Man showing off gun at Memorial Day party accidentally shot, killed .

[Swede]

Investigators said a group of people were having a Memorial Day party in the backyard when two guests decided to show off their handguns. They were comparing their weapons when one discharged, hitting one of the men.

The victim was rushed to Ben Taub Hospital, where he later died.

http://www.khou.com/news/local/Man-shot-and-killed-at-Memorial-Day-party-122822189.html

[brewens]

1. Natural selection. n/t

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

3. Deleted sub-thread

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[KG]

4. nominated for Darwin Awards!

:P

[hadrons]

5. Darwin Award

[sakabatou]

6. Yep

Sad for his family though.

[kestrel91316]

7. Weenie-wagging Darwin Award recipient. Yup.

[Bucky]

8. Wow, that was here in Houston. You know, the better guns come with these safety thingees

Keep mine unloaded unless I'm going to the target range. What moron brings a loaded gun out into a crowded back yard party? A moron with at least one less friend tonight, I guess.

[RamboLiberal]

11. Safetee thingies - not really

That's a fallacy. Many modern pistols, i.e. Glock, S&W and others have internal safeties - no external. Revolvers also lack an external safety.

And a gun is not something to show off unless you are at a range or other safe area and know what the F you are doing.

Bet alcohol involved. Yep, a couple of Darwin candidates.

[onehandle]

12. No, it's perfectly normal to walk around with a loaded gun.

Why even have a gun if you don't take it with you everywhere you go, loaded and ready for a Dirty Harry moment.

You 'antis' just don't get it.

[spin]

39. Actually it is perfectly normal for a number of people I know ...

to walk around with a loaded gun. These people have Florida concealed weapons permits.

None that I know are looking for a Dirty Harry moment.

Go back to watching your TV and your movies now. They obviously have taught you all you know about people who legally carry concealed.

[Ready4Change]

65. Yes, and when 'showing it off' it should be normal...

to unload it first. Ensure safety is on. Drop out the magazine. Eject any round that might be carried in the chamber. Visually ensure the chamber is clear. THEN hand it off to 'show' it, with the action open so the recipient can also visually ensure that it's clear.

I would normally object to the term 'showing it off.' But since there was a negligent discharge of the firearm I suspect the term may be well applied in this case.

[spin]

89. That is basic gun safety...

if you follow the basic rules you will avoid an accident.

If you don't then you bear the responsibility for the results.

[RSillsbee]

104. You don't "show off" loaded guns

If you are carrying a firearm for self defense it stays holstered unless you are in dire need.

[creeker]

119. I am NOT an anti---MY weapon stays holstered until needed

A party is not the place to "show off" yer weapon

[TheWraith]

78. As noted, many guns don't have external safeties these days, notably Glocks.

I agree that a GOOD gun should have a safety.

However, there's several much more important problems here.

1. He was handling a loaded gun when he had no intention of firing it. First thing you should do if you're NOT going to be firing the gun is dump the magazine and clear the chamber.

2. He was doing so apparently around a crowd of people.

3. Guns don't "accidentally" go off, so this genius had to have his finger on the trigger. That, or he pulled the trigger without checking whether the gun was loaded.

4. I'm guessing that they had also been drinking, which is yet another thing you shouldn't do when handling weapons.

Personally I keep all of mine with a full magazine, empty chamber: that way they're easily chambered if I need them, but completely proof against negligent discharge.

[spin]

90. I remember one time my step father handed me a .45 auto ...

I asked him, "Is it loaded?"

He replied, "No."

I dropped the magazine and pulled the slide back and amazingly a round was ejected.

He had been around firearms all his life but being familiar with firearms doesn't mean that you can ignore the basic safety rules.

[sharesunited]

9. I am very sorry for guns and ammo in the hands of the public.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flvegan]

13. I feel sorrow for the loss felt by the family and loved ones of the deceased.

Though I see that DUers have checked in with their usual, thus far. Shame that.

A man is dead, people mourn, yet folks will continue to yammer on about guns v penis size, etc. Stay classy.

[kentauros]

16. Thank you for saying and noticing that!

I feel the same way.

I really wish we could excise the "Darwin Awards" meme from our general consciousness. It's really idiotic, especially for anyone calling themselves "compassionate".

[flvegan]

28. When it comes to guns

compassion on DU died a long time ago. Sorry to say that, but it's the truth. I realized that some time ago when I, as a militant vegan, was the one sole person who found sorrow for a hunter who had removed himself from the living. Rather than applauding his death even though it meant he'd kill no more animals, I recognize that people suffer. Applauding their suffering was too far beneath me.

Compassion is looking beyond your self. Considering others. It's lost here all to often.

Hope you see this before it gets deleted, kentauros.

[kentauros]

29. I just read it, and have a similar story, though from another board.

Namely, a vegetarian board, where a story was posted of a young man dying when he choked on the tiny fish he'd just caught and decided to swallow it whole, versus letting it go. He was with his buds, so it's assumed he was showing off.

Of course, the comments of "Darwin Awards" and so forth were immediately posted, yet I was shot down for showing some compassion for both the fish and the human. I don't post to that board any more for that and other reasons (too many conservatives there.)

I chuckled at your "militant vegan" comment, so maybe your post will survive :hi:

[RSillsbee]

40. My compassion is limited to wounded vets (vets in general)

little kids and fuzzy bunny. A grown man dumb enough to play w/ a gun ( Like the idiot that put one in my ass (literally) many years ago) not so much

[kentauros]

43. So, no general compassion for your fellow human beings?

As a liberal, I can find compassion for anyone, in any situation, and I consider that one of our tenets. It matters not how they died or who they were, but that we show compassion anyway, and that we genuinely feel it.

Of course, this may be too difficult of a concept for many to accept, but I have no problem doing so.

[RSillsbee]

47. Then I'm sure you'll be very compassionate

when I tell you I can't.

Stupid should hurt and in his case it did

[kentauros]

49. I can't say I'm all that compassionate of your sentiments

for your fellow man, but I can still hold compassion towards you as a human being. That doesn't mean I must agree with you, only that I can give you my sympathy and/or love. You do understand that's what the word means or at least implies, right?

Here's the etymology and then the definition, so you at least know how we got the word ;)

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=compassion
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/compassion
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/compassionate

[cleanhippie]

54. I guess you must just be a better person than everyone else.

:puke:

[kentauros]

56. Or perhaps

I strive to be a better person. Don't you?

[cleanhippie]

57. No, you are just better than the rest of us.

Its plain for everyone to see.

[kentauros]

59. Okay, thanks!

:hi:

[cleanhippie]

61. Your welcome.

When is your next class in sanctimonious diatribe?

[kentauros]

62. I would say it will be the very next time

that you misread my intent. Or, more likely, the next time you're a judgmental arse towards someone :hi:

Now, notice that while I'm being uncivil in response to your similar incivility to me, if you are ever in need, I will still be able to have sympathy and compassion for you. Or do I need to spell it out more plainly than even that?

[cleanhippie]

63. Oh, no need, you have been quite clear already.

Perhaps you need to talk to yourself in the mirror the next time you call someone a judgmental arse. :hi:

[kentauros]

64. Oh, no need to do that at all,

as it take quite a lot of judgmental attitude to call someones' appeal for more compassion a "diatribe" :hi:

[cleanhippie]

71. You seem to have left one word out.

Sanctimonious appeal for more compassion.

But I have taken notes, I may try your approach.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

19. I feel sorry for the fact they will spend the rest of their lives saying.....

"If I had only been that asshole who says put those things away and please leave, they'd still be alive."

[flvegan]

27. You really think that's what they'll be thinking?

Good luck with that.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

30. If they were there, they will

It's human nature to say after the fact "If only I'd said or done something".

Unfortunately, we only actually do it with children. And sometimes not even then.

[hifiguy]

35. I have no compassion for stupidity like this.

You DO NOT light a match to peer into a gas tank to see if there is any gas in it.

You DO NOT reach under a lawn mower or stick your hand in a snow blower while the engine is running.

You DO NOT jump into the bear pit or lion cage at the zoo after stuffing meat in your pockets.

You DO NOT monkey around with loaded guns at a backyard party.

I save my compassion for people who are victimized through no fault of their own and do not waste it on people who consciously do things that no one with a grain of horse sense would do.

[ileus]

37. If only every firearm owner were to shoot themselves or a friend right?

[dionysus]

14. some on this thread should be ashamed becaused they laughed at someone losing their life.

[struggle4progress]

26. +

[ileus]

38. most people consider firearm owners the enemy, and approve of their deaths.

[gejohnston]

58. I noticed that too. It's called respectable bigotry

[Scout]

73. as do some/many "gun enthusiasts," of "goblins"....

"approve of their deaths"

[eqfan592]

116. Actually, i think...

...they are aproving, generally speaking, of the victims defending themselves.

[aikoaiko]

15. Four simple rules.

1. All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)
3. Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target. This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.
4. Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.

[onehandle]

17. What kind of targets are at Memorial Day parties?

One simple rule.

1. Don't take a loaded gun to a fucking party.

[aikoaiko]

31. was there fucking at this party?

:rofl:

[ChrisBorg]

18. N/S

And that doesn't stand for nice shot.

[guitar man]

36. Rule number 5

this is actually my first rule. "Before you unlock the liquor cabinet, lock up the gun cabinet"

[xchrom]

20. How interesting. People w/ guns accidentally shooting each other. Nt

[nebenaube]

23. Soon to be a regular event in Wisconsin... n/t

[eqfan592]

41. It's not really a regular event anywhere...

....even in the majority of states that allow CCW. Stupid people do stupid things sometimes. Does that invalidate the usefulness of a practice that somebody partaking of that practice in an unsafe manner had an accident? No. Not by itself anyway.

Wisconsin has long had open carry, and now soon legal concealed carry. It will unlikely have no impact on the crime rate, but it is an extension of civil liberties to its people, and last time I checked good progressives generally supported extensions of civil liberties.

[nebenaube]

72. Open carry?

Bullshit, the gun has to be in a case and the ammo must be in a separate case. Even holds for the Bow. Walk around Eau Claire with a gun... I dare you!

[PavePusher]

81. Perfectly legal.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/

Click on Wisconsin and learn.

[PavePusher]

97. Also:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/forum.php

And scroll down to the Wisconsin forum.

Be sure to tell them what you said here, they don't seem to understand the law... Have fun!

[eqfan592]

102. As others have already pointed out...

....you clearly do not have a good understanding of the firearm laws in Wisconsin, at least when it comes to open carry. I would have no issues walking around Eau Claire open carrying as the state AG has already made it very clear to local law enforcement that they are not to harass people who are exercising their right to carry openly. This was after several such incidents that made local law enforcement and the state look very bad.

Are you from Wisconsin? If so, I really have to wonder how much attention you pay to the news in the state. A lot of this has happened in the last couple of years (the AG thing, not open carry, which has been legal for a very long time).

[Aristus]

21. I guess he won't do that again...

n/t

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Electric Monk]

24. If only the victim had been packing too, he could've defended himself.

Oops, never mind :hide:

[struggle4progress]

25. Sorry to hear that: k thx bai!

[Javaman]

32. Holiday Darwinism.

Beer and guns still don't mix well.

[Shagbark Hickory]

33. Because you never know when you're going to need a gun at a cookout.

This is why we need some clear guidelines that help people understand where their guns should and shouldn't be used.

[eqfan592]

42. Um, we do.

And the vast majority of people understand and follow them, including those who conceal carry. These people were not following even basic firearm safety guidelines. Such an event could easily have happened on private property with or without concealed carry.

It is ONLY on this issue that people that call themselves progressives see people doing something stupid with a right have a knee jerk, "WE NEED MORE REGULATIONS" type reaction, and it simply baffles me.

Accidents among gun owners have been on the decline for many years, but they will never be fully eliminated. We can work at it, but we do NOT need more "guidelines."

[Shagbark Hickory]

44. So you're saying "these people were not following even basic safety guidelines" yet you go on to say

"we do NOT need more guidelines."

:shrug: I guess I'm confused. Please make up your mind.

Do not bring your gun to a cookout seems like a good guideline to me!
What do you need it for?

[RSillsbee]

48. If they didn't follow the basics

why will they follow your (stricter) guidelines ?

[eqfan592]

51. Bingo.

That's exactly the point I was getting at. If these guys stuck to the basics, it wouldn't have been an issue in the first place. If they couldn't do that much, then clearly it was only a matter of time before something like this happened.

Thankfully incidents such as this continue to become more and more rare, in spite of the increase in the number of firearms in public circulation. That's a sign that I think we are at least doing something right when it comes to firearm safety training. But I think we could do more in that area.

[Shagbark Hickory]

53. My guidelines would keep guns out of the hands of people like that to begin with though.

[cleanhippie]

55. Who are the "people like that" you are referring to?

How would they be pre-indentified as "people like that?"

[rrneck]

60. Easy. They are poor. nt

[Shagbark Hickory]

67. People that bring guns to a cookout. nt

[rrneck]

68. Would you bring a gun to a cook out? nt

[Shagbark Hickory]

69. Probably.

Hence I should not own a gun either.

[rrneck]

70. Suit yourself.

But you seem OK to me.

[Shagbark Hickory]

74. Things aren't always what they seem. Which is why we so badly need some common sense gun regulations

nt

[rrneck]

75. Yeah

but having "common sense regulations" that don't infringe on people's rights or get them killed is tough. A proactive government is best concerned with making better people than with assuming the worst of them.

[Shagbark Hickory]

76. Guns should be required to be a minimum of 48" long.

And musket balls must be used as ammunition.

[oneshooter]

80. Round ball or Minie ball? n/t

[PavePusher]

83. And you posted this on parchment, written in quill pen....

riding you horse to the door of the town hall, amIrite?

[Shagbark Hickory]

84. That's my interpretation of what the forefathers who wrote the constitution meant.

[PavePusher]

93. Yes, Luddites before their time, I'm sure.... n/t

[rrneck]

85. LOL I don't think that'll work.

The fashion industry would shit.

[Shagbark Hickory]

86. Guns shouldn't be fashionable.

They should be tools for defending one's country against her majesty's army or for hunting for food.

[rrneck]

91. All you have to do

is come up with a firearm free self defense solution.

Got one?

[Shagbark Hickory]

94. Stun guns, bows and arrows, crossbows, knives, swords, martial arts, pepper spray.

These are some tools that can be used for self defense, sport, hunting.
The beauty of these tools are that for the most part, you get a do-over if you mess up.

[PavePusher]

95. Sure, cause if you have to do a "do-over" with a cross-bow, the mugger you missed....

will have plenty of time to stab/beat/burn/whatever-you to death before you can get a second shot off.... And no-one with a physical handicap ever had to defend themselves, or someone facing multiple attackers, or....

Just make sure you limit your police force to those same weapons, and also take away their phones, radios, cars and tasers. Give'em truncheons and knives... no-one ever abused those.

"do-over"? Fucking seriously? You've been playing too many video games, kid.

[Shagbark Hickory]

105. Or we can go back to the firearms of yore.

What are you so afraid of getting attacked for? It sounds like you're the one playing too many video games.

[rrneck]

98. All you have to do

is make them work for the elderly, disabled or just out of shape against multiple attackers.

[Shagbark Hickory]

106. Why are you so afraid of getting attacked? Do you live in a high crime area?

You should feel safer if firearms have been more carefully regulated.
The elderly and disabled can just as easily use stun guns, tasers, and CS spray. And more safely at that. Because like I said, if you mess up with any of these, you get a do-over where as if you try to be a hot shot and pull out a gun at a mugger and the mugger is a little quicker and uses the gun against you, it's the end of the road.

[rrneck]

108. All you have to do

is answer the question.

How would tasers and stun guns work with multiple attackers who might be wearing heavy clothing and eye protection?

I don't carry a gun. But I do care enough about the victims of crime to avoid offering up flippant solutions to life and death situations to satisfy my own egotistical ideology.

I don't fear for my own safety, but I do fear for the safety of others. If you shared that concern you'd produce an actual solution instead of defensive snark and vapid sophistry.

[Shagbark Hickory]

109. What if the attackers are all wearing bullet proof vests?

You're asking how is a taser going to help you shoot multiple people at a time that are wearing heavy clothing and eye protection, correct?
Well in that scenario, yeah you'll need a gun, an automatic or semi automatic weapon.

But it's a rather unlikely scenario, one that doesn't bode well for a victim who is all by themselves, gun or no gun.
In fact a gun will make the situation that much more volatile because of one of the attackers gets ahold of it, then they may use it against the victim.

So I can think of dozens of scenarios where the other weapons would be more effective and likewise I'm sure you can think of many unrealistic scenarios where they won't.

So suffice it to say if you have kids and they are bored one day and they start rummaging through your belongings, despite all the education they've been given on gun safety, what would you rather them start playing with? A gun or a bow and arrow?

[rrneck]

111. All you have to do

is assume responsibility for your policy proposals.

What solution do you offer to replace the one selected by millions of people? And what remedy do you offer when it fails?

[Shagbark Hickory]

112. I don't understand the question.

[Shagbark Hickory]

113. I'm sorry but I just noticed this thread was moved to the guns forum.

Smell ya later.

[rrneck]

114. All you have to do

is show a modicum of intellectual honesty.

Poor thing. The stress was just more than he could bear.

[PavePusher]

115. No bigotry there, no sir-ree.... n/t

[oneshooter]

117. answered wrong question

[Shagbark Hickory]

110. What if the attackers are all wearing bullet proof vests?

You're asking how is a taser going to help you shoot multiple people at a time that are wearing heavy clothing and eye protection, correct?
Well in that scenario, yeah you'll need a gun, an automatic or semi automatic weapon.

But it's a rather unlikely scenario, one that doesn't bode well for a victim who is all by themselves, gun or no gun.
In fact a gun will make the situation that much more volatile because of one of the attackers gets ahold of it, then they may use it against the victim.

So I can think of dozens of scenarios where the other weapons would be more effective and likewise I'm sure you can think of many unrealistic scenarios where they won't.

So suffice it to say if you have kids and they are bored one day and they start rummaging through your belongings, despite all the education they've been given on gun safety, what would you rather them start playing with? A gun or a bow and arrow?

[oneshooter]

118. Mozambique Double Tap

Two in the chest, one in the head. The first two stun the gunman and knock him down, the third stops him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozambique_Drill

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[oneshooter]

77. Both my Loving Wife and Myself took weapons to a cookout last Monday.

As did 150 or so other shooters. Had a Memorial Day shoot to help maintain several small cemeteries. Mostly Civil War, Spanish-American War and WW1 graves. Sits in the middle of 4 small towns and is a common graveyard for all of them.
Raised $4500 for mowing and maintenance.

200 yd bench and offhand with "as issued" weapons. Loving Wife used her favorite M1 Grand ( receiver dated March 1941) and I used a 1917 Remington (30.06) had a great time!

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Shagbark Hickory]

87. You're lucky one of them didn't accidently go off and injure or kill someone such as those in the OP

[PavePusher]

96. Lucky? Luck has nothing to do with it.

Responsibility. It's what's for... picnic time.

[eqfan592]

103. lol, you do realize that gun accidents are pretty rare, right?

They've been on the decline for decades thanks to education courses the poster you are replying to took. If you are following the basic rules of firearm safety, then nobody should ever be killed on accident. But as with anything else in life, sometimes folks don't follow the rules and use good judgement. This is NOT, however, a good justification for significant reductions in the rights of the general population.

But given that you think the men who wrote the constitution never gave any thought to the advance of technology and you honestly believe that the constitution only applies to tech that existed back then, I doubt logical thought processes are something you are capable of. Not at least when it comes to this topic.

[oneshooter]

107. I take , by the total ignorance of your answer, that you have never been to a

controlled shooting completion. It would help if you knew what was being discussed, and had some small knowledge of it before answering.
People reading what you wrote would then realize that you are possibly not as ignorant as you are.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[rrneck]

99. Good fun for a good cause. nt

[PavePusher]

82. Oh, you have a functioning crystal ball?

Where did you get yours? Mine doesn't work for $#!*....

[Shagbark Hickory]

88. k-mart.

[PavePusher]

100. That Chinese-made junk is nifty at first...

but it never lasts.... And no-one will touch 'em with a ten-foot-wand when they go on the fritz....

[hifiguy]

34. Darwin Awards take note.

That is all.

[indepat]

45. Guns don't kill people: people kill people

:shrug:

[gejohnston]

52. In this case, dimwit killed himself. He just happened to use a gun

[Ready4Change]

66. Re-read the article, please.

States that the person holding the firearm when it discharged left the party before the police arrived, and hadn't been interview by the police yet. Police say this 'appears' to be an accident.

In other words, person A shot person B. Not person A shot him/herself.

[gejohnston]

79. My bad long day.

Person A just walked off? Glad I am not his defense lawyer.

[Ready4Change]

101. No prob. I've been there.

Yes, I suspect Person A and Mr. Detective are having a nice, long chat.

[Callisto32]

46. Ever notice how these posts....

make the weapon the actor?

[AtheistCrusader]

50. Uh-huh. Sure they were.

[ileus]

92. Funny how people celebrate when a gun owner dies, but whine otherwise.