Why does anyone want to legalize torture?

[Boojatta]

If torture were used to save innocent lives, then why wouldn't executive clemency be sufficient?

If the executive branch cannot be trusted to use executive clemency where it is appropriate after torture has occurred and there is time to examine the facts, then why should the executive branch be trusted with the power to authorize torture when there is little time available to make a decision?

[bemildred]

1. Premise is wrong. The executive branch cannot be trusted. nt

[Boojatta]

3. I didn't intend to assume that the executive branch can be trusted.

What words did I use that gave you the impression that I wished to make such an assumption?

[bemildred]

4. I see you are correct, you did not.

I was confused by your use of executive clemency in the premise, but now in reading closer I agree with your argument, it just isn't the way I would have made it.

[Eugene]

2. You have the executive as the army/police accountable only to itself.

The police can attach an urgency to ANY crime to make it
a "ticking bomb" case, supposedly to prevent harm by
"dangerous" people. Also, police impunity is a key ingredient
of a police state. Checks and balances are more important
than ever in "crisis" situations.

Also, torture is effective at extracting confessions, but it
is notoriously unreliable in getting the truth. Also, don't
expect the truth to come out any time soon. The Gitmo
"military commissions" are a case in point. Even the
detainees' claims that they were tortured are classified
in the name of national security.

Finally, torture and other police state tactics invariably
victimize innocent people. Do you sacrifice more innocent
people than you save?

[YankmeCrankme]

5. Is torture useful?

If torture is a moral and viable option than we would be using it for everything. We wouldn't need testimony under oath or being questioned by police. We could just torture the truth out of everybody.

*Substitute "enhance interrogation methods" for torture if the word torture offends you*

[Boojatta]

6. Kick

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Boojatta]

8. "Islam declared war on the west in 1979"

I think that I understand the verb in that statement, but the subject and object are unclear.

Who is included in the subject ("Islam") of that statement? Does professing to be a Muslim itself constitute an act of war?

Also, what is "the west"? For example, does it include or exclude Switzerland?