FBI data proves anti-gunners wrong on crime

[guardian]

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7816

Preliminary crime data from the FBI for 2010 adds more evidence that gun prohibitionists have been consistently wrong, and that more guns do not equal more crime, the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms said today.

According to the FBI, all four violent crime offense categories show declines nationwide for 2010, with murder and manslaughter down 4.4 percent from 2009, robbery down 9.5 percent and aggravated assault down 3.6 percent. Forcible rape was down 4.2 percent. Violent crime declined in all four regions of the country. At the same time, according to the National Shooting Sports Foundation, firearm sales were up dramatically.

"Instead of more guns resulting in more crime," he added, "increased gun ownership just might be having the opposite effect. Of course, you'd never get the gun prohibition lobby to admit that."

The bottom line," Gottlieb stated, "is that none of the extremist predictions about blood in the streets and skyrocketing body counts as a result of increased gun ownership, reformed gun laws and expanded concealed carry have come true. Once again, the Chicken Little mentality of the anti-gun lobby has been refuted by the facts.

[lawodevolution]

1. bottom line is more guns does not equal more violence

and more gun control is not necessary, so now let's focus on how to empower the law abiding citizen.

[DWC]

2. My only concern with crime statistics is...

that I do not become one. So far, so good.

As more and more honest citizens determine not to be a victim / statistic, crime statistics will continue to decline.

Semper Fi,

[safeinOhio]

3. Same study shows that

murder and manslaughter is up 3% in major urban areas, but that doesn't count?

The better evidence is that all of those abortions in the 80s and 90s lead to fewer criminals now. Anyone that uses the higher number of guns correlation will have hell to pay if the murder rate every starts to go up. You can't have it both ways.

[krispos42]

22. But urban areas have more gun control and lower rates of gun ownership.

Hmmm...

[rl6214]

33. WTF? How do you determine this?

"The better evidence is that all of those abortions in the 80s and 90s lead to fewer criminals now."

[rbixby]

4. and more nukes don't mean more nuclear war

but do we want more of them?

[cleanhippie]

5. I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

[eqfan592]

16. Sorry, but that is a very...

...poor analogy, to put it mildly. It holds no validity whats so ever because of the extreme differences between the two subjects.

[Euromutt]

21. There are two elements to proliferation: the number of weapons, and the number and identity of users

And arguably, the latter is significantly more important than the former. It is of less concern to international peace and stability if India increases its nuclear stockpile by ten warheads than if North Korea increases its stockpile by two.

Similarly, it less of an issue when a thousand regular citizens buy guns than when a hundred muggers do.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

6. More/less guns; more/less crime.

The fear that the gun-control collective has operated under is "more guns, more crime". I would be very hesitant to claim the converse. I have heard of the work by a similar name but I choose not to have the degree to which my rights are respected tied to crime statistics.

I personally believe that the relationship between rate of lawful firearm ownership and violent crime rates is indirect and rather complex. While it is encouraging that in a time where law and government are more respecting of the RKBA, violent crime is declining, it would be unwise to wave those statistics like a banner.

Now is the time to look down the list of the control happy lobbyists and other fear-mongers and disprove their mantras.

Finding clever sounding phrases to win votes in the short term is to lay the groundwork of self-sabotage. The crime/gun relationship has many variables. As has been sited in the news many cities have recently cut the budgets and, therefore, staffs of their police and/or sheriffs departments. This will likely lead only to more confusion and accusations should violent crime be found on the increase for this year.

In the spirit of the Founders, I will not have my rights wax and wan according to the incidence of violent crime. I urge everyone to reject unreasonable gun control measures and expose the lies on which it is based.

Attorneys and statesmen played a leading role in foundation and ongoing leadership of our country. The oldest continually operating law school in the US is Harvard Law. Our current President and the current President of the Republic of China are graduates, as are six of the nine current SCOTUS justices. The Law School's crest has the Latin word "Veritas" at the top; Latin for TRUTH. The time for slogans and propaganda is over. The people deserve the truth.

[AtheistCrusader]

7. Sure wish one side or the other could post some data without editorializing the hell out of it.

I'd prefer further, that MY side took the high road.


The FBI data could have been linked without either of those bystander sources opining on 'gun prohibitionists' etc.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

8. +1 n/t

[Tuesday Afternoon]

19. +1

[GOTV]

9. Aren't those nationwide statistics? And aren't gun law changes localized?

Hasn't violent crime been decreasing nationally for decades?
It could be that cities/counties/states that loosen gun control laws experience a rise in violent crime while the nation as a whole still sees a decrease.

[spin]

13. If looser gun control law caused an increase in crime we should have seen it by now ...

Because the gun control laws have been getting looser over the last few decades throughout our nation.

Take "shall issue" gun control as an example.

[GOTV]

15. You may be right, I'm not arguing that point. I'm just saying ...

... that national trends can't really be used to support localized changes. Especially when the national trend has been unchanged for decades.

[loudsue]

10. That study is skewed to ignore other factors. Obama's election cut black-on-black crime by 60%

in the first 8 months of his presidency. I'm not saying that I wish guns were taken out of the hands of citizens....I own 2 and my husband owns 7. But this study is incomplete, at best.

[hack89]

11. Violent crime has steadily declined for 20 years

Unless you think the FBI has been lying for decades. Every year the FBI puts out a report on crime in America - take some time looking at the data and it is clear it is not a recent phenomena.


http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/ucr

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

12. I would hesitate...

...to draw conclusions. Any event preceding a drop in crime could be pointed to as a cause or influence. The converse could be claimed as well.

Disproving the myths of fascist levels gun control and revealing the truth and that its advocates are some mix of liars and sheep will advance freedom.

[PavePusher]

14. Got a cite for that? n/t

[DonP]

17. Huh? 60%? Where did that come from? Ntxt

[palmtree guy]

18. ???? seriously???

like he gave the secret signal or something??

[TheWraith]

20. Provide a citation.

Because that sounds an awful lot like bullshit.

[palmtree guy]

23. i googled that shit

9 ways to sunday and couldnt find jack shit to support it.....

[Hoyt]

24. How many violent crimes would have occurred if there were no/less guns? Sure some. But not as much.

What the stats don't show is what the crime rate would have been with appreciably less guns easily available. Guns make crime easy. Might as well address the issue of guns now, so that there are not 20, 30, 40 million more 10 or 20 years from now.

[gejohnston]

25. based on UK, Jamaica, and to a lesser degree Canada

There would be no change at best or could be worse. If the stats don't show it, what is your insight based on? It reminds me of "two gay guys getting married will affect my marriage" nonsense that the right comes up with. Guns can also make crime hard, depending on who has it.

[spin]

27. The problem is that draconian gun control laws are focused on honest citizens ...

and have little effect on the criminal element that misuses firearms.

I am in favor of laws that will make it more difficult for violent criminals to obtain, own and especially carry firearms. I am not in favor of laws which make it harder or far more expensive for honest citizens to own firearms. For example I am in favor of better funding for the NICS background check system and opening it up for private sellers. I am definitely for enforcing existing laws and treating anyone with a violent criminal background who is caught carrying an illegal firearm as having committed a serious crime. Such individuals should receive strict and appropriate punishment and not a slap on the wrist and a quick trip through the revolving door of justice. I also am in favor of anyone who is convicted of the straw purchase of firearms as being charged as an accessory to any crime committed with the weapons that were purchased.

If you can come up with ideas that make firearms less available to criminals, I'll support them.

If your ideas involve banning ownership or production of all firearms such as semi-auto firearms, the registration of all firearms or requiring all firearm owners to have to pay an enormous fee to license all their firearms then I am opposed as this does little or nothing to address the real problem which is violent criminals. Violent criminals do not obey laws while honest citizens do. Most gun control schemes disarm honest people and empower criminals.

So what are your ideas? I'm open minded and interested in reducing violent crime.

[WatsonT]

30. There is no evidence to back that claim

None. If there were you'd have posted it.

[Hoyt]

31. No evidence or rational thought is going to convince those who fear muggers behind every tree & tote

[WatsonT]

32. Let's test that theory shall we? Post some evidence or rational thoughts

and see what happens.

[DanTex]

26. LOL. Gotta love those expert scholars at "Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms"

Why bother with peer reviewed research when you've got such conclusive "evidence" straight from the pro-gun advocacy groups?

[spin]

28. So you are saying that data from the FBI is produced by pro-gun advocacy groups?

Who would have guessed. The NRA is far more powerful than I thought.

FBI Releases Preliminary Annual Crime Statistics for 2010
Washington, D.C. May 23, 2011

FBI National Press Office [phone]

According to the FBI’s Preliminary Annual Uniform Crime Report released today, the nation experienced a 5.5 percent decrease in the number of violent crimes and a 2.8 percent decline in the number of property crimes in 2010 when compared with data from 2009. The report is based on information the FBI gathered from 13,007 law enforcement agencies that submitted six to 12 comparable months of data for both 2009 and 2010.

Violent Crime

In 2010, all four of the violent crime offense categories—murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault—declined nationwide compared with data from 2009. Murder and non-negligent manslaughter declined 4.4 percent, forcible rape decreased 4.2 percent, robbery declined 9.5 percent, and aggravated assault was down 3.6 percent.

Violent crime declined in all city groups. Cities with populations of 250,000 to 499,999 saw the greatest decline in violent crime (6.9 percent). Violent crime in non-metropolitan counties decreased 6.4 percent, and in metropolitan counties, it declined 6.0 percent.

Murder and non-negligent manslaughter offenses dropped 25.2 percent in the nation’s smallest cities (under 10,000 in population). However, in cities with populations of 250,000 to 499,999, murder and non-negligent manslaughter offenses increased 3.0 percent.

***snip***

http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-preliminary-annual-crime-statistics-for-2010

[WatsonT]

29. If they could be swayed by facts they wouldn't be anti-gunners

It's as pointless as using science to convince any true believer of anything.