(Moran) NRA Boss: Obama's Gone in 2012

[jpak]

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/06/27/nra-boss-obamas-gone-in-2012

The National Rifle Association has a rich history that goes back to shortly after the Civil War, when in 1871, Union veterans created it to train city-slicker troops who couldn't hit the side of a barn with their musket shots. But as the 4 million-strong group readies its fight to oust President Obama in 2012, it has to go back only 11 years for a battle plan. That's when the Second Amendment advocates mounted their biggest political effort ever to defeat then Vice President Al Gore by targeting key pro-gun Democratic states he needed to beat George W. Bush, like Arkansas. "We actually knocked out a presidential candidate," says new NRA President David Keene.

He tells Whispers that 2012 might be an even more critical year for the NRA. That's because the president, if re-elected, might have a chance to appoint more left-leaning Supreme Court justices who could undo Second Amendment protections and allow more gun control. "Our major goal is to defeat Obama because if he's re-elected, he's going to attempt to change the Supreme Court. All he needs is one vote and he will rewrite the Second Amendment," says Keene. "The threat," he says, "in many ways is more severe than in 2000." One reason: Obama, who slapped gun owners in his campaign, has gone quiet on gun issues as president, making it harder to rally NRA members. That was until gun foe Sarah Brady revealed in April that Obama told her he was working on the issue "under the radar."


Keene reveals that the NRA plans to mobilize its troops with the hopes of taking away three to five states Obama won in 2008. Keene and Wayne LaPierre, the gun group's executive vice president, plan a massive education campaign that he says will warn members about an Obama second term. He also says the NRA is seeking to register the up to 25 million gun owners not signed up to vote. He figures getting 5 million to 10 million to the polls would change the election's outcome. "We know how they'll vote," he says.

Keene also wants to add more women and younger shooters to the roster and to corral traditionally conservative home-school families. "I'm trying to make sure that there will be just as many people involved in the shooting sports next generation as this," he says.

<more>

Wayne LaPierre - Uber-Moran Dumbass

David Keene - Uber-Moran Dumbass

The Dumbass Dynasty lives on

yup

[Drale]

1. Fuck the NRA

[Loudmxr]

2. Pres Obama who allowed guns in Nat'l parks. Good luck with that!!!???

BTW I saw an interview with Ken Blackwell who refused to acknowledge this change in Park policy.

Facts and reality means nothing to these people.

[GreenStormCloud]

13. That was a rider to a must-pass credit card reform bill.

To get the credit card reform he had to swallow guns-in-parks.

[ileus]

46. The only good part of the bill actually.

[gejohnston]

60. There were a couple of other good things in it

but I would like to have seen stiffer limits on amount of interest they can charge.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eqfan592]

4. What a load of horse shit.

Simply saying that the NRA is actually right about a few things is far from "kissing its ass." It also does a hell of a lot of good in terms of firearms safety education, and has likely saved a hell of a lot more lives because of these education programs than the Brady Campaign has even come close to with their extreme idiocy.

You fail to see the distinction between these two sides of the NRA, and your desire to have opposing viewpoints suppressed only serves to underscore how amazingly REgressive you are.

[Cirque du So-What]

5. You wanna toss their sallit, that's none of my beeswax

but on a board set up BY Democrats FOR Democrats, I see open advocacy for an organization with a mission statement of getting the fucking Republicans elected as giving aid & comfort to the fucking enemy. Deal.

[eqfan592]

8. Wow, way to completely ignore pretty much everything I said.

You are clearly incapable of rational discussion on the topic. Good evening.

[Cirque du So-What]

9. Well...

BYE!

[eqfan592]

21. Oh the sweet, sweet irony...

...which I'm sure is completely lost on somebody such as yourself.

:rofl: :hi:

[petronius]

24. Are you still here? I thought Curly Bill told you to go...

[GreenStormCloud]

12. The NRA will support a Democrat if that Democrat supports guns.

They are a single issue organization and take no stand on other issues. If the Democratic Party would drop its opposition to 2A issues the NRA would embrace Democrats.

[eqfan592]

17. I wish I could say I agree with that...

...but I've seen the NRA come out on other issues beyond guns in the past, such as campaign finance reform. The political arm of the NRA is very much screwed up at times, but this doesn't detract from the safety and training information and programs they offer IMHO.

[DonP]

47. FWIW the NRA was on the same side as the ACLU on the Campaign Finance Reform issue

They both took part in a legal action trying to get parts of the bill overturned in SCOTUS.

[GreenStormCloud]

56. Any organization will attempt to defend its own power.

That bill would have required to NRA to disclose its membership list to the general public. The NRA needed to protect the privacy of its members. So they had to take a position on a non-gun issue.

[eqfan592]

80. I was talking about mccain/feingold.

I've been on there email list for some time and they took a pretty harsh stance on it (and RF) that left a bad taste in my mouth.

[tortoise1956]

26. Foul!

First of all, this is not my father's NRA. When I was growing up, their main focus was on recreational gun use and safety training. In my family, you didn't TOUCH a gun until you had passed their gun safety course.

they started going wrong about 25 or so years ago when the Democratic party actively pursued gun bans and passed idiotic laws that didn't really affect criminals, but put outrageous burdens on legal owners. The NRA started supporting politicians who were fighting gun control, which was mostly the RW. This led to the national board swinging heavily to the right, and set the stage for the current crop of ideologues who run it now. I was a member in my youth, but no longer. I consistently tell their phone telemarketers to leave me the hell alone. Maybe some day they'll get the message...

And just who the hell here is advocating for the NRA? I don't see that in any of these posts, and don't remember seeing it in the past on this board. Are you sure you're not letting your perceptions color the message we're putting out?

[SteveW]

74. The gun-control movement MADE the modern NRA. nt

[rl6214]

27. WRONG WRONG AND WRONG

They don't have a mission statement of "getting the fucking Republicans elected"

From their website:


Established in 1990, the NRA Foundation, Inc., is a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization that raises tax-deductible contributions in support of a wide range of firearms-related public interest activities of the National Rifle Association of America and other organizations that defend and foster the Second Amendment rights of all law-abiding Americans. These activities are designed to promote firearms and hunting safety, to enhance marksmanship skills of those participating in the shooting sports, and to educate the general public about firearms in their historic, technological and artistic context.

I don't see anything there about electing Republicans so your statement was a lie.

They will endorse either party that is willing to promote the activities listed above.

[tortoise1956]

29. Another point about the NRA...

They will support any politician who demonstrates support for the second amendment. Case in point, in the last election they supported Harry Reid here in Nevada....at least until he started getting a little wishy-washy about 2A rights. Look it up online.

So love 'em or hate 'em, but don't misrepresent their purpose - which is keeping the 2A alive and well.

[RSillsbee]

30. giving aid & comfort to the fucking enemy.

but on a board set up BY Democrats FOR Democrats, I see open advocacy for an organization with a mission statement of getting the fucking Republicans elected as giving aid & comfort to the fucking enemy. Deal.

Paul Helmke (R Moran)
Josh Sugerman (R Moran and an FFL BTW)
Sarah Brady (R Moran)
James ( the vegatable) Brady ( R moran)

Deal.

[Hangingon]

45. The NRA mission statement....

Established in 1990, the NRA Foundation, Inc., is a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization that raises tax-deductible contributions in support of a wide range of firearms-related public interest activities of the National Rifle Association of America and other organizations that defend and foster the Second Amendment rights of all law-abiding Americans. These activities are designed to promote firearms and hunting safety, to enhance marksmanship skills of those participating in the shooting sports, and to educate the general public about firearms in their historic, technological and artistic context.

Nothing about either party only the issue

[Cirque du So-What]

51. The BBB doesn't have 'support repugs' in their mission statement either

but you don't have to be Nostradumbass to figure out which candidates they support without exception. You're wasting your breath trying to convince me that the NRA is anything other than an appendage of the fucking repug party and a lobbying org for gun manufacturers & distributors. You wanna carry their water? Be my guest! Just don't try to blow smoke up my ass by insisting that the NRA is just a buncha gool ol' boys who want to promote gun safety or somesuch shit. There are tons of other orgs that can pick up the slack where that's concerned - all without supporting fucking repugs like the NRA does.

[Hangingon]

52. You don't have to be Nostradumbass to figure out the NRA

supports those who support the second amendment. It is not the gun industry's lobby. I'll bet the BBB supports lots of small business owned by democrats.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gejohnston]

59. You have the BBB confused with the US Chamber of Commerce

not to be confused with local chambers.

[Cirque du So-What]

61. OK, you got me

I intended to say US Chamber of Commerce, but in the heat of the argument slipped up & said BBB. I was just looking for an example to illustrate my assertion that a national org may not have a formal 'mission statement' of supporting Republicans exclusively, but that's the reality of what they're doing.

[gejohnston]

62. I doubt if the Chamber would give a dime to Ron Paul or

Pat Buchannan any more than they would give to Bernie Sanders or Alan Grayson.

[rl6214]

65. NRA---NRA-ILA

DO YOU KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.

[RSillsbee]

68. The VPC doesn't have 'support repugs' in their mission statement either

but you don't have to be Nostradumbass to figure out which candidates they support without exception. You're wasting your breath trying to convince me that the VPC is anything other than an appendage of the fucking repug party and a lobbying org for Authorians . You wanna carry their water? Be my guest! Just don't try to blow smoke up my ass by insisting that the VPC is just a buncha gool ol' boys who want to promote gun safety or somesuch shit. There are tons of other orgs that can pick up the slack where that's concerned - all without supporting fucking repugs like the VPC.

[Atypical Liberal]

72. In the 2010 election the NRA gave my Democratic candidates high marks.

In the 2010 election, all of my Democratic candidates except one had high marks from the NRA, and three of them were the endorsed candidate. I voted for all of them except the one with the F rating. You can see my ballot in my sig.

The NRA supports Democrats who support the second amendment.

Every and any Democrat, including President Obama, could turn the NRA into its biggest champion overnight, simply by adopting an unambiguous pro-firearms stance, and back it up with legislative history.

My personal suspicion is that President Obama is not going to touch the firearm issue until and unless he wins a second term.

[mysuzuki2]

11. horseshit ?

he who first smelt it, dealt it.

[eqfan592]

18. Yes, horseshit.

Anybody who wishes to suppress other opinions on important issues is completely full of it and is NOT a progressive by any stretch of the imagination. I find such attitudes to be beyond disgusting. End of story.

[mikeb302000]

32. actually that's wrong

I believe the Eddie Eagle system of training has encouraged stupid gun owners to leave their guns unsecured. After all the kiddies have been taught what to do and what not to do with the gun, right. This has led to more gun incidents not less, all because of the gun fetishism that runs rampant.

[beevul]

34. Please, explain.

"I believe the Eddie Eagle system of training has encouraged stupid gun owners to leave their guns unsecured."

"This has led to more gun incidents not less..."



Please explain, I'd love to hear it.

[gejohnston]

40. Yes, what do you base this belief on? Eddie Eagle

is based on Billy Hook created by New Zealand's Mountain Safety Council. The program is now operated by police departments.

[DonP]

48. Are you unhinged?

Or do you just spend a lot of time sitting in a little room by yourself thinking up crap like this?

I'm gonna take a wild guess that "I believe" is the sum total of your support for the idea that the leading youth forearm safety program in the US is responsible for more accidental children's deaths and injuries?

[GreenStormCloud]

57. WRONG!! The incident rate is declining.

You don't get to use your imagination to make up stuff and then base an argument on what you made up.

Go to the CDC WISQARS page and see for yourself.
Firearms injuries to children age 0 to 12, annually:
2001 - 643
2002 - 512

2004 - 387
2005 - 280

2009 - 286

I didn't feel like doing all the years. You can see that a drop from 643 to 286 is a signifigant reduction. You may wish to notice that this drop has happened during a strong expansion of the number of people with CCW permits, and with a strong increase in gun sales, and a loosening of gun control laws.

[friendly_iconoclast]

63. "I believe". They do love their faith-promoting rumors, don't they?

Further proof that gun control does not attract the best and the brightest, nowadays.

[mikeb302000]

69. My ideas are based on a number of things

I've read a lot from both sides of the argument, looked at many statisitcs, can recall my own experiences with guns. In addition I'm in the process of raising three kids and have the experience of having been a kid myself.

Rather than repeating the same old talking points of one side or the other, which too many people do, I try to use my own best judgment, and call it like I see it.

It's my opinion that you cannot adequately protect kids from their innate curiosity and in older kids their stupidity and rebelliousness. The only hope is to KEEP GUNS AWAY from them. If you deny this, then you actually increase the problem by relying on the teaching instead of the only guaranteed factor, the KEEPING GUNS AWAY from them.

[GreenStormCloud]

70. I used to be a kid too. Dad gave me a shotgun when I was eleven.

I, and all the kids that I knew, grew up with guns in their homes. They weren't kept in steel safes but were usually hanging on a gun rack in a bedroom, or standing in a corner in the closet. We were taught gun safety from when we were in diapers. Guns were not an item of curiousity, they were simply another tool that was dangerous and had to be handled carefully.

I have raised my own child to adulthood and taught her to shoot.

I don't think that you have really looked at the statistics or you would not have made the claim that gun accidents among children was rising. You have probably looked at the claims of organizations such as VPC who cheat on the numbers.

[SteveW]

76. You are faced with REAL numbers...

"The only hope is to KEEP GUNS AWAY from them. If you deny this, then you actually increase the problem by relying on the teaching instead of the only guaranteed factor, the KEEPING GUNS AWAY from them."

You are acting on prejudice and faith. Parents (and the law) can try to do what you say, but can expect only as much success as trying to keep beer, marijuana, and sex away from kids. You still have not shown how "teaching" "encourages the problem." You may not know it, but your prohibitionist keep-the-evil-hidden approach is a remarkable example of vulgar puritanism that has failed in so many ways. Ours is an open society which encourages open thinking and criticism. I was taught before I was 10 years old how to use a revolver and a small rifle, and had my first handgun and shotgun by 12. Many millions of people got the same kind of training and are the better for it.

[SteveW]

75. You are mistaken...

Since the late 1990s, the National Safety Council has noted a strong, steady decline in the number of childhood gun-related accidents, a decline that now puts the number of deaths below accidental drownings, electrocution, and falls. If you are going to show a relationship with the Eddie Eagle program and gun "security," you may wish to deal with the data first.

[Logical]

6. Many of us hate the NRA as much as you do. Including me. n-t

[Hoyt]

10. Any organization that impacts chance for swing on SC, needs a good boycott.

True Dem members should consider walking from the organization.

I hope NRA is making a big mistake working against O.

Hope guns aren't worth a Republican Prez and Congress.

[gejohnston]

16. What I want in a SC justice is

pro RKBA, pro union, and anti corporate personhood. Why does it have to be a false choice. Guns are the symptom and not the whole issue. The issue is "who is going to screw me in the abstract" and "who is going to screw me in the here and now". The problem is more about the anti rural/working class bigotry that comes out on from some on the left, that is how they go for Republicans. To someone who gets righteously indignant about ethnic slurs by freepers, and then uses the same language but different words towards people who were camo hats and drive pick up trucks, does not do our party good. The Republicans see it and play the "we are one of you" card.

[Hoyt]

20. Then vote for those who pander to your gun needs.

[eqfan592]

22. Ahhh, typical Hoyt.

Ignore the post entirely and just come back with more hyperbole.

[DonP]

55. "Hope guns aren't worth a Republican Prez and Congress." Excellent point!

So do we, that's why we'd prefer that you and your ilk just STFU about it, instead of trying to make it a major issue and play right into their hands by having Dems speak out for more gun control and be every bit as successful as they were in '94, the last time they made it an issue.

[SteveW]

78. "Guns aren't that imortant," they say. Then they drag it up AGAIN. nt

[SteveW]

77. "Hope guns aren't worth a Republic Prez..." Seems worthwhile to gun-controllers.

[rl6214]

28. I think you have the NRA mixed up with the NRA-ILA

[Logical]

38. I sure the he'll do not......

I am talking about the group who used Ted Nugent and Newt as speakers at their national meeti g and said Obama was going to go after Guns in his 2nd term. They are right wind idiots!

[madrchsod]

15. what? a right wing organization that pretty much hates obama?

a right wing organization that wants to elect only those who pass their purity tests?

as a former lifetime member of the nra and former gun owner.... fuck the nra and their cheerleaders.

[provis99]

23. the NRA regularly endorses Bernie Sanders.

I'd hardly call him right wing.

[Hoyt]

37. NRA gives Sanders an "F" rating. That hardly sounds like an endorsement, more like a target.

[gejohnston]

41. Last time I checked, Bernie had a C

[DonP]

50. Please don't annoy Hoyt with actual facts. He worked so hard to pull that story out of his ass

... and clean it off to post it. The fact that they actually donated over a half million to Dems in 2010 and were the single biggest single $ contributor to my Dem rep are irrelevant to the haters.

I'm gonna guess that he has never actually been to the NRA web site, any more than he's ever actually been to a gun show either.

If he has, he sure wasn't able to find any of the things he claims are there. Otherwise I'm sure at least some of that evil would be posted to prove his points.

He just seems to blurt out whatever he thinks will impress people at that moment.

[provis99]

64. He gets a C rating from the NRA.

They endorsed him over his opponent.

[SteveW]

79. Must be grade inflation. nt

[aikoaiko]

7. There is a reason why Pres. Obama has abandoned the gun control supporters

Fortunately, they still haven't figured it out yet.

[mikeb302000]

33. and what would that reason be?

pray tell.

[aikoaiko]

35. Constant pressure from civil liberty advocacy groups like the NRA & the fear of losing an election.

President Obama is minimizing the attacks from the NRA by not giving them anything to use against him while he has been in office.

edited to add: The NRA has the luxury of being a single issue group that is not charged with advocating for other civil liberties. It sometimes makes them look like a fringe group, but it really is their strength.

[madrchsod]

14. i gave up on the nra when they went on this bullshit fear mongering

no one is going to take away people`s right to own guns and they know it. just like the rest of the grifters on the right, they have to create an issue to raise money to make themselves important and rich.

[gejohnston]

19. Who doesn't fear monger?

Both sides do it, it is called scare the money out of people. Nothing new, and certainly not unique to the NRA or anyone else.

Make them angry and stir up hostilities. The shriller you are, the easier it is to raise funds. That's the nature of the beast."- - Terry Dolan, co-founder and chairman of the National Conservative Political Action Committee

The NRA and Brady did not invent it, they just take it to new levels of absurdity

[aikoaiko]

36. Well, the NRA hypebole was in response to the anti-gun fear mongering bullshit.

Before 1968, the NRA was much less prone to exaggerations.

But make no mistake, there are plenty of real (not imagined) attempts to reduce access to arms of my choosing.

I don;t like the excessive fear tactics of the NRA either and that why I joined -- to vote for a better board of directors.

[PavePusher]

43. Apparently you haven't been paying attention.

There are numerous politicians who want to ban some or all guns, and even confiscate ones already in Civilian hands.

And there have been examples of confiscation here in the U.S.

So it's definitely not a manufactured issue.

[ileus]

53. I gave up on the NRA after one year of junk mail and phone calls.

[mikeb302000]

66. that's absolutely right

yet, the gun-rights activists continually talk about it. I think they like thinking of themselves as the oppressed victims.

[rl6214]

25. Blah, blah, blah, you and your uber-moran dipshit shtick

Your side of the gun debate is losing and will continue to lose with MORONS running the anti gun fight.

BRING IT ON UBER

[krispos42]

31. They don't have a lot to go on with Obama

Except for the fact that he's not white. Despite what he pushed for representing the citizens of Illinois, he's done virtually nothing in terms of federal gun control as President.


But, yanno, he's black. Doubtless the reichwing noise machine will flog this somehow... perhaps in the context of Obama arming those darn uppity blacks so they can take their reparations by armed force from the downtrodden, humble, unarmed white people.



:sarcasm:

[aikoaiko]

39. Was that all sarcasm?

[krispos42]

44. Just the second paragraph. So far.

I anticipate there's at least a 30% chance of it becoming reality by election day 2012

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spin]

42. If the economy doesn't improve by the 2012 election ...

gun issues will be relatively unimportant.

I had thought for sure that by now we would be seeing indications of an improving economy. Still, there is a long time to go before the election so there is hope. If we appear well on the road to recovery when the voters head to the polls, Obama should have no problems getting reelected.

What may save Obama if we are still are stuck in economic doldrums is that the Republicans appear unable to come up with a strong candidate. At this point Mitt Romney is the only one I can see with a chance and he lacks charisma.

Of course the Tea Party could force the Republicans to nominate someone like Michele Bachmann. She doesn't seem to be ready for prime time.

This has been a unusually long recession and if it continues up to the next Presidential election, I wonder if future historians will call it a depression.

According to economists, since 1854, the U.S. has encountered 32 cycles of expansions and contractions, with an average of 17 months of contraction and 38 months of expansion.<5> However, since 1980 there have been only eight periods of negative economic growth over one fiscal quarter or more,<37> and four periods considered recessions:

July 1981 – November 1982: 14 months
July 1990 – March 1991: 8 months
March 2001 – November 2001: 8 months
December 2007 – June 2009: 18 months<38><39>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession

[mikeb302000]

67. I agree

in the big picture gun issues are unimportant. But to folks interested in guns, they are very important.

[GreenStormCloud]

71. They are important as a wedge issue in close elections.

If an election is a blow-out then those folks for whom guns are the deciding factor will be submerged in the tsunami of voters. But if the vote is close then the guns voters can swing it.

Guns aren't cheap. Gun owners have signifigant money tied up in their guns. They have learned that there are politicians who will attempt to outlaw and confiscate the guns that they have. So they are more strongly motivated to protect their personal investment in the guns by voting for pro-gun candidates. If you don't believe me, consider that over 50% of the U.S. House and almost half of the U.S. Senate have an NRA "A" rating. That didn't happen by accident.

Further, many of us want to carry our guns on us for our own personal protection. And we want laws that protect us if we have to defend ourselves against attack. Look at the recent vote on Castle Doctrine in Pennsylvania. Many Democrats voted for that bill. They did so because in the primaries they defeated anti-gun candidates and were in the legislature to vote their pro-gun convictions.

Would there have been the tremendous sweep in the last 24 years of states becoming shall-issue CCW if guns were unimportant to voters?

[SteveW]

73. Well,J, the biggest NRA allies are folks like you. Any questions? That is all.