Words that are now offensive that didn't used to be...

[Shell Beau]

Such as retarded, stewardess (not really offensive, but not PC), and I mentioned the other day, midget. When and why did some certain terms become offensive? I understand if they offend people, then we should stop saying them. But what automatically makes a word change? (I certainly do not mean any racist terms. I totally understand why those terms are offensive)

[Taverner]

1. Of course the N word

At the time of Mark Twain, it was perfectly acceptable. Today it is not. Probably for the same reason 'oriental' is not an acceptable term for asians - it hearkens back to days of stereotypes and hatred.

[Cassandra]

4. Niggardly seems to have taken a hit...

although it's not at all related.

[Shell Beau]

7. I have never even heard that word before.

Do some people use that word?

[Richardo]

11. "Stingy". Yes - some guy recently was fired from his job for using it

Some idiot thought it was racist.

[Shell Beau]

13. Stingy? Like as in "not sharing"?

[Richardo]

15. Yes. 'Miserly'

:thumbsup:

[Taverner]

20. Learn it, chances are it will be on a standardized test somewhere...

[biscodawg]

34. i remember some guy working in DC

getting fired for that maybe 5 years ago? How fucking stupid are some people. He used it in proper context and still gets fired. I guess using the word "cracker" should be banned too :eyes:

[Richardo]

36. That's what I was thinking of, too.

[alarcojon]

123. Some context on that here

Good article, too

http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2002/01/22/kennedy/index1.html

[Cassandra]

27. Stingy and mean (cheap rather than nasty)

It's a word with Nordic roots.
A deputy in DC government (I think) used it and was canned, or nearly so, in the ensuing misunderstanding.

[ContraBass Black]

130. There was an uproar when the mayor of D.C. used it

And an employee misheard him.

[Taverner]

8. Although it was on both GRE's and the LSAT when I took em

[Shell Beau]

5. I don't mean any words that could have a racist implication.

Although, I hear people still use Oriental. Especially when referring to Asian cuisine.

[Taverner]

30. Yeah when my wife hears someone say oriental (she's asian)

She snaps back "Oriental! I ain't no RUG!"

[Shell Beau]

32. It is good to know that. I never knew it was offensive.

I am glad I never used it!

[Taverner]

63. Its strange

Technically, it simply means eastern. The proper nomenclature was to refer to asians as orientals, and middleasterners as occidentals, referring to west and east asia.

However, oriental started to have bad connotations with it, the whole "Susie Wong" stereotype implicated and all. Occidental fell off the face of the earth completely.

[grace0418]

60. Yeah, I cringe when I hear the word oriental.

But most people don't realize it's not cool to say.

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

75. I thought you could use "oriental"

as long as you're not referring to a person. :shrug:

[Taverner]

82. True, you can have oriental rugs

Or have oriental artwork...

[grace0418]

87. You're right. I meant when I hear it being used to refer to a person.

Like, for instance, my husband. I've heard many people also refer to him as Chinese, as if that were a catch-all nationality for all Asians. I understand that there are nearly 2 billion Chinese people in this world, but not all Asians are Chinese.

[youthere]

6. Didn't "coloreds" used to be a widely used term that

was widely accepted?

[Shell Beau]

35. I think back in the 50's and 60's or something. It has been a while

since that word was acceptable (I think!).

[XemaSab]

47. NAACP

n/t

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

76. I love college basketball! (nt)

[barb162]

43. yes, prior to the 60s and 70s

along with "Negro"

[Shell Beau]

45. In my profession, I have to go look up old old deeds at the

courthouse sometimes, and it is so weird (and atrocious) to see "negroes" and cattle being claimed together as personal property. I guess it shocks me even though I know it used to be that way, just reading it blew my mind!

[Deja Q]

2. Gay. Are you gay? I am gay. I hope you're gay!!

I didn't know "happy" was so offensive.

[Shell Beau]

3. That isn't a word that is considered offensive. Although I can

understand why "queer" would be.

[Richardo]

9. "Liberal"

and that pisses me off.

[Shell Beau]

12. I think liberal is a good word.

[Richardo]

14. I do too, but it's become a perjorative thanks to the RW media

[Shell Beau]

21. That is true! Conservative can also be a good word, but

so many "conservatives" have ruined it for me.

[Left_Winger]

124. I agree with you

I overheard a student of mine use liberal as a synonym for stupid. I felt it was my obligation to point out that liberal actually had nine different definitions in Webster's Dictionary and none of them were, or could be construed, as stupid. I even pulled out the dictionary and read them to this student. The response I received: "Liberal publication!" Sometimes I feel like :banghead:. Thank goodness my doctor gave me a prescription for valium.

On a related note, the last Gallup Poll indicated the three most stressful occupations in America:
1. Surgeon (of any kind)
2. Air traffic controller
3. Public school teacher (they forgot to add: in a red-neck state)

Fighting from inside the belly of the beast is very trying at times. On the other hand, it does have its rewards.

[Jamastiene]

126. Me too.

If you actually grab a Webster's Dictionary, the word "liberal" is something most people would want to be, compared to "conservative". Oh, I forgot. Of course, I should just give it up, conservatives don't read. They prefer burning books to reading them...

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

10. Vocabulary changes and language evolves.

Peggy Noonan used the word "retard" in a column from last year, and I thought it was outrageous, but everyone else seemed to think it made sense. So, what do I know?

But I think as to WHY certain words become offensive, it just happens. For example, midget is popularly used mostly as a pejorative. If your mother is short, you wouldn't call her a midget, would you? (God forbid.) However, if your mother was a flight attendant, what's wrong with calling her a stewardess? I don't understand that one. If your mother is from China, you wouldn't call her "oriental". The orient traditionally means that part of the world's landmass lying NOT in the occident, or "civilized" Europe. Ergo, the word itself is understood by some individuals to be patronizing and condescending. Edward Said wrote a whole book about "Orientalism".

[Shell Beau]

19. I have to claim ignorance on the "Oriental" being offensive.

I don't ever use the word, but I didn't know that is was offensive. It is good to know these things, b/c even unknowingly, I never want to offend someone based on their race or origin.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

24. Me, too!

:hi: Words you can try using as substitutes would be flattering words like "exotic" or Eastern or South Asian, etc., some word identifying an actual land mass.

[XemaSab]

50. I think "exotic"

would probably be more offensive to most of the Asians I've known.

There's sort of a sexual context there that's pretty racist, IMHO.

Oriental just sounds ignorant instead of intentionally bigoted to this white girl.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

78. Bad joke: so what would you call a stripper in Beijing?

You couldn't call her an "exotic dancer". LOL

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

97. Hot. (nt)

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

79. Would you please use the word "exotic" in a way that would illustrate this

I admit this is a new one for me.

[XemaSab]

88. I think using it as a descriptor is slightly creepy

in a sexist, racist way.

Try using it in a sentance.

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

99. So, if I were to describe a woman

with apparent non-Western features as "exotic," that's racist and sexist?

[XemaSab]

119. I'm not a PC-nazi

so don't think I'm trying to jump on you here.

It seems like "exotic" is used to describe the appearance of sexually attractive young Asian women, and it's generally used as a positive descriptor in much the same way as "hot," "stacked," or anything else that smacks of objectification, only "exotic" seems to also refer to ethnicity too.

It's not first and foremost in the list of non-PC terms, but it's still a bit loaded.

[Shell Beau]

120. I actually thought it was used to decribe a

tropical beauty! Or someone who was very unique looking!

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

95. Oh, I don't know - say, like this:

"Please give this form to the exotic-looking person over there."

Okay, in actual usage, it's vaguely sexual, and not appropriate. So do not use it in reference to a person. Unless you are talking about an exotic dancer.

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

106. I must confess I don't see any sexuality in that comment.

However, I admit that, in the context presented, the word "exotic" is offensive. Don't you think it can be used it in a flattering way too though? :shrug: :)

[Shell Beau]

115. Call me exotic any ole day!

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

118. Actually, I use the word "exotic" to describe people,

and they're usually men to whom I'm sexually attracted (not exclusively, but along with other men). :D

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

121. Ok....

"A bit loaded," I can see that. I'll also concede that this word is occasionally used in a sexual context. I'm just not ready label it as altogether offensive when applied to a person (given it's not meant to be offensive) and I'm not ready to shelve it as a modifier.

Flamefest averted.

So what's up with all the fat kids I see running around these days?

;)

[XemaSab]

125. I dunno

I think their parents should be locked up for child abuse for force feeding their kids sugar like ducks at a foie gras farm.

;-)

[progmom]

110. this is a new one for me

:shrug:

[greatauntoftriplets]

112. The term "exotic disease" is vaguely sexual?

:wow:

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

116. I suppose it depends what kind of disease we're talking about. (nt)

:evilgrin:

[alarcojon]

135. I agree - "exotic" makes many women of color uncomfortable

including my wife, who is Asian Indian. As she would say, it "others" her. I know people almost always mean it as a compliment, and I am not the PC police either, but I never use the term to refer to a woman of color. That being said, I don't think there's necessarily a sexual aspect to it.

A crude analogy, but the best I can think of at the moment, would be to refer to a black person as "articulate." It's meant as a compliment, but it really isn't.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

16. As to "gay", it can be pejorative.

For example, on those prime-time animated series, something is generally "so gay" only if, in addition to something else, it is negative.

However, if I tell you I'm gay, that is not pejorative. Or if I say some artist's work was "gay" or even "so gay", and explain why I think so, that is not pejorative.

It's a balancing act.

[Shell Beau]

23. Whew! My head is spinning!

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

Yeah, I know, right?

:D

[Shell Beau]

31. As long as we continue to educate ourselves, we'll be

all right!

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

29. Maybe the test should be what would you call someone if they were family?

eom

[indigo32]

58. Hang out with teenagers

not all of course...
but many will say "Thats so gay" with disturbing frequency to refer to something they dislike.

[Shell Beau]

64. Sure, I have heard that before. I

guess any term can be used offensively. But I meant compared to say "queer" (which of course is offensive), gay is accepted among gay people.

[indigo32]

68. Today

you will find folks who take on all sorts of labels, queer included, quite happily.

[liontamer]

80. I identify as queer

It can be used quite unoffensively (especially on campuses :) )

[edbermac]

17. Bush

:patriot:

[Shell Beau]

33. I think that word turn a bad turn sometime in the 80's!

[edbermac]

37. Hey I'm a guy...in the 80's bush was a nice word...

:silly:

[Shell Beau]

38. Yeah, but that is when we started to have a slightly different

meaning. 1988 for one!

[Midlodemocrat]

18. Dick.

I knew some kids growing up with that as their legitimate last name. In the late 70s when it became a prejorative term, they actually had to change their name. They changed it to their mom's maiden name.

[Shell Beau]

28. I knew a girl who did the same thing!

[indigo32]

62. how times change

My Uncle Richard, whom I've never called Richard in my life...
has always been, and still is, Uncle Dick LOL.

[jpgray]

22. How about symbols that became offensive but originally weren't?

Take this Jainist and Indo-European symbol for good luck:



Now, I wouldn't walk around in a t-shirt with that symbol on it today and pretend that everyone is wrong for being offended because I mean it in a Jainist sense. But neither would I advocate for the destruction of ancient Vedic artifacts that bear the symbol on the argument that they advance an anti-Semitic agenda. Meaning is created by both intent and perception. The social perception of the symbol was wholly changed, so even if my intent is a harmless Jainist one, the meaning of the swastika on the shirt would still be offensive because it would not be perceived that way. Whereas if I wore the shirt in the Iron Age around India, people would take it as a sign of good luck. Meaning is fluid, and it all comes down to intent and perception.

[Shell Beau]

25. That symbol definitely took on a different meaning!

[liontamer]

84. if you wore it today in India, it's a sign of good luck

It's a little disconcerting the first time you see cakes with swastikas on them in icing, but it does help open one's mind beyond one's expectations.

[bridgit]

26. a 'crack salesman'...

:shrug:

[Tyrone Slothrop]

39. "Actress", apparently

I'm still not sure that I understand this one exactly, but I was attacked on here for not understanding what was so offensive about it. (Accused of being a freeper, I was!)

[Shell Beau]

40. For using the word "actress"? Are you sure?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

41. Oh, most definitely

There was a bit of a flame war about it, in fact. (My first flame war. Ahhhh, memories!)

Someone told me that they couldn't believe that someone who posted on a progressive board wouldn't understand how the use of that word was upsetting.

[Shell Beau]

42. Well, some people are silly. That is just silly IMO.

Actresses refer to themselves that way all of the time. It just distinguishes them from the males. Kind of like waitress and waiter. Unless they were saying there should be no ditinction. But still that is a little over the top.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

67. Well, that's what I thought too

I have several friends who are actresses (I've done a bit of work in film and theatre before) and that's how they refer to themselves. They don't seem to have a problem with it.

[liontamer]

81. the implication is that an actor is someone who acts

so why have a separate term for a female person who acts. It's not as though the job is different. The word poetess has also gone out of favor as the gender of the person who performs the job doesn't make the job different.

[Shell Beau]

92. It has just been that way for a long time. Waiter-waitress, etc.

It helps you get a visual and it is a little more descriptive. I don't find it offensive at all.

[liontamer]

134. well what about the terms "cop" and "lady-cop"

It's a little bit more descriptive and gives you a visual, but surely you see how calling focus to gender in this context implies that the job is somehow different when a woman does it.

[Shell Beau]

140. With some words (like cop), I can totally

see how it could be offensive, but I don't think "actress" is offensive to actresses. I personally don't find it at all offensive. But that is just me. I think it depends on the word.

[lukasahero]

74. No they didn't

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=2790903#2792112

Verifiable facts should not be exaggerated to try and make others look bad.

Edited to direct to the post I think you're refering to. "And I am utterly baffled that anybody on this board seems to have an issue with keeping occupation titles gender-neutral."

[Tyrone Slothrop]

89. Sorry, I don't remember the exact phrasing of responses I to posts

From 4 or 5 months ago.

I just remember the tone and the sentiment. I also liked the way you edited out the "Utterly, completely baffled." out of the responder's response.

I wasn't trying to make anyone look bad. I didn't mention anyone's name or post links to the exact argument.

[barb162]

48. So what was offensive about it? Did they ever tell you

[Tyrone Slothrop]

77. Basically, the point was

(and I hope I remember this correctly) that by distinguishing what gender was doing the actual profession, it was somehow derogatory.

That wasn't very clear at all. (This wasn't my argument, so it's a bit difficult to remember and regurgitate.)

Let me try an example -- they were saying, for instance, that you shouldn't refer to a female editor as an editrix (the "proper" term for such a person) because it distinguished that there was a difference between a man's and a woman's capacity to perform such a job. That is to say, if you referred to a female editor as an editrix, you were implying that there was a distinction between the quality of a man's and a woman's work. (And that the quality of the woman's work would be of a lower quality than the man's.)

They then applied this same reasoning to actor/actress.

[lukasahero]

71. Really?

I don't suppose you could document that by providing a link could you? Never mind, here it is. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=2790903

"Silly", yes. "Freeper"? I don't think so.

[RedCloud]

44. Ayds

I know there was a product named Ayds and people are afraid to get it now.

[barb162]

46. I remember when "retarded" was not consider pejorative.

Then it became "mentally challenged" I think. I don't know what it is proper to say anymore...it seems these things change every few years.

PS I still see nothing wrong with the word "retarded" per se

[Shell Beau]

49. A lot of words have changed. Even

words I don't find offensive. Secretary for example isn't used nearly as much.

[barb162]

52. Yeah, everyone is an admin. asst. these days instead

I still see nothing offensive about the word "secretary"

[barb162]

54. what's supposed to be used for retarded? "Challenged?"

Or is challenged out the door too.

[Shell Beau]

56. It will be soon. I know

instead of saying handicapped, people say handi-capable. Which I guess offensive things can be in the eye of the beholder.

[barb162]

65. handi-capable

This is the first time I have seen or heard that. I hope saying "black people" is still okay or am I supposed to say people of color. I swear I have been hearing people of color lately.

I clearly don't know what the hell is going on. There should be a list somewhere of non-offensive terms next to the old offensive terms

[Bunny]

131. No one in the disabled community says "handi-capable".

Take it from me, someone who has actually worked in this profession for 25 years.

[Shell Beau]

141. I have heard it used (maybe not a whole lot but still). Handicapped is

becoming one of those words. Now everything is something-challenged.

[Bunny]

132. People with disabilities.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

83. Yeah, but Peggy Noonan said it in a pejorative way, no question about it

she said (hope I get this right) that when she was younger in England, some lady asked her something about flowers (or something like that) and being young and "cool", Ms. Noonan recalled having thought, "what do I look like, a retard or something?" And I will find the column if you like, but that is what she wrote. When I brought it to the attention of others whose judgment I trust, some didn't quite get why it was offensive but that it could be, many others said oh, what's the big deal, or no, it's not offensive like that.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

90. And lots of people have noticed, too

(Parenthetical aside: "retard" is a favorite all-purpose word of mine, evocative of many things, none of them in any way deleterious to the interests of Mongoloids or other disabled persons. Peggy Noonan has taken to using this word a lot recently in her writings, to my mild glee, and no, she didn't get the idea from me. In fact, I think it's a sign her writing's going downhill)

http://opinion8.net/comments/A98_0_1_0_C/

Part of the Liberal project of the last 25 years has been an attempt to change how people think by changing what they say. So a few words have become Words One Dare Not Write or Speak Aloud. I find it interesting--interpretation is left to the reader--that at least one of those words, a word commonly heard in my childhood, seems to be coming back: "retard". Consider this column by sweet, gentle Peggy Noonan in which she dares write that "Jimmy Carter is a retard."

http://newmarksdoor.typepad.com/mainblog/2004/05/part_of_the_lib.html

(a little misleading because the quote in question was a blurb that she did NOT say "Jimmy Carter is a retard." Which begs the question, why on Earth would you even THINK such a thing? But I digress.)

I have never been able to really stand the saccharine homilies written to serve her dark overlords, but Peggy Noonan earns another note of contempt by having “retard” in her vocabulary as a descriptor for folks she holds in contempt. But this article is so wonderful for its weasel nature: she’s already justifying Bush’s decline in the polls and wondering if Bush will lose because the American people have been fooled into wanting the “normalcy” of Kerry. Hm, there’s so much to attack, where to begin? I suppose I’d start with slapping Peggy every time she says something stupid, but I don’t own an automatic idiot-slapping machine to take over for when my arm gets tired.

http://www.factoryofinfinitebliss.com/?m=200408

[Bunny]

133. Actually,whether you think it's "deleterious" or not, the fact is that

it stigmatizes people with disabilities. It's not at all in the "interests of Mongoloids...".

BTW, absolutely no one with half a clue says "mongoloid" anymore.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

136. Just to clarify - those paragraphs are quotes, not my original writing

my contribution is only what lies within the parens. :hi:

[Bunny]

138. I was thinking that, which is why I responded to the comments

about Mongoloids, and such. I was assuming that it was your writing, and the ever-lovely Ms. Noonan's was below that. :hi:

[WCGreen]

51. American....

That didn't use to be offensive but now that Bush has so trashed what it means to be an American, it will remain offensive to billions around the world....

[Shell Beau]

53. It shouldn't though. Bush and his supporters are only

half of this country. And probably a lot less than that now!

[WCGreen]

55. Yes, but still......

I too was once proud to be an America, not just Lee Greenwood...

[Shell Beau]

61. I am still proud to be an American, I am just not

proud of where this country has been led in the past few years. But I think that will all change in a few years. We just have to be patient. I know that a lot of people do not stand for what Bush stands for. And we are America. And I am proud of us.

[barb162]

57. will someone please advise what is proper these days

[Shell Beau]

66. As soon as you learn them all, they will have changed again!

[barb162]

70. that scares me because I can be offending someone and not even

know it.

[Shell Beau]

72. I know! I guess we have to continually educate ourselves.

[Terran]

59. I was informed in a sensitivity training class a few years back

that the phrase "flip chart" (a large pad of paper with pages that flip over, formerly often used in business meeetings) was no good any longer because it was offensive to Philippinos (because they're sometimes called, not pejoratively IMO, "flips").

Of all the many ideas that I heard discussed in that class, that was the only one I discounted as false or highly improbable.

[barb162]

69. I never even heard of flips.

But I remember flipcharts.

[Terran]

73. You might have to be in Cali

to be familiar with "flips" since that's where most Philippino-Americans live. I always thought of it as being kind of cute, not pejorative in any way.

[barb162]

122. Is Cali short for California?

[Terran]

127. Yes, sorry. n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

85. Liberal. nt

[Shell Beau]

86. Yeah, we already discussed that one. I still think it is a

wonderful word!

[SammyWinstonJack]

129. As do I. nt

[wallwriter]

91. Housewife...

[Shell Beau]

93. Yeah, what is it called now? Domestic-something.

[wallwriter]

108. I wouldn't know...

[Shell Beau]

111. You better get on the ball before you offend someone!

[wallwriter]

143. If they are that easily offended, I don't think of it as my problem.

I know lots of people, but they are either single or don't want or can't afford a single career household.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

94. Mongolism -> Down Syndrome; Leper -> Hansen's Disease (nt)

[Shell Beau]

96. Downs Syndrome is acceptable though. Isn't that the

name of the syndrome?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

100. "Old term -> Modern term" is the pattern I used. (nt)

[Shell Beau]

104. I see! Oops!

[MissB]

98. molest

In the grocery store once, I told my oldest not to molest the apples. I did get some strange looks.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

101. If it was an apple pie it would be a movie scene. (nt)

[MissB]

102. .

:rofl:

[Shell Beau]

103. My mind goes to one place when I hear molest.

[MissB]

105. Exactly, but most dictionaries list the sexual definition second

not first. :shrug:

[Shell Beau]

107. That is what the media will do for you.

[wallwriter]

109. Siamese twins.

Now called conjoined. Does that mean my friend has a conjoined cat?

[Shell Beau]

114. Yeah I guess so! I didn't know Siamese was wrong.

I have heard conjoined a lot, but I guess I never thought twice about it.

[deutsey]

113. George Carlin observation: "Why is it ok to say 'prick your finger'...

"But not 'finger your prick'?"

Relevant, but a little off-topic.

[Shell Beau]

117. Carlin is so freakin funny. Prick-okay in one usage, not okay in other

[Guy Fawkes]

128. Lesbian.... But....

what else do I call people for the Isle of Lesbose?

[applegrove]

137. It is amazing how a little worry will make me say exactly what I don't

mean. I'm not good with words. But I believe deeply that words are weapons and I try and push my language as far as possible in terms of being sensitive and receptive to changes in language. Language is always moving on - no reason why groups cannot get proactive about it and claim their own. I'm all for that.

Much different when politicians come along and change language of events outside their frame of reference or identity to score political points. Like GOP purposely robbing Dems of the word Liberal. Or a bunch of men or radicalized women who do not represent the majority of women coming up with "pro-abortion". That is when I get mad.

[Shell Beau]

142. Right. No one is pro-abortion.

Pro-choice. To have options.

[Clintmax]

139. I don't understand why some words have become not PC...

As you said in your original post: Stewardess (for example). I see no negative connotations to that word and don't understand why it is offensive to anyone. We now use "Flight Attendant" instead so as to not offend. There are many other examples I guess and I suppose I am just tired of all the PC changes happening. *shrugs*