Bellevue v. Big Apple: SAF files for summary judgment in permit case

[Bold Lib]

New York City charges $340 every three years for what is called a “resident premises” handgun license. This allows people to have a handgun in their home. It’s not a carry permit. Currently, there are more than 335,000 active concealed pistol licenses in the Evergreen State

According to SAF, there is no reason for such a high fee, except to discourage New York City residents from exercising their constitutionally-protected individual civil right to keep and bear arms. This right was affirmed by SAF’s lawsuit against the handgun ban in Chicago last year, which incorporated Second Amendment protections to the states.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/bellevue-v-big-apple-saf-files-for-summary-judgment-permit-case

I predict another unconstitutional gun law going down in flames.

[slackmaster]

1. Democrats should oppose that law simply because it is regressive

That fee denies poor New Yorkers the possibility of keeping a gun at home.

[Hoyt]

2. The other option is to keep a rifle.

[gejohnston]

4. I am guessing that

you would not approve of the best rifle for the job. Besides, unless it is a carbine that uses pistol ammo, or an m1 carbine that are still made by Auto Ord. I would not recommend it in an apartment. Not at all New Yorkers live in apts, but still.

[Bold Lib]

6. Is that one of Volk's photos? It looks like his style but I've never

seen it before.

[gejohnston]

10. found it here

http://www.wargamer.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=520244&mpage=2#521349

[Hoyt]

13. The girl is pretty, but I'll leave it to you guys to drool over the gun.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. The girl looks about 12, so drool all you want.

The gun is a plastic piece of shit.

[DonP]

17. But ... good trigger discipline for her age Ntxt

[Hoyt]

19. What's a 12 year old doing in a gun ad? Oh, that's what sells those guns.

[gejohnston]

20. looking closer to her hands, I would say

she is closer to mid twenties or early thirties. Always look at the hands.

[Hoyt]

21. Good eye.

[PavePusher]

30. Huh? What's wrong with KelTec's?

Sheesh, gun snobbery ain't pretty no matter what the political... wing it comes out of.

[AtheistCrusader]

31. I am not a fan.

Neither of the weapon's fit and finish, nor of it's feature set/purported design. No reason you couldn't use a normal pistol in the same scenario, (it's a damn .357, with a stock, whoopee) no reason you couldn't use an infinitely cheaper shotgun, and get the same level of control, with about the same risk of overpenetration. (Particularly in a .410, if you're looking for something that can be handled by smaller recoil-averse people.)

Having held and fired it, it seems to me a fakey space-gun wannabe, engineered for a problem that doesn't exist. If you like it, cool beans, but I would never recommend it to anyone. Ever.

[PavePusher]

38. I've never even layed hands on one.

I just get amused by the reaction some people have to some weapons. One man's tool is another man's recyclable waste, I suppose.

[Bold Lib]

46. They're not pretty and have lots of plastic parts. That said they come with a lifetime

warranty (and they really do stand behind it) and I've never heard of any function problems from anyone that has owned one. If you are on a very tight budget I'd recommend them. Inexpensive, great warranty, and they work.

[PavePusher]

49. Actually, I just picked up a used, first-generation HiPoint 9mm carbine.

With a 4X scope. That thing is a hoot and a half, and dead accurate at 50 yards. Haven't tried 100yards yet, maybe this weekend...

One of my former airmen has the current gen .45 version, with multiple rails and a red-dot sight. Much fun as well.

[oneshooter]

50. The HiPoint 995 carbine is my Loving Wife's house carbine

Has fed anything I have in 9mm without a hiccup. Put a inexpensive BSA red dot on it. Currently loaded with Federal +P Hydros.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[eqfan592]

56. Also have a HiPoint 995 here!

Picked up the new stock for mine when the came out, which works very nicely. It's the only rifle my wife has shot yet, and she was good with it. One of my favorite firearms for sure, and you can't beat the price!

[krispos42]

40. Not a fan of pigtails, even braided, nor of the lean body type

And I think I'd rather have a Ruger PC9... something I can use to butt-stroke if things get really close.


But if it works for her, then my personal preference doesn't mean shit.

[Hoyt]

22. Another gun manufacturer hawking their tactical/military weapons to the gun obsessed.

Is that what turns on most of those who covet such weapons? I've long felt that anyone attracted to those types of weapons should be barred from carrying in public -- or barred from owning guns, period.

[beevul]

23. Another speech manufacturer hawking their pejoratives to the control obsessed.

"Is that what turns on most of those who covet such control? I've long felt that anyone attracted to those types of pejoratives should be barred from speaking in public -- or barred from speaking, period."


:rofl:

[Hoyt]

24. How many do you have, or how long have you wanted one -- the rifle?

[Bold Lib]

28. OMFG!!! Did you already forget your post??? Look at post #2. It's YOURS.

I've heard of talking out of both sides of your mouth before but never seen it written down so clearly for the world to see.

[beevul]

42. LOL. Swing and a miss.

"How many do you have, or how long have you wanted one -- the rifle?"

I have three rifles, hoyt - an old winchester model 90 pump action 22 with an octagon barrel - it was my fathers birthday present from my grandfather, when he was a boy, an old sears ted williams 22 semi auto rifle, and a modern bull barrel scoped 17 hmr - thats .17 caliber. THE HORROR!!! :sarcasm:

How long have I wanted one?


I really don't


I spend my money on things like Gigabyte motherboards, intel core I5 2600k cpus, solid state drives, and DDR3 2133+ ram - thats "assault hardware" in the computing arena, in case you are as ignorant about computer hardware as you are about guns.

Sucks when people who don't want the things you rail against still oppose you, doesn't it?

[gejohnston]

25. see post two, I was right.

so, what kind of rifle do you suggest? Why should anyone take self defense suggestions from someone that does not know what they are talking about? Or care?

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[benEzra]

27. Might want to make up your mind...

The other option is to keep a rifle.

...

Is that what turns on most of those who covet such weapons? I've long felt that anyone attracted to those types of weapons should be barred from carrying in public -- or barred from owning guns, period.

Make up your mind. Are you saying that keeping a small rifle instead of a pistol at home is acceptable, or not?

If you're going to keep a rifle in the home, why wouldn't you use gun shooting smaller, lower-energy bullets rather than high-powered hunting rifles? A rifle optimized for dropping 300-pound animals in their tracks from a thousand feet away is a pretty lousy in-home gun.

And I'd love to know what military force on this planet you think uses non-automatic 9mm Kel-Tec carbines. Those are exclusively civilian guns.


(And "coveting"? Seriously?) :eyes:

[Bold Lib]

29. OMFG!!! Did you already forget your post??? Look at post #2. It's YOURS.

I've heard of talking out of both sides of your mouth before but never seen it written down so clearly for the world to see.

[ileus]

36. It's not tactical or military...just black.

[ileus]

35. I have a S2k.....wife and kids love to shoot it. It's a load of fun.

I modified my ruger p89 magazines to work in it....it's a great little gun but requires a lot of cleaning.

[TheWraith]

5. New York City places the same restrictions on rifles and shotguns. nt

[ileus]

37. Not everyone wants to go thru the SBR process...

[Atypical Liberal]

44. Why not a pistol?

There is no doubt that there are other firearms that can be used for home defense. Rifles, carbines, and shotguns can all be used.

But why not a pistol? If I'm lawfully able to keep a long arm in my home, why should I have to pay the state $340 to keep a pistol in my home?

[virginia mountainman]

3. Sounds like a "poll tax" to me...

And about as legal...

[Bold Lib]

7. yup

and yup again.

[spin]

8. The New York City guns laws are based on racism ...

Sullivan Act

The Sullivan Act, also known as the Sullivan Law, is a controversial gun control law in New York State. Upon first passage, the Sullivan Act required licenses for New Yorkers to possess firearms small enough to be concealed. Possession of such firearms without a license was a misdemeanor, carrying them was a felony. The possession or carrying of weapons such as brass knuckles, sandbags, blackjacks, bludgeons or bombs was a felony, as was possessing or carrying a dagger, "dangerous knife" or razor "with intent to use the same unlawfully". Named for its primary legislative sponsor, state senator Timothy Sullivan, a notoriously corrupt Tammany Hall politician, it dates to 1911, and is still in force, making it one of the older existing gun control laws in the United States.

***snip***

Many believe the act was to discriminate against immigrants in New York, particularly Italians, as the first person arrested under the law was mobster Giuseppe Costabile <1>

Whether this was part of the law's intent, it was passed on a wave of anti-immigrant rhetoric as a measure to disarm an alleged criminal element. The police granted the licenses, and could easily discriminate against "undesirable" elements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullivan_Act

Gun Control: White Man's Law
by William R. Tonso

***snip***

Attempts to regulate the possession of firearms began in the northern states during the early part of the 20th century, and although these regulations had a different focus from those that had been concocted in the South, they were no less racist and elitist in effect or intent. Rather than trying to keep handguns out of the price range that blacks and the poor could afford, New York's trend-setting Sullivan Law, enacted in 1911, required a police permit for legal possession of a handgun. This law made it possible for the police to screen applicants for permits to posses handguns, and while such a requirement may seem reasonable, it can and has been abused.

Members of groups not in favor with the political establishment or the police are automatically suspect and can easily be denied permits. For instance, when the Sullivan Law was enacted, southern and eastern European immigrants were considered racially inferior and religiously and ideologically suspect. (Many were Catholics or Jews, and a disproportionate number were anarchists or socialists.) Professor L. Kennett, coauthor of the authoritative history The Gun in America, has noted that the measure was designed to "strike hardest at the foreign-born element," particularly Italians. Southern and eastern European immigrants found it almost impossible to obtain gun permits.

Over the years, application of the Sullivan Law has become increasingly elitist as the police seldom grant handgun permits to any but the wealthy or the politically influential. A beautiful example of this hypocritical elitism is the fact that while the New York Times often editorializes against the private possession of handguns, the publisher of that newspaper, Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, has a hard-to-get permit to own and carry a handgun. Another such permit is held by the husband of Dr. Joyce Brothers, the pop psychologist who has claimed that firearms ownership is indicative of male sexual inadequacy.
http://www.guncite.com/journals/gun_control_wtr8512.html

Lifestyles of the rich and packin': High-profile celebrities seeking gun permits on the rise
Monday, September 27th 2010, 4:00 AM


Never fear J.Lo - your husband Marc Anthony is one of dozens of celebrities authorized to carry a concealed weapon in New York City.

J.Lo and her 2-year-old twins can rest easy at night: Daddy is packing heat.

Singer Marc Anthony is one of dozens of celebs, millionaires and high-profile athletes authorized to carry a concealed weapon in the city, records show.

***snip***

Other big names licensed to carry a gun include actor Robert De Niro, shock jock Howard Stern and supermarket mogul John Catsimatidis. Billionaire Donald Trump and his son, Donald Jr.; celebrity lawyer David Breitbart, and artificial-heart inventor Robert Jarvik can also carry steel, police records reveal.

Mets third-baseman David Wright has a permit to keep a gun in his city penthouse. Martha Stewart's daughter, radio host Alexis Stewart, also has a permit.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/09/27/2010-09-27_celebrities_seeking_pistol_permits_on_the_rise_in_the_city_lifestyles_of_rich_n_.html#ixzz1QVEPuXGn

[TheWraith]

9. And these days, elitism.

You can get a carry permit very easily if you're rich, powerful, or a former cop. Anyone else gets told to fuck off.

[damntexdem]

11. Good for NYC! May this law stay on the books and be enforced forever!

Thanks for the idea of a law to push for in other localities.

[gejohnston]

12. That is what "America's mayor" Rudy said before he decided to go national

So I guess that makes you a Giuliani Republican?

[spin]

14. So are you rich or famous?

Or do you believe only the rich and famous should have the opportunity to own firearms because they are superior to rest of us?

I'm sure the rich and famous will agree with you.

[Bold Lib]

15. Like I said. I predict that this unconstitutional law will go down in flames.

So how much do you think it should cost to cast a vote? I'm sure the teabagers will love your idea.

[DonP]

18. The NRA Thanks You for future contributions to their legal fund

With "Friends of Rudy like you, they will do fine in the next few years.

$360,000 paid to them by the City of San Francisco for their handgun ban, $3.2 million for the Heller case going to Gura and others, and now around $3 million to the NRA and the ISRA for the McDonald decision.

When you lose a civil rights case you pay the attorneys fees. Thanks to really great advice like yours they'll have a another decade of strong legal funding.

[Straw Man]

32. What law is that?

We're talking about exorbitant permit fees here. Now there's a progressive value: "We'll just make it too expensive so the wrong type of people can't get them."

[mikeb302000]

33. Good topic - down in flames, huh?

Speaking of the "constitutionally-protected individual civil right to keep and bear arms" (you forgot god-given, by the way), I just posted about this today.

What Do We Really Think about the 2nd Amendment?

http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2011/06/what-do-we-really-think-about-2nd.html

[PavePusher]

39. Sheesh, spamming DKos isn't enough for you...? n/t

[Remmah2]

41. The argument is an epic fail that is stuck in the mud.

Time to move on and be progressive about the issue.

[beevul]

43. Yep. Just like your arguments on your blog.

THE Conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution

http://billofrights.org

First , what do the above words mean?

Second, why would you post a link to your blog, where you get thoroughly and repeatedly owned?

[mikeb302000]

51. I don't know what you mean

by "owned." What I do on my blog is present an opinion about gun control and gun rights. Why do you have a problem with that? Do you have some psychological need for everyone to agree with you?

[beevul]

53. Not a gamer, apparently.

"I don't know what you mean by "owned." "

Owned is a slang word<1><2> that originated among 1990s hackers, where it referred to "rooting" or gaining administrative control over someone else's computer.<3><4>

The term's original usage was close to that of the traditional meaning of the word "own" - for instance, "I owned the network at MIT" indicated that the speaker had cracked the servers and had the same root-level privileges that the legitimate owner of the servers had. Some more examples are,"I owned you" and,"You got owned". "Owned", a later variant, became more common in the late 1990s, as did the more abstract usage referring to any compromised security mechanism. By 1997, "owned" was regularly used in website defacements,<5><6> and it subsequently spread to gaming circles, where it was used to refer to defeat in a game. For example, if a player makes a particularly impressive kill shot or wins a match by an appreciable margin in a multiplayer video game, it is not uncommon for he/she to say "owned" to the loser(s), as a manifestation of victory, a taunt, or provocation. "Ownage" has become a modern equivalent to a "Turkey shoot," such as an experienced faction verses a beginner or disadvantaged faction.

Owned has now spread beyond computer and gaming contexts and become part of standard slang, and typically follows severe defeat or humiliation, usually in an amusing way or through the dominance of an opposing party.<7> Other variations of the word owned include own3d, 0wn3d, pwned, and pooned,<7> terms which incorporate elements of leetspeak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owned





"What I do on my blog is present an opinion about gun control and gun rights."

Uh huh.

"Why do you have a problem with that?"

Presenting an opinion? I have no problem with that. The opinion being as disconnested from reality as it could possibly be, and fact based being the thing that the opinion is farthest from, I have a problem with.


"Do you have some psychological need for everyone to agree with you?"

Do you have some psychological need to mislead those who read the words you write?


Now, since you ignored it the first time - quell surprise - I'll ask again - what do the following words mean:

THE Conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution

http://billofrights.org


Come on, take a shot at it.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bold Lib]

47. "down in flames"? Not sure what you mean by that.

A few anti's have come along with their normal shtick against the part of the BoR that they don't like but they've been corrected in their errors - numerous times in fact.

As far as your rhetoric goes. . .

[mikeb302000]

52. you sound like another one

who just cannot accept a differing opinion. We desperately need proper gun control, which includes background checks on every sale, licensing of gun owners and registration of guns. You don't like that and when faced with a convincing argument about its benefits in reducing gun violence, you fall back on the 2A. That's pathetic.

[beevul]

54. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

"We desperately need proper gun control, which includes background checks on every sale, licensing of gun owners and registration of guns."

Fact: Federal court precedent holds that the government may NOT license a constitutionally protected fundamental civil right. Federal court precedent Also holds that gun ownership IS a constitutionally protected fundamental civil right.

Again, thats not opinion, thats FACT. So forget licensing gun owners.

As far as registering guns? People with opinions such as yours, have shown by example that they can not be trusted with such a thing, and will abuse it. So forget it.

As far as requiring background checks on every firearm sale? Forget it at the federal level has not been granted authority to regulate intrastate commerce. Thats a fact. A private sale of a firearm is intrastate commerce. Thats another fact. You might have very limited success at the state level, until politicians start getting shitcanned come election time, for such things.

And lastly, you attack someone for falling back on the second amendment, calling it pathetic.

In case you didn't know it, the second amendment is a restriction on government exercise of power. Thats a FACT.

When you propose government do something, and someone says NO, citing restrictions on government exercise of power...

You call that pathetic?


I guess that kind of speaks for itself, now, doesnt it.

[Bold Lib]

55. Self delete. beevul said it much better than I did, or could.

[ileus]

34. Let's hope you're right and this is bushcanned.

[Bold Lib]

48. "bushcanned". LMAO!!! I hadn't heard that before. May I use it?