table.

Learning regurgitation is not education. It's an intellectual catastrophe. Imo, the core of education should be, "what do you think?" not, "Repeat what I think."

[kentauros]

50. I actually saw someone on a writing forum ask

if they could get a story published in "txt-speak". The other members pretty well set them straight about that "idea" :eyes:

However, I strongly disagree with the idea that Shop and Home-Ec are "good riddance" classes. "Home-Ec" needs to be re-envisioned and renamed. "Life Skills" would be more appropriate. 40+ years ago for me "Home-Ec" translated to "Daycare Training". As far as I know, they didn't teach things like balancing your checkbook (or today, keeping close tabs on your account online), nothing about personal taxes, grocery shopping and cooking for one, and so on. Include all the domestic skills, chores and responsibilities, and it would be a class everyone would be required to take.

As for shop, teach that along with the other classes in the field of Industrial Design and you have a workforce that can segue between sketches and in-house design to the shop floor and the R&D department. A good Industrial Designer (or even a furniture designer) can make a pretty hefty wage these days, but only a few colleges and universities teach that. I suspect no high schools teach such important basics.

[eppur_se_muova]

61. Home ec and shop need to be unisexed, or even combined. :^)

If nothing else, the result would be more reflective of the reality of single-parent households, and other departures from the cherished nuclear family with 2 1/2 kids.

Wonder how many more talented male chefs and female mechanics/tradeswomen that would produce ...

[kentauros]

64. I agree.

I also feel it would just create a more rounded education and an individual not trained only for a very specific job/position. Being able to "wear many hats" is a bonus for both the employer and the employee.

[knitter4democracy]

56. I'm an English teacher, and we're working on it.

(I'm home with sick kids today, or I'd be at work getting my 9th graders to fix their essays.)

They've been spoon-fed for so many years and have great coping skills to avoid any real work, so now I get to try to get them to write a real essay that makes sense, learn how to think rationally, reasonably, and critically, and actually read--and they fight me tooth and nail pretty much every day.

Essays are expensive for test companies to grade, so they hire the cheapest people and give them less than a minute per essay, so we have to teach them to write crap essays to pass the tests. The reading selections on the tests are easy, and the questions asked are even easier. With tests being the end-all, be-all in education these days, start there if you want to blame someone.

[eppur_se_muova]

60. People who don't read aren't going to learn to write.

Reading involves more than just recognizing words. It involves analysis on several different levels, from basic grammar and syntax to complex arguments spread over multiple paragraphs, or even pages. It's an essential skill for every subject taught, but it doesn't get enough attention as an object in itself. The more you've read, and the more complex the material you've read, the more you'll be capable of writing well. Nothing leaves kids more deprived of real education than an absence of challenging reading assignments. And our mass-production, entertainment-all-the-time, dumbed-down "culture" doesn't do anything to encourage or reward the pursuit of reading beyond the absolute minimum necessary to the marginally functional wage slave.

I see colleges touting ideas like "writing across the curriculum", which requires all introductory level classes to include a significant writing component -- never mind that incoming students are taking remedial classes in so many subjects there's not much chance they can be well read enough to have any non-trivial thoughts worth writing down. If they're not well read, how can they be "well written" ? Truly a case of placing the cart before the horse.

[LuckyLib]

81. This is it in a nutshell. If kids don't see their parents reading books, magazines,

newspapers, and the internet, they don't see reading as anything but "school work" - and once they are in school, "Nothing leaves kids more deprived of real education than an absence of challenging reading assignments." They can't write because they don't read -- reading at school is only part of it.

[JDPriestly]

72. The point is that you learn to think critically by doing things, trying

to make things.

If you fail to think critically as you cut out a piece of fabric for a dress or skirt, you end up with a lot of pieces that do not fit together. You have to think at each step, "What will be the result if I do this as I am doing it? What could go wrong? Could I end up with four front panels for my pants? How can I make sure that the floral pattern matches and looks continuous across the seat of my pants?"

You learn critical thinking first by working with concrete objects.

I am watching my little 11-month-old grandson as he discovers things and the world of language. He learned a couple of words. He was praised. Now, he watches and listens as people talk and repeats as much as he possibly can of what he hears. Sometimes, he can't catch the individual words, so he imitates the overall "musical" sound of the language.

Working with things, working with sounds and with pictures -- manual arts and sewing -- music -- and art -- are the ways that we improve our language and other skills.

We need more arts, music, real experiences in our schools. It is no coincidence that the deterioration in academic standards coincided with the reduction in our arts programs beginning in the mid- to late-sixties.

Above all, we do not learn to write and think for ourselves solely from reading the writings and thoughts of others. We learn to think creatively and independently by grappling with our own reality which includes everything we do, see, touch, smell and hear.

[arikara]

74. I totally disagree about home ec and shop

I learned a lot in those classes. My mother taught me about cooking too, but the home ec classes filled in the blanks. People today generally don't know how to shop for and prepare a meal from scratch, in home ec I remember that we had to plan healthy home cooked meals for a family for a week or a month and stay within a budget. Exceedingly useful skills to have at any age when you are living on a limited income. Now people just live on the shrinking packages of ramen noodles, foul tasting kraft dinner and other processed food like substances. Exercises like these also require useful skills such as thought, imagination, practical math and more.

[chrisa]

44. Standardized tests are ruining America.

Testing is fine, but basing college admissions on one test is ludicrous.

Schools should teach all skills - not just the ability to solve math, science, and word problems. It should teach kids how to explore and be creative, not to just sit there doing practice tests over and over again in preparation for the SAT / whatever the standardized test be of the moment. Believe or not, creativity is heavily tied to intelligence (which would be a shocking statement to school administrators).

[Pacifist Patriot]

52. Standardized tests do one thing and one thing only.

Test how well a student can take a standardized test.

My son is in an honors English class. He has over a 100% average because of extra credit work and turning in all his assignments early. I received an email from his teacher last week that darned near made me cry. Her praise of his work ethic, writing talent and intelligence was almost embarrassing. She's entering some of his work into writing competitions.

This same child is in a basic Algebra class after having taken an on-line algebra course last year. He's struggling to maintain an A at a 90 grade average. Math just isn't his thing and he really has to work at it. (Hmmmm... can't imagine from which parent he inherited these academic tendencies.)

At any rate, they had their first standardized testing phase at nine weeks of school. These were "practice" tests the teachers reviewed with their classes when the results came back. He scored in the 98% for math and the 75% for English.

According to him, the math test was pretty easy and an answer was either going to be right or wrong. On the English test there were oodles of questions that could be interpreted in several ways and he didn't interpret some of them the way the test writers did. I asked for examples and he could only recall a couple, but he was absolutely correct. They were questions that could be viewed in a number of ways based upon your perspective. His teacher even commented on his assessment of some of these ambiguous questions.

My son has the ability to recognize these different perspectives and was put in the position of having to guess which way the test writers were going with it. In my opinion, that's an additional skill that I would find valuable as an employer but a standardized test has absolutely no way of measuring.

People all possess inherent worth and dignity, and in that respect are "equal." But we do NOT possess equal talents, skills and intelligences. I'd like to see an educational system that affirms both the children's inherent value and encourages the uniqueness of their personal gifts.

[knitter4democracy]

57. You are entirely correct.

I hate that my students think it has anything to do with intelligence. Test scores and grades have very little to do with intelligence, to be honest.

I also hate standardized tests in English and only use them when I have to. My seniors did horribly on their recent unit test (despite the teacher I'm subbing for putting the test on the class website as the study guide and my telling them about it), and yet I know many of those with the lowest scores actually read the book. It's infuriating.

[Bluenorthwest]

58. But then again, those who graduated 20 years ago are still working

Still under 40. What is the reason a 40 year old with a degree is out of work?

[Enrique]

79. that's the opposite of what the corporations are saying

the arts, playing, etc. I think are seen as USELESS to corporations. That's not what they mean by skills.

[NYC_SKP]

102. Playing, the arts, use of tools, all contribute to problem solving skills, critical thinking...

The corporations might not know it, but these are indispensible skills for management and for the trades.

Only linework and certain other job descriptions don't need these.

[madokie]

4. No one wants to work for what they are trying to force us to take is what I think the problem is

[fasttense]

28. You are right Madokie, It's all about the money.

From the link... (I usually hate articles from the Wall Street Urinal but this one seems to actually make sense.)

"The perceptions about a lack of skilled workers are pervasive. The staffing company ManpowerGroup, for instance, reports that 52% of U.S. employers surveyed say they have difficulty filling positions because of talent shortages.

But the problem is an illusion.

Some of the complaints about skill shortages boil down to the fact that employers can't get candidates to accept jobs at the wages offered. That's an affordability problem, not a skill shortage. A real shortage means not being able to find appropriate candidates at market-clearing wages. We wouldn't say there is a shortage of diamonds when they are incredibly expensive; we can buy all we want at the prevailing prices."

I like the comparison to diamonds.

It's like those factory farms constantly complaining American citizens can't or wont take their picking and harvesting jobs, so they have to hire undocumented workers. But they want to buy their diamonds at below market price, they don't want to pay the going rate, the free market rate. American citizens would take the jobs if they paid more. The factory farm has to bring in undocumented workers because they pay their employees so little, and only an undocumented worker with the threat of starvation or deportation hanging over their heads would take a job for so little pay.

[nxylas]

33. But isn't that the whole point?

Reaganomics and its successors are all about making people desperate enough to accept any job, even if it doesn't pay a living wage. I'd call it slavery by the back door, except that even slaveholders provided their "property" with food and accommodation.

[TBF]

34. Yes, it's all about the money. They want to pay crap for highly skilled folks who

will devote as many hours as possible to them (ie far and over the 40 hour work week we thought we won decades ago).

[wickerwoman]

6. In my field, they won't even consider anyone with less than two years of experience.

And of course because of the construction slowdown no one has been hiring anyone for three years. So companies are competing for the small number of lucky bastards who already have jobs while letting year after year of new graduates (some graduating at the top of their class and with much higher potential than third tier people who happened to get jobs during fat times) slip off to do something else.

If they were willing to give a bit more support and training to new graduates, and did more to move their existing employees up into the hundreds of managment positions they are constantly advertising, they would have no problems filling positions.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

9. There are a number of positions I find impossible to hire for.

1. Positions supporting esoteric legal applications.
2. Any position requiring strong European language skills.

The first is most infuriating because most IT people with a background in Microsoft Databases are more than capable but are turned off by the fact they need the skills of a legal secretary to actually do the job. So most of those who have been hired for these positions quit not wanting to tackle the administrative side of the role. We lost a guy to the Apple Store for half the salary because he never wanted to hear the word Summation again as long as he lived. And those who are out there who are doing this work are concentrated in heavy litigation firms on the East Coast and not terribly interested in relocating to the suburbs of Los Angeles.

The second is just infuriating because when the jobs are advertised we get dozens or even hundreds of responses, only to find that most of them are deeming themselves fluent based on successfully having propositioned a woman in a bar or having taken French or Spanish or whatever as an elective in high school. We have often sifted through every applicant to find not a single one of them was fluent or even passable in the required language. And then when we do actually find people they are often taken aback by the fact that a position requiring fluency in say French will require an extraordinary amount of travel to France of all places... the nerve.

[No Elephants]

15. Do you really need both those things in the same person?

I don't know which European language skills you are looking for, but the skills of a legal secretary should not be hard to find in the L.A. area.

If you can have two people working together on the project, I would suggest looking in legal publications, like Lawyers' Weekly, for someone with legal skills who is looking for a position or free lance work.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

21. They are two unique roles that are both difficult to fill

The first is one person who understands the litigation process and has the technical skills to support the database end of the applications. Trying to train the admin staff on the technical aspects of the applications has never been successful. Training IT people to understand the administrative side of the applications is doable - they just don't want to do it because they find the work mind-numbing and the applications are horrible. Summation, Ringtail, Concordance - they all suck.

The European work is simply a matter of finding the appropriate business skills in a person fluent in the appropriate language.

[Chan790]

41. I meet both...

and I'm unemployed...but you lost me at LA. I'd sooner move to Idaho or Utah.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

70. Really...

How does Orem work for you? Right on the lake.

[Chan790]

114. At this point,

I'd still prefer to remain on the northeast/mid-atlantic coast...I'm a Manhattanite at heart and most of my current misery in life stem from having moved to DC for work then getting trapped down here by the state of the economy.

[leveymg]

11. Here's the issue: they want 1 person w/ fresh skills & 20 yrs exper. to work for entry-level wages

and to do the work of both a senior-level employee and an entry-level assistant. In other words, this is just another way of getting more work and profit without paying for it. More money in the pocket of upper management and stockholders - the 1 percent.

[No Elephants]

16. +1

[Sherman A1]

14. Frankly it is always a combination of factors

I am sure that education makes a big difference. The employers most likely want a younger (cheaper) workforce and overlook middle aged & experience workers that are available. The employers are pushing to do more and more with less and less, hence the attempt to avoid training expenses and in the work place each and every day we all are looking at cuts, combining jobs that are all part of the do more with less mantra.

Over all it is indeed the rewards of a self inflicted short sightedness on the part of Corporate America.

[NuttyFluffers]

17. Think simpler. They want excuses for H1 visas to get indentured labor

work on the cheap + overtime if you want to keep your visa. speak up and your ass is sent back home.

it's all about cheap labor who can't fight back.

[leveymg]

19. You assume that US workers have any more rights. Speak up and your ass is out the door - might as

well be deported. It is indeed "all about cheap labor who can't fight back", but that isn't a problem confined to non-immigrant workers or even created by them. The problem is a desperate race to cut costs and create profit for shareholders and top management - it's a problem as old as capitalism, itself. Focusing on H-1B does nothing to address that larger issue, in fact it distracts from the bigger struggle, helping the 1 percent by keeping us divided against ourselves.

[NuttyFluffers]

107. you have to introduce more than one competing party to get people to fight amongst themselves.

division and isolation 101.

you're right, it's nothing to do with the visas, and it's everything to do with the desire of capitalism to keep labor divided, in the final product.

but what excuse are they using? that's right, under-qualified american applicants.

why? so they can introduce another competing party (either by outsourcing or brain drain) to get the slave labor costs they so desire.

nothing works like the desperate dragging their fellows down in trying to survive. and yet desperate people are never at fault for their desperate actions. power is at fault for fostering and exploiting desperation.

[No Elephants]

18. Reminds me of a guy looking for someone with looks, brains, a family fortune and a perfect

personality, maybe an interesting career, too, who will love him for himself (whatever that means) because he has none of those things.

Or the reverse, in a woman seeking the Holy Grail male.

Unless you give in on some of your criteria, you are likely to remain single all your life.

With employers, the place they REALLY don't want to give is usually money.

Employers need to go back to wanting to make a living, not wanting to make a killing. (Now I'm the one being unrealistic, I guess.)

[leveymg]

20. Double-Plus + + for a good metaphor

[Celefin]

23. Yap. You will be so proud of working for us.

Uh why?
Because we have such a catchy logo and a well known name!
But no decent wage.
What?! You want to get paid?!

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

22. High School Vocational training died decades ago...

... they shut down the printing shops, wood shops, auto mechanics shops and so on in cost cutting measures, figuring that all a kid needed to be was a, "plugged in pinhead", to embrace the exciting digital future.

I could go on about the troubles foisted upon the newer generations, ie... how the right wingers took over school boards and have tried to kill public education, but that might be off topic for this thread.

[dddem]

27. I think the reason for that is the argument that we have vocational schools for that purpose.

Trouble is, the vocational schools are becoming so concerned about their graduates going on to college, that they are starting to defeat the purpose for their existance. Kids who, a generation ago, would have been the perfect tech/voc school student (hands on, not book learning type of student) can no longer pass the entrance exam to get into the tech/voc school, so they go to the traditional high school where all of the "shop" classes have been cut, because of the tech/voc schools, where they can't possibly succeed.

[Maine-ah]

29. we still have our vocational school

but I know most areas don't have them anymore.

Part of the other problem is on the job training. That seems to have disappeared as well.

[BumRushDaShow]

24. Bingo!

They don't want to train anymore. That costs "money" (that should be funneled to the top instead). :banghead:

[liberal N proud]

26. Cowards!

Drive education to the ground so they can blame it for their dirty business practice

[Vinca]

31. There was a piece on CNN over the weekend about a company

in Littleton, Colorado that was having trouble filling positions. They interviewed the woman who owned the company and she seemed thoroughly disgusted that people were sending in their resumes and then only 1 out of 20 showed up for the job. It paid $7.50 - $8.50 an hour. You can make that much money picking bottles and cans off the side of the road. Someone needs to tell the employers we are not a third world country . . . yet.

[No Elephants]

36. We sure have a head start in that direction, though!

Want until agribusiness finishes buying up the planet's farmable land.

We'll get there.

[chrisa]

42. Wait until the Republicans try to repeal the minimum wage, and people are making $0.50 / hour

Then we'll be there.

[whathehell]

101. That's what I made on an ordinary clerical job -- Twenty five years ago in 1986 !

The cost of living has gone up considerably since then.:eyes:

[ck4829]

32. Employers want you to be currently employed, they want you to have a good credit score, they want

You to take a pay that is not viable, etc.

The 'job creators' are responsible for the lion's share of our nation's unemployment problems.

[JoeyT]

35. Usually the problem isn't even just filling a position.

They want an employee that will fill three to six positions, while paying considerably less than one used to pay.
It's not even about working harder anymore, you have to have a bunch of skill sets that have nothing to do with one another, and be willing to accept less money than any one of those is supposed to pay.

[MessiahRp]

39. "without any training or ramp-up time" - This is EXACTLY the problem.

Employers now refuse to spend a single penny on training so they try not to hire any potentially great candidates just because of that. It's cheapskating the hell out of your business especially when you consider that actually training someone to do the position at your company teaches and acclimates them to the way you want things done better than someone with outside experience trying to adjust on the fly. This generally means less mistakes and correcting later on, all of which would probably cost you less than actual training.

It's just that companies don't give a fuck about the workforce. They don't view them as commodities, they view them as expendable necessities that they hope to shed down the road for greater profit margins (and CEO bonus money).

We don't all start off at executive level no matter how much they wish it so. And certainly wouldn't be at that level for that pay grade.

Rp

[raccoon]

45. Delete--dupe. nt

[Javaman]

47. Let me translate...

companies won't hire anyone wanting an actual salary. It's slave wages or nothing.

[chrisa]

48. My experience looking for an entry-level position last year.

Many of the entry-level, low-paying IT jobs required absolutely ridiculous qualifications. Keep in mind that this is an entry-level job that normally a college student or recent graduate would probably take. A few of them required qualifications like a master's degree. Why would anyone with a master's degree take an entry level job that they're clearly overqualified for? The salaries were also terrible for these jobs (think $30,000 - $40,000, and wanting someone with a Master's Degree - Really?).

A few of them also had ridiculous requirements like being a Java expert, or having 5+ years of experience. Why would you need either of those for an entry level IT position that has nothing to do with programming and can be done by a college kid?

In my experience, almost all of the jobs wanted 5+ years of experience. Most of them are still posted! I have to wonder who in the world they're looking for if the job is still up after 1.5 years. Something is really wrong if they can't choose somebody by then.

[Javaman]

49. Did you see my translation right above your post?

;) LOL

[Pacifist Patriot]

59. Entry level and requiring 5+ years experience would seem to be mutually exclusive, would you think?

I hear you!

My husband's company has been raising the bar when filling new positions for a number of years now. (Well, unless you go to the same church as the VPs, but that's another issue completely.)

I know exactly why they are doing it too. They've significantly reduced the staff necessary to mentor/train new hires. Training costs are an area where companies are slashing budgets and one way to do that is hire someone who requires minimal training. It's ridiculous. You're cutting off your nose to spite your face in my opinion.

[alp227]

106. I've had a similar experience! nt

[happyslug]

51. Deming complained of this 50 years ago, it is one of the worse aspects of US Managment

Deming emphasized TRAINING, but it was TRAINING done by the Employer to get the Employer's Employees to do what the Employer needed them to do. European and Japanese Companies do a lot more training then does US Companies (And the more successful US Companies do more training then less successful companies).

While the above has been known for at least 50 years (If not longer), American Companies still want to hire someone trained by someone else, despite the long history of that NOT occurring.

More on Deming:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

William Edwards Deming (October 14, 1900 – December 20, 1993) was an American statistician, professor, author, lecturer and consultant. He is perhaps best known for his work in Japan. There, from 1950 onward, he taught top management how to improve design (and thus service), product quality, testing and sales (the last through global markets) through various methods, including the application of statistical methods.

Yes, Deming is called the father of Japanese quality, prior to about 1960 (When his policy as to Quality and Management started to see results) Japanese made items were known to be Junk (Worse then what China is making today). Starting about 1950, following Deming's Advice, Japanese industry started it long climb to be an country known for high quality items. By the mid 1970s Japan has passed the US in quality (US Companies had generally rejected Deming's policy of concentrating on the worse input and improving it, US companies went instead to the "Best and the Brightest" ignoring the fact that any company's quality can be no better then its worse input, i.e. if you want to improve quality look at the BOTTOM level of quality NOT the top end, i.e. Improve your "D" students not your "A" students and that goes back to TRAINING and EDUCATION of the workforce. No one wants to address the issue of Drop outs or "D" students in education let alone in business and that is what is needed.

[xchrom]

55. & japan took that idea & moved to other countries.

like malaysia or indonesia -- over coming a lot of hard feelings post wwII.

they trained, built housing & schools -- they created the work force they needed.

[eppur_se_muova]

62. Deming is sufficiently revered in Japan there is a prize awarded in his name ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deming_Prize

[ProfessionalLeftist]

53. It's true. My brother took a job recently and they gave him ZERO orientation or training

Sat him at a desk and left him there to figure it out himself. If he had questions he had to call India.

[meow2u3]

54. One thing this article glaring omitted: employer-employee loyalty

Employers' unwillingness to invest a little extra money in training employees who don't have the exact skill set employers are looking for and to pay them what they're worth, is not the only reason they have trouble finding people for their jobs. What's really lacking is intangible: employers' loyalty to employees. Loyalty is a lost virtue that needs to be revived.

Modern employers are not only cheap, they expect that their hires remain loyal to the company while those at the top overwork, underpay, and yank their job and financial security out from under them; they either never learned, or have unlearned, the fact that loyalty is a two-way street and must be earned, not demanded. The rampant lack of employer-employee loyalty in today's workplaces has resulted in an "every man for himself" mentality, where everyone is looking out for #1.

A fish rots from the head down, not from the tail up. Companies' difficulty finding employees is a direct result of the attitude of top management that human beings are merchandise to be used and abused at will. No wonder companies lose employees to competitors who offer them a better deal than what they're getting now.

[eppur_se_muova]

63. This should be the Thread Of The Day -- lots of excellent discussion.

I am reading a lot from people whose experiences/observations parallel mine, despite being in very different fields. Employers post ads with such specific combinations of advanced skills that maybe a dozen people in the country meet the description, then wonder why they don't get more applicants for an entry level position with minimal salary. DUUUHHH. Some of the ads I've seen are so focused that they may as well be sending out individual letters to the handful of people that might meet the requirements -- they'll all be working at similar companies, doing the same work, and it wouldn't be that hard to find out who they are.

FWIW, I wondered if this was a deliberate tactic to give the company an excuse for negotiating salaries downward -- you meet only 6 of 10 essential requirements, but we're willing to take you on as an intern ... no benefits ...

[unblock]

65. part of the problem is that the standard interview process sucks.

it's gives the employer at best a quick read on someone's relevant talents and personality ("fit").
the employer makes essentially a snap judgement and that's that.

i've seen many instances of people qualified candidates rejected for the silliest of reasons (one "red flag" gets to rejected).
and i've seen many people hired because they managed to essentially cover up their flaws on interview day.

[Populist_Prole]

66. Very much so. An interview can be such a hack job now. It's bullshit

It should be a prospective employee's chance to shine...show how qualified they are in a nuts & bolts way, but all too often they really don't get a chance. Instead they're knocked off guard by the insipid ( and cliche ) "Tell me about yourself" question....which only serves to reward those who are schmoozing glib bullshitters.

[DaveJ]

89. It's the appearance of skills rather than actual skill - It's a disease in corporate culture

I believe that some (usually corporate) employees spend their entire careers just learning the interview process.

These are the "fail upward" types. The are more focus on getting 6sigma Black Belt certification than actually doing their job well.

In fact, doing their job well is a disadvantage. If one is too good, they end up stuck in the job. When they want to move on to a better job.

This is a disease in corporate culture. The people doing the hiring are also the 'fail upward' types. The ones who created the rules failed upward. Some might say, "well that's how things get done." But I think we can see that things are NOT WORKING.

Things need to change, but this disease is serious.

[annabanana]

67. PLUS they must already have a job, PLUS they can't

test positive for anything in any amount. PLUS they must come up pure as the driven snow on facebook. . . PLUS they must be experienced but not overqualified...

It would be the end of marriage if the same standards applied.

[EC]

71. And cheaply.. n/t

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

75. Got laid off in January 2010. I finally made the decision late this summer that

I was going to start my own business.

I applied for hundreds of jobs and went on countless interviews. On more than one occasion, despite my being on time and prepared, the people interviewing me were completely disrespectful of my time(one dude was text messaging; another asked me "what origin my last name was" (um...illegal question!)), smug and just plain rude.

I did some freelancing and had a couple of temp jobs that ended prematurely (met all deadlines, got complimented on my work, then for some reason, the jobs ended very prematurely. I think it was office politics or some other bullshit). The last temp job ended in Sept. The temp agency didn't even have the class or courtesy to tell me the job was ending; I heard it directly from the person I was reporting to on-site (the client).

One can only get kicked in the head so many times.

I think being my own boss, while challenging, is going to be really cool.

[lib2DaBone]

76. How can we compete against multi-nationals who use prison labor for 5 cents and hour?

Then.. our CONgress lets them bring their cheap junk into the United States duty-free.. and give them tax breaks to boot!

The entire system is designed to FUCK the American worker and create hour-wage slaves.. which they have done. Mission accomplished.

Employers treat their workers as less than dog crap these days.. work you to death and pay you nothing.

And we owe it all to the lobbyists and our "elected representatives"... (whores) would be a better description.

[katty]

78. exactly-and have set up the conditions for countrywide slave

labor so it can flourish-walmart, et al is the tip of the iceberg for what they want.

[kestrel91316]

77. They also want people who will work for next to nothing, no benefits no job security.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

80. True. A friend of mine got laid off from the same place I did in 2010.

I took her about a year and 1/2 to get a full-time job. She said they paid her $11K less than she was making before, are not paying her health benefits (though they are paying what her husband pays for her health coverage. They renegged on paying her dental benefits.). One mistake I think she made was she never got a letter of employment in writing. Not sure what that's about.

[FloriTexan]

82. True dat!

My hubby (a plumbing designer) just started working in his field again after 2.5 years. He is "temp to perm" (allegedly), they hired him to do autocad drafting but immediately started putting him to work designing. So, they are paying him hourly at a cad drafters' wages, no benefits, no insurance, no paid holidays, and are working him 40+ hours a week, whatever he is willing to work. How do you even complain or ask for better when you desperately need the job?!?!?

[NICO9000]

85. More hogwash from the journal of the 1%

With the millions of people out of work here, they just can't find the right person eh? More apologia for the corporate whore class.

[valerief]

86. I thought they say that to justify the H1B employees they get shipped over here. nt

[1776Forever]

87. Why don't they set up seminars in High Schools to tell students what they need? They just want

everyone to come to their doorstep it seems. I had heard some companies in India were paying to have their students take engineering classes! Could you see our companies here doing that? H_ll no!

[DaveJ]

90. Company Job training is essential. It would greatly benefit the companies.

If taking engineering classes is job training in India, that explains their quality of tech support. In fact, every company is different. There is no class that can teach anyone ahead of time the particulars of a job at any particular company.

This is why we have universities in the U.S. with a broad range of study, to teach people how to think, not just what to think.

Companies are killing themselves by not offering more job training themselves.

[harun]

88. Employers want a magical employee to show up, grow their company, increase profits and do it for low

wages and little benefits.

[raccoon]

111. +1000. nt

[handmade34]

91. excellent!!! n/t

[OwnedByFerrets]

93. They WANT folks who work 70hrs a week for minimum wage....

and then bitch about the OT....oh wait, lets just call them salary and not worry about paying ot.

[BillyJack]

97. It used to be....not so very long ago.....that employers paid for "continuing education'....

[savalez]

98. Companies are also posting their jobs anonymously on

sites like Craigslist. People hate that and are reluctant to apply.

[DaveJ]

109. A good company is hard to find

It's kind of like finding a girlfriend when you're older. The best ones are usually taken.

[raccoon]

110. Or boyfriend. nt

[midnight]

100. I think you may be on to something about who the culprits are...

Several months ago some here at D.U. posted a you tube video about attorneys going into corporations and training HR how not to hire Americans.... Then they can hire outside of the country for cheap.

[provis99]

103. companies' hiring problems should be blamed on the MBAs.

The MBA is the worst conceived "educational" degree ever invented. It is a shit degree, taken by rabid bottom-feeding slugs.

All they learn about is how to screw over employees, and pillage their own companies. Corporations weren't this disfunctional when the CEOs had liberal arts degrees rather than MBAs.

All MBAs do is look at the quarterly balance sheet, and to hell with long term plans for the corporation or its products and employees.

[DaveJ]

108. That explains a lot

Honestly I never thought of it that way. That might explain the success of Apple. Even though I'm not really a fan, Steve Jobs was definitely the liberal type and Apple became a behemoth with a $80 billion warchest. It's going to be difficult to change things now, but I guess it changed once, so it can change back, again.

[TheFarseer]

104. I've been looking for a job

because my job is absolutely unbearable and I'm not getting anywhere. Anyway, I have found that people hiring accountants want them to have used the EXACT software package they use, eventhough there is really not much difference in most software packages. Anyone smart enough to hire can figure out most of what they need pretty quick. They pretty much want you to have already been doing what you are applying for, for the last eight-hundred and seventy years. And they only want to pay 30K a year!

[tcaudilllg]

105. That is indeed true.

No training. Stupidity.

[Myrina]

112. Schools aren't giving kids the right training, because ...

... corporations aren't paying their taxes which means city/state coffers are dry, which means school districts are having to cut back and pick/choose what they teach, which leads to 'teaching to the test' so they can at least continue to get some state/fed funding and kids' background breadth of knowledge is deteriorating along with their ability to think rather than 'fill in the oval'.

Amazing how quick that tax dodging thing is coming back to bite the corporations in the ass, isn't it?

[dash_bannon]

113. Bargain Basement Employees

The problem as I see it is that employers don't want to offer higher wages, benefits, overtime, sicktime, or vacation time.

They essentially want Americans to work sweatshop hours like people do in Third World countries. That's the plan of the uber-rich; impoverish everyone so they accept near slave wages while the rich get richer. It's disgusting.

We need the government to do it's job and enforce anti-trust legislation, break up businesses that are too big to fail into smaller manageable businesses. We need to support unionized labor and strengthen labor unions politically. Otherwise, we're headed toward the trash heap of history.