Today in history:

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

1776; The State Constitution of Virginia is adopted and Patrick Henry made governor.
I quote Article 13 - "That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state, therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power." (principle authors: George Mason, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison)

Notice the wording, "composed of the body of the people" NOT "composed of A body of the people" but THE BODY as in all people.

Three months later Pennsylvania ratified its State Constitution.
I quote Article XIII. "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power."

In 1833 Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story: "The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."

There is little doubt of what the Founders intended.

George Washington: "A free people ought to be armed."

Is there some hidden record of the Founders saying anything thing that justifies banning weapons?

[Kolesar]

1. 290 words leading to a blind quote phrased as a question.

Do you want to try this one again?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

6. Washington - Jan 14 1790, Boston Independent Chronicle

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence. . . From the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to ensure peace, sucurity, and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. . . The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference; they deserve a place of honor with all that's good. . . A free people ought to be armed."
(George Washington speech, Jan. 7, 1790, printed in the "Boston Independent Chronicle", Jan. 14, 1790.)

[Kolesar]

8. So?

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence. . . From the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to ensure peace, sucurity, and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. . . The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference; they deserve a place of honor with all that's good. . . A free people ought to be armed."
(George Washington speech, Jan. 7, 1790, printed in the "Boston Independent Chronicle", Jan. 14, 1790.)

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

44. re: So?

I took my time in carefully considering and replying to your question.

My OP outlines the intent of the Founders in recognizing the individual RKBA. Reconcile yourself to that. It is still, today, the law of the law and, more important, it is correct and congruent with human rights.

[robcon]

2. There are those who would twist the 2nd amendment to see banning of guns for all but the militia.

If they WANT to ban guns, they will find some interpretation somewhere to support that idea, IMO.

[Kolesar]

3. Another blind quote...eom

[robcon]

4. Nothing to add, Kolesar?

'Blind' poster, IMO.

[Kolesar]

5. That post does not make any sense, either

Mr. blogger

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

13. Thanks.

Your use of the adjective "blind" reminded me a most appropriate quote to accompany those in the OP.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know. The proverb has been traced back in English to 1546 (John Heywood), and resembles the Biblical verse (Jeremiah 5:21.)"

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

14. They should interpret this quote from Dr Arthur Kellerman:

"If you've got to resist, you're chances of being hurt are less the more lethal your weapon. If that were my wife, would I want her to have a .38 Special in her hand? Yeah." (Health Magazine, March/April 1994)

;)

[gejohnston]

26. Dr Kellerman is an MD

Not a criminologist, not a law enforcement expert, not a self defense expert. He writes half baked studies funded by the Joyce Foundation. Since he is not a real authority on the subject, who cares?

[gejohnston]

29. my bad. The irony just hit me.

I read it closer, Kellerman is one of the Joyce funded shills. He wants his wife to have a gun but no one else. :dunce: :blush: :yoiks:

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

30. I love IRONY :) n/t

[jpak]

7. R U part of a well regulated militia?

:shrug:

[eqfan592]

9. If you are asking if...

...I am well equipped in the event I need to serve in a militia (which is what "well regulated" meant, in spite of your attempts at revisionist history) then I can say that I indeed am.

[jpak]

10. Well that's just stupid cuz we has us a Nat'l Guard, Army and Marines

yup

[eqfan592]

11. LOL, not only is it not stupid, it's actually federal law...

...that states I am officially a part of the militia.

Simply because you are too willfully ignorant to understand something doesn't make that something "stupid."


yup

[jpak]

16. So, do you march around with your gun and stuff

Do you have BADGES?

:shrug:

:evilgrin:

[eqfan592]

18. Nope. nt

[Glassunion]

28. .

Badges. We don't need no stinki.... you know.

[one-eyed fat man]

15. So sayeth the draft dodger....

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

17. No.

George Mason: "I ask you sir, who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people." http://www.madisonbrigade.com/g_mason.htm

Tenche Coxe: "Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

[Glassunion]

27. So...

Are you saying that the militia statement in the 2nd Amendment that was proposed in the 1780's is referring to something that did not come into existence until 1903?

Man I had no idea the Founding Fathers were all psychic and shit? Or did they have some sort of big ass magic 8-ball?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

35. what is stupid is the idiom you have chosen to affect.

yup.

[hack89]

43. Not familiar with the Federal Code, I see. nt

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

12. Read the quotes.

I know it's asking a lot.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

32. as a matter of fact.

:patriot:

[ileus]

19. Didn't they know killer clips, and pistol grips kill people?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

20. Professor Joyce Lee Malcolm:

"The Second Amendment was meant to accomplish two distinct goals...First, it was meant to guarantee the individual's right to have arms for self-defense and self-preservation. These privately owned arms were meant to serve a larger purpose as well...and it is the coupling of these two objectives that has caused the most confusion. The customary American militia necessitated an armed public...the militia (being)...the body of the people. The argument that today's National Guardsmen, members of a select militia, would constitute the only persons entitled to keep and bear arms has no historical foundation." http://www.joyceleemalcolm.com/about

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

21. Dalai Lama:

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." (May 15, 2001 Seattle Times) http://www.dalailama.com/biography/a-brief-biography

[Hoyt]

22. If Britain controls/attacks us again -- as was occurring at the time -- we can break out the guns.

Until then, leave them at home.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

23. non sequitur n/t

[eqfan592]

24. lol, you must have missed the whole "personal defense" portion.

But hey, ignoring things you don't like to consider is pretty much par for the course for you.

[one-eyed fat man]

25. Self-defense is for Neanderthals

He said so, plainly enough

"To the Neanderthal man, maybe. In the 21st Century, not so much."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=431497&mesg_id=431706




You are supposed to just give them what they want and hope they won't hurt you. He even claims to want to buy the shirt.

"Actually, I'd love a T-Shirt like that. Very cool!!!!!!!"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=422331&mesg_id=422557

Maybe he just doesn't have a life worth defending and assumes no one else does either?

[beevul]

36. Wow, he really did. N/T

[Tuesday Afternoon]

31. only Britain . . .?

sheesh.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

33. Anti-rights and anti-Brit maybe? n/t

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

34. Sen. Hubert Humphrey:

"Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of citizens to keep and bear arms. This is not to say that firearms should not be very carefully used, and that definite safety rules of precaution should not be taught and enforced. But the right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, and one more safeguard against a tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible." (Sen. Hubert Humphrey, _Know_Your_Lawmakers; Guns Magazine, Feb. 1960.)

[DWC]

37. Excellent post. we need more like it. n/t

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

38. Any guesses?

"Ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State."

[oneshooter]

39. Lenin or Stalin. n/t

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

40. Heinrich Himmler n/t

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

41. Who said this?

"The sale of guns must stop. Halfway measures are not enough."

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

42. Here's a bit of a surprise:

"As a card-carrying member of the liberal media, producing this piece was an eye opening experience. I have to admit that I saw guns as inherently evil, violence begets violence, and so on. I have learned, however, that in trained hands, just the presence of a gun can be a real "man stopper." I am sorry that women have had to resort to this, but wishing it wasn't so won't make it any safer out there."....


...Jill Fieldstein, CBS producer, Street Stories: Women and Guns, 29 April 1993