Penalty for not having insurance is too low

[YewNork]

Why is the fine in the for not having health insurance so low?

The fine in the Senate bill, and in what will be the reconciled House bill, will be $695/year or 2.5% of income, whichever is higher.

My private insurance costs me $290/month or $3480/year.

Based on a penalty of $695 or 2.5% of income (whichever is higher), it means that unless my income exceeded $139,200, it would be cheaper
for me to just pay the penalty, and then buy insurance when I get sick - because they wouldn't be able to deny me coverage.

Not that I would do it. I value my insurance, but don't you think many people would?

You'd think the penalty would be higher than what health insurance would cost, so that people would want to buy insurance instead.

[Faygo Kid]

1. Welcome to DU. I smell a rat.

Literacy is your friend. Try it next time.

[YewNork]

4. You smell wrong - I've been posting to DU for a long time and my question is legitimate

I'm fully in favor of the bill being passed, in fact I'd rather it were single payer, but I'm willing to accept this as
a step along the way.

Still, I thought that because insurance companies couldn't deny coverage, it was necessary for everyone to carry insurance.
Otherwise, there would be a lot of young people who would rather pay the fine because it was cheaper. They are the ones
we need in the insurance pool in order to spread the cost.

[Socialism]

17. Cost?

This health care bill will raise premiums on every one. You think it is going to get cheaper if the government controls it your fooling yourselves. When has the govenment EVER run an enterprise better than the free market? NEVER! You cant force someone to buy something they dont need. I dont need BMW but should I be fined and taxed because i dont want it? I dont eat cabbage. Should I be forced to buy it because the GOVERNMENT says I need it because it is good for my health?

I have had the flu once in my life 25 years ago. I dont see a doctor. I dont get the flu shot every year like a lot of idiots who do. I am in the best health of my life. WHY should I buy health insurance? To pay for the idiots who go see quacks er I mean doctors because they have fallen victim to the fundamental reason why they do get sick? Because they tell themselves they will get sick if they do such and such thing? You want to live healthy and stay illness free? Live a positive life style. The mind controls the body not the body controls the mind. Last time I got a cold which lasted more than...oh 10 hours? Never!

[YewNork]

19. Because you still can become ill or be injured

You can live a healthy lifestyle and still be stricken with an illness (ask someone who was told has been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis or who is told that he has brain cancer (amongst quite a few other diseases), or you could be hit by an uninsured or underinsured motorist and end up in an emergency room. And when you can't pay, because you didn't want to have insurance, I end up paying in form of higher prices.

[Donnachaidh]

2. the insurance companies agree with you, surprisingly enough

sooooo, do you advocate debtor's prisons as well, if they can't pay? Or just chain gangs? :sarcasm:

[Socialism]

18. Chain gangs

Good point. This health care bill is a travesty. This is a dangerous thing. Now that the government can force us to buy something we want is the end of freedom. The patriot act was bad but this health care reform is worse. Democrats are not listening to the people. Our country is not a government by politicians who thing they know what is best for us. It is a government of the people by the people. When those elected no longer listen to the people it is tyranny.

[bluestateguy]

3. Fine with me

I would rather there be no mandate at all, but a mandate that has no teeth is also fine with me.

[YewNork]

7. The mandate is necessary in order to cover people with pre-existing conditions

If people can't be denied for having a pre-existing condition, then you have to have a mandate. Otherwise, people will only buy insurance when they get sick.
We need them to be paying for insurance when they're healthy as well is sick.

[dixiegrrrrl]

5. The fine increases year over year.

Starts low, will go up.
I do not know the answer to this next bit, maybe someone can help out:

How soon after the bill passes does the fine kick in?
How soon after the bill passes, does the no denial of coverage clause kick in?

Lastly, if a company can get away with forcing us to buy their insurance, how soon before another company will force us to buy lawyer policies, or funeral policies, or..?

[YewNork]

6. $695 is the price after it has gone up.

In 2014, the penalty is $95.

In 2016, the penalty is $695 or 2.5% of income whichever is higher.

[Socialism]

14. unfair tax

I will not buy insurance and i will refuse to pay fine. It is unamerican to put people in jail for NOT paying this fine, which is really a tax...This country was founded on the principle of not paying an unfair tax.

[YewNork]

22. That's OK, the IRS knows how to garnish wages

[regnaD kciN]

8. Actually, if you're bothered by the fine, you'll be even more bothered by this...

...you're exempt from the mandate if the cost of insurance (after subsidies) comes to more than 8% of your gross adjusted income. So lots of individuals earning less than $70,000 and families earning less than $125,000 would be able to get away without paying a cent in penalties for not having insurance.

You're free to be upset by that, and want it to change. Hell, you can even fight for a law where you'd have to pay hundreds or thousands per month in either premiums or penalties. But keep in mind that the main sticking point about HCR for most Americans is "being forced by government to buy expensive private insurance or pay a fine for the 'privilege' of remaining uncovered," and that that's the tack that the G.O.P. will use in November against us. Anything that makes the mandate less painful for the average American is fine with me.

[On the Road]

12. I Had Never Heard That

and that's going to prevent a lot of horror stories.

I live in a working-class part of Baltimore, and everyone here scrapes by on small paychecks and side work. Without an escape valve like that, it would really penalize people who are already up against the wall.

[RC]

9. The biggest problem is, we keep

focusing on insurance and coming up with Rube Goldberg schemes to fix what's wrong. In other words, we are just diddling with the symptoms. The root cause of our health care problems IS the insurance.
We need to do what every other civilized country has already done. Single Payer!
Single Payer, Universal Health Care. It is in the Constitution, twice, under "...general welfare..." Demand your Constitutional rights!

[YewNork]

10. Agreed, single payer is the preferred choice, but this is still a step in the right direction

Keep in mind, not every country with universal health care has done it with single payer, but they've done it. And we need to do no less.

[Socialism]

15. Constution?

You did not read the constitution very well... The constitution limits the federal government powers over the states in commerce. This bill is unconstitutional. A better way would throw out the illegal aliens out of the country who use healthcare and not pay for it in emergency room visits... and limit medical malpractice law suits to $300,000...eliminate all the unnecessary procedures so to satisfy said malpractice insurance. There is ONE thing i agree with this healthcare bill and that is deial of benefit for preexisting condition. What if your born with epilepsy? or Cereberal Palsy?

[YewNork]

20. Which means you agree with the mandate

And you realize that it's impossible to eliminate exclusions for pre-existing conditions (even the ones people are born with) unless there's a mandate for everyone to have insurance,
because without the mandate people woudn't buy insurance until they got sick.

[customerserviceguy]

11. I share your suspicions

As I understand it, the "fines" would be put in a fund for catastrophic care of the uninsured. At some point, the care paid for from that fund would be more expensive than the fine money flowing into it. Frankly, I see medical costs and insurance premiums going through the roof whether we have band-aid HCR or not.

If I were a young sole proprietor, I might just happily pay this fine as a form of cheap catastrophic care policy, and skip paying ever-rising premiums from do-nothing insurance companies.

[Socialism]

16. Fund?

Do you really believe that? this kind of thing is ripe for corruption.

[Socialism]

13. Health care reform?

This health reform is unconstitutional....since when has the
government ever had the power to COMPELL the american people
to demand they have health insurance? The federal govenment
does not have that power...this health care reform(if you wish
to call it that) forces me, a father of two, who CANT afford
health insurance, to buy insurance, which means less money to
put away for retirement or put away money for my children's
college education.

[YewNork]

21. If you can't afford it, then you'll get money to help you buy it

Problem solved.

[OpieTaylor]

23. You're right it is cheaper

You're right it is cheaper to just pay the unconstitutional fine. That's why the day after King Obama signed the bill I dropped my $200.00 a month health Ins.. After all it's always been illegal for Dr.'s and hospitals to deny health-care for lack of Ins., and now You want to buy it for me so my credit rating wont even suffer.

[Trey9007]

24. The mandate is needed........

But not just because it helps off set the costs of covering people with pre-existing conditions. The mandate is needed because the federal government mandates that hospitals treat you, when you need treatment, regardless of your ability to pay. So all those who think they don't want health insurance coverage, you are already guaranteed some coverage by the Federal government. The health care fine helps pay for the minimum coverage guranteed by Federal law. So pay your share!

[RM33]

25. We should not be forced to buy insurance.

What does it mean to live in a free country anyway? Seat belt laws, helmet laws and now this.

To live in a free country means that I can live my life the way I want to, not how the government makes me live.

I hope the supreme court declares mandatory purchase of health insurance illegal. That way we can start over.

My solution would be medicare for everyone. Just lower the age of Medicare so anyone can use it. Those who can't afford it, get it free. Those who can pay a fair price.

We have this type of relationship now with public libraries. I can get my book for free at the library or I can buy it. My choice.