Thief Returns to Crime Scene to Retrieve Lost Shoe, Gets His Ass Shot by Home-owner

[LAGC]

DETROIT (WJBK) - "It just got to a point were we just had to take action for ourselves. It was just happening too frequently," said Hector Martinez.

There have been too many break-ins way too often at a home on Horatio in southwest Detroit.

"We had break-ins at least three times in the last two months," Martinez said.

Their pit bull was even stolen, but this time, two men allegedly broke into their Chevy Blazer and busted out a rear window about 2:30 Tuesday morning.
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"We never tried to hurt anybody. We just tried to scare them off," said Martinez. "We just fired off warning shots, and it wasn't up until when the cops came that they told us that one of them was dead and the other one was injured."

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/local/robbery-suspect-returns-for-shoe,-fatally-shot-by-homeowner-20110628-mr

Of course, I'm not condoning using lethal force over mere property crimes -- guns should only be used in self-defense if one's life is in danger -- but I kind of have a hard time feeling much sympathy toward the criminals who got shot... "occupational hazard" and all that.

[pipoman]

1. My only problem with this is

firing warning shots that actually strike people. To me warning shots would be in a unaimed shooting in a safe direction, if they struck both of these people, were others, neighbors, etc. in danger of being struck by his "warning shots"?

[Hangingon]

2. "To me warning shots would be in a unaimed shooting in a safe direction"

What does that mean? I don't believe in warning shots. Does "unaimed" mean just firing? This is completely agaimst my training.

[pipoman]

4. Of coarse, I am thinking of my own situation,

that is, living in an area with no other homes within 3/4 mile. I could safely shoot into the ground or even into the air with virtually no chance of damage to property or others.

[petronius]

15. The article is a bit unclear, but it mentions warning shots when the robbers fled the first

time, but when they came back it just says "started shooting again.". If he hit both guys, I've got to assume that the second round of shots were aimed, or else this guy is a horrifically bad shot (or spectacularly unclear on the concept of 'warning shot').

I agree with you, though - if you want someone to know you're armed you can yell, aim, whatever. But don't fire unless you reasonably believe there's a threat, and then shoot to hit...

[MineralMan]

3. If you must fire a warning shot, aim at dirt near you. If there isn't

any, don't fire.

[ileus]

5. all of lifes lessons are learned through pain....stupid's gotta hurt.

[Hoyt]

6. Warning shots? Another example of gun owners who aren't prepared to handle even a simple situation.

If they robber was armed and threatening, fire away. But shooting an unarmed man, probably in the back, is playing judge, jury and Jesus.

[eqfan592]

7. Ever try confirming if somebody in a dark room was or wasn't armed?

Not just any dark room, but a room in your home? And not just any person, but somebody who doesn't belong there?

Honestly, you are a fine one to talk about OTHERS playing judge and jury. Your desire to jump to snap judgments of situations such as this seems unparallelled.

[Hoyt]

8. Apparently this incident was outside. As to someone in your your room, they've asked for it.

My view as far as someone in your home: If someone comes in the room where you or your family is, they've agreed to whatever they get, including a bullet or swing of a bat or machete. I would not shoot someone in a remote area of my house stealing my TV, guitar or whatever. That can be replaced. But, they better not come near my family.

None of that was the case in the incident posted. Sounds pretty close to murder to me and I ain't buying the warning shots BS. Shooting an unarmed man over a car breakin is wrong. Unfortunately, too many gun owners are just waiting for such an opportunity.

[eqfan592]

9. Waiting for an intruder to be in among your family...

...before taking action may be exposing your family to unnecessary danger IMHO. That's not to say that I would go hunting around the furthest reaches of my home, but I would place myself somewhere in the middle between my family and the criminal so as to reduce my families exposure as much as possible.

And the point I was making earlier was that it us almost impossible to tell if a person is armed or unarmed in the heat of the moment. They may not have a weapon in hand, but that does not equate to them not having a weapon somewhere on their person. In a situation where you come across a person in the act of committing a crime, it is far better for your own personal safety to assume the worst and act accordingly.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

10. Once someone is in my house...

...any move that I see that isn't him/her unmistakably trying to leave my house will result in lethal force.
If s/he is armed and doesn't kill me first, they won't be reporting their side, ever.

[Hoyt]

13. Ain't you something. Hope it doesn't turn out to be a neighbor's unarmed kid.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

20. This bears a serious response.

NOT ... :puke:

[Hoyt]

14. Yea, I know the "shoot first and let God sort it out" so common among those who carry guns.

[TheWraith]

16. You mean the view you yourself just endorsed? Hypocrisy much?

"My view as far as someone in your home: If someone comes in the room where you or your family is, they've agreed to whatever they get, including a bullet or swing of a bat or machete."

[Hoyt]

17. If they walk into my/family's bedroom -- they can take anything they want from garage, etc.

Ain't worth killing someone over if not necessary. If you can't even read a few written sentences, you dang sure can't assess a volatile situation. You should not pack.

[eqfan592]

23. Then I guess that would rule you out for "packing"

Since you don't even seem to comprehend what you yourself are saying.

[RSillsbee]

11. Mark your calenders DU'rs I actually agree w/ Hoyt NT

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

12. "While everything...

...is generally relative, some things are especially relative." - A. Einstein :)

[Hoyt]

18. I must have misspoke/typed.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

21. Possibly true...

...it's possible to get it right sometimes, just by accident.

[RSillsbee]

26. If you put 600 monkeys and Hoyt

in front of 601 keyboards sooner or late one of them would type something pro RKBA. I just didn't think it would be Hoyt

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

28. What if they were blindfolded? n/t

[RSillsbee]

29. The odds still favor the monkeys NT

[Hoyt]

33. Monkeys are fool enough to carry a gun or two in public.

[RSillsbee]

25. No, actually you didn't

If you have time for warning shots you aren't in a life or death situation. If they're in your home let 'em have it I agree 100%. Shooting someone in the back over property is murder.

I agree on all three points

[Hoyt]

34. Once in awhile, gunners say something sensible. Kudos

[RSillsbee]

38. Once in awhile, Hoyt says something sensible. Kudos

Never seems to say it on Huffing and puffington post though

[cleanhippie]

40. Incorrect. For ONCE, hoyt says something sensible.

There is no "once in a while". This is a first.

[spin]

19. You walk into your living room and confront a burglar ...

you draw down on him and tell him to freeze.

He turns his back to you, you can't see what he is doing.

He may be drawing his own firearm, and if he does and suddenly spins around he can shoot faster than you can react.

Here's an interesting excerpt from an interview with the former NRA President, Marion Hammer, on Florida's “Castle Doctrine” law:

GIACHINO: One thing that is a little bit confusing – well, actually a lot of things are confusing about this law, particularly because of the misinformation that is being given by the Brady group, but one thing that confused me, and I read the law several times myself and would consider myself qualified to read it and understand it with my legal background, but nonetheless someone who is retreating, a perpetrator who is retreating, what happens then? If they had entered the person’s home unlawfully and the person felt that their life or someone in their family’s life was in danger, even if at some point the perpetrator turns to retreat, if deadly force is used against them would this law still apply?

HAMMER: The law is designed to allow you to use deadly force against an individual who breaks into your home. If someone turns around, you have no way of knowing whether or not they are retreating or whether or not they are going for a gun or something else. So yes, if someone breaks into your home they are at your mercy. Once they get outside your home – if they turn around and run and get outside your home, then you cannot take action against them.
http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/freedomline/current/in_our_opinion/marion-hammer-nra-interview.htm

Florida's gun laws are very reasonable.

[RSillsbee]

27. If I walk into my living room and confront a burglar

I'm not going to say "freeze" I'm going to shoot

[oneshooter]

22. So what would a graduate from the " Hoyt School of Civilized Self Defense " do? n/t

[one-eyed fat man]

24. He'd get a new T-shirt at graduation.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

30. I like this one better.

[Hoyt]

36. If you ever go out without a gun, do you feel like you are wearing that shirt "Please don't hurt me"

If you think you are going to be hurt when unarmed, I'd seek some help.

[one-eyed fat man]

39. Still waiting...

Actually, I'd love a T-Shirt like that. Very cool!!!!!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=422331&mesg_id=422557

You'd look good in that shirt on the East side of Cleveland. Oh, say about 105th and Euclid, at 2AM on a Saturday morning. Might even rate a good aerobic workout.

[Hoyt]

35. Doesn't sound like this was a life-threatening situation. And "warning" shots don't usually hit.

But some folks have a hard time passing up an opportunity to shoot someone.

[bluedigger]

31. If a thief comes back after I run him off...

he should expect the worse, because I will assume it. He already had his warning.

[jpak]

32. Vigilantes are cool - everybody get a gun!!11 Shoot first, ask questions later!!!1111

What horseshit

yup

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

37. Like...

...most of your posts.

[ileus]

41. The homeowner already knows who has access to the home...

No need to ask any questions to defend your family...

[The Green Manalishi]

42. Dead burglar= good burglar

Warning shots should be fired in groups of three, two in the chest and one in the head.