Concealed Carry Law "Restores Dose of Constitutionalism" (Wisconsin)

[shadowrider]

The culmination of years of hard work and grassroots advocacy has come to fruition with the passage of Senate Bill 93 in the Wisconsin State Legislature. As other priorities were fulfilled in recent weeks with the approval of a fiscally responsible 2011-13 state budget, it became increasingly clear that the time to finally pass a concealed carry bill into law was at hand.

Despite the long and rich tradition that firearms have played in the history of our state, Wisconsin was one of only two states in the entire nation without some form of concealed carry legislation. Notwithstanding the efforts of previous legislatures, and despite the bill arriving twice to the desk of former Gov. Jim Doyle, Wisconsinites were not permitted to exercise a right fundamental to their personal safety and protection. Moreover, government stood in the way of honest citizens hoping to partake in an individual freedom outlined specifically in the U.S. Constitution by the Second Amendment.

--snip--

Specifically, this bill contains a streamlined licensing process and requires criminal background checks and firearms safety training (with certain exemptions) for those who wish to carry concealed weapons in Wisconsin.

http://menomoneefalls.patch.com/articles/concealed-carry-law-restores-dose-of-constitutionalism

[wellst0nev0ter]

1. Republican Op-Eds, Huh?

I guess handguns aren't the only ones being concealed around here :eyes:

[shadowrider]

4. So an expansion of gun rights is right-wing?

That's going to be a surprise to a great number of 2A supporting Dems on this forum, including me.

Are you suggesting Dems are supposed to be anti-gun, anti-carry?

[wellst0nev0ter]

12. Then Try Getting An Op-Ed By By Someone Who ISN'T A Walkerite

Shouldn't be that hard, is it? It's not that I'm totally against gun rights, but it's antics like these that make me question the motives of the advocates.

[shadowrider]

14. I put the same challenge to you I've put to others

Find me a PRO-2A, left leaning site to quote from, and believe me I've looked, and I'll use it.

Shouldn't be that hard, is it? Oh, wait. Yes it is.

[eqfan592]

16. Sadly, you are correct.

This is a civil liberty issue that our side is too often on the wrong side of.

[wellst0nev0ter]

18. The NRA Has Endorsed 58 House Democrats Alone Last Year

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/06/AR2010100603363.html

Just because you are too lazy to look up the information yourself, or if you don't travel in those circles to begin with, doesn't mean you should go running to repukes.

[shadowrider]

19. I'm well aware of that information. Let me repeat the challenge

find me a LEFT LEANING, PRO-2A WEBSITE I can use to POST PRO-2A articles and I'll use it.

Finding info on who was endorsed is NOT what I'm looking for in terms of PRO-2A ARTICLES.

[wellst0nev0ter]

20. And I'll Repeat

There are plenty of elected NRA Democrats you can choose from if you do the homework.

You don't need to go to some right-wing site cherry-picking some repuke to "support" your argument.

[shadowrider]

21. Sure, direct me to recent pro-2A articles they've written.

I'll wait.

[gejohnston]

24. it works both ways

Because the left leaning sites like Think Progress do not recognize that the NRA Dems exist and more often than not are either incompetent or dishonest when reporting on this issue.

[Doctor_J]

37. So you're admitting that this sort of gun lunacy if confined to the ultra-right

bravo. Most of the gun culture denies this obvious fact.

[friendly_iconoclast]

41. Save for the Second Amendment Dems, the Liberal Gun Club, the Pink Pistols,

and about 24% of all Democrats, you are totally correct!


Love your stuff. Don't ever change...

[Doctor_J]

43. But one of the replies to this OP says that there are no liberal pro-2A

postings anywhere. Which is it?

[friendly_iconoclast]

46. Looks like you *both* have deficient google-fu. A few minutes' search found these:

I devoutly hope this gives Republicans and their prohibitionist enablers indigestion:



http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/


The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a voice for gun-owning liberals and moderates in the national conversation on gun rights, gun legislation, firearms safety, and shooting sports.

We serve as a national forum for all people, irrespective of their personal political beliefs, to discuss firearms ownership, firearms use, and the enjoyment of firearms-related activities free from the destructive elements of political extremism that dominate this subject on the national scale.

We also actively develop and foster a variety of programs for the purpose of firearms training and firearms safety education, for both gun owners and non-gun owners.


http://www.pinkpistols.org/index2.html

We did. There are now over 45 Pink Pistols chapters nationwide, and more are starting up every day. We are dedicated to the legal, safe, and responsible use of firearms for self-defense of the sexual-minority community. We no longer believe it is the right of those who hate and fear gay, lesbian, bi, trans, or polyamorous persons to use us as targets for their rage. Self-defense is our RIGHT.

The Pink Pistols get together at least once a month at local firing ranges to practice shooting, and to acquaint people new to firearms with them. We will help you select a firearm, acquire a permit, and receive proper training in its safe and legal use for self-defense. The more people know that members of our community may be armed, the less likely they will be to single us out for attack. Join us today. It is your RIGHT.



http://www.liberalswithguns.com/

http://bluesteeldemocrats.blogspot.com/

Blog Site of the Gun Owners Caucus of the Democratic Party of Oregon. A forum for Oregon Democrats to discuss their right to bear arms and their responsibilities as gun owners under the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution. Join today: http://www.dpo.org/communities/gun-owners/join-gun-owners-caucus

http://www.blackmanwithagun.com/

http://www.dpo.org/communities/gun-owners


Communities.....Gun Owners
Democrats don't want your guns--we've already got our own.

Who we are
Support for civil rights and economic justice is the bedrock of the Democratic Party. The Gun Owners Caucus (GOC-DPO) believes that gun ownership is the critical civil right which preserves the rest of our American freedoms. We enjoy the benefits of living in a free and armed society and work to live up to the responsibilities that requires.

In 2005, the DPO passed a resolution (RES 2005-008) stating that "the right to keep and bear arms an individual right not granted by the government, but rather guaranteed by the government." That means the right is inalienable. The GOC-DPO aims to expand the promise of the Democratic Party of Oregon by widening the party's base by advertising, promoting, and defending its pro-Second Amendment platform and policies, and reaching out to all liberals who support the Constitution and its clear language.

What we do
Through our efforts, statements, members, and activities the Gun Owners Caucus:

■Supports elected Democrats and Democratic nominees for office; volunteers on behalf of Democratic candidates
■Publicizes the Democratic Party's long-standing support of all Constitutional guarantees, including the Second Amendment
■Represents the political interests and views of gun-owning Democrats in the State of Oregon
■Protects Gun Owners' rights by promoting a pro-Second Amendment legislative agenda
■Acts as a forum to educate elected officials and the general public on matters affecting gun owners in Oregon
■Persuades and helps party leaders to accurately reflect the pro-Second Amendment attitudes of the Oregon Democrats they represent
■Provides opportunities for supporters of gun owners' rights to seek political appointments or elected office
■Creates a Democratic voice for the promotion of firearms education and responsibility, hunter safety, and enforcement of existing gun laws within the state
■Helps strengthen the DPO's grassroots appeal by reaching out to Democrats or would-be Democrats with strong pro-Second Amendment philosophies



http://www.nodc.us/

Nevada Outdoor Democratic Caucus

An affiliate of the Nevada State Democratic Party


http://www.nodc.us/facts.htm

:: Nevada Fact:
Nevada has 30,000 members of the National Rifle Association, and 10,000 of those Nevada NRA members are Democrats.


http://www.nodc.us/gunsafety.htm

The NODC strongly believes that firearms in the home must be kept secure from unauthorized access.
If you do not or cannot keep your firearms secure from unsupervised children, or other persons who should not have access, the NODC urges you to not to have firearms in your home.
This statement and position are in agreement with the National Shooting Sports Foundation and Project ChildSafe.
The NODC endorses Project ChildSafe. This program is active now in most Nevada communities and is accessed through the local law enforcement agency.

Project ChildSafe partners with governors, lieutenant governors, U.S. Attorneys, community leaders and law enforcement to distribute free safety kits to gun owners in all states in order to promote safe storage of firearms in the home.

[spin]

29. I would love to link to OP-Eds that were liberal and supported concealed carry ...

but unfortunately they are very hard if not impossible to find.

Instead the liberal media sites often are unfairly biased against gun ownership and the right to carry. Much of the information about the gun control issue that they print is false and misleading and I'm not talking about minor distortions which might be understandable.

The bad part is that when I do find a site that has accurate information about firearms and gun owners including those who legally carry concealed, there are often advertisements or other stories on the page that are unacceptable and falsely paint Obama and other Democrats as socialists and gun grabbers.

I often have to look at five or six sites before I can find one that I can use on DU.

Both the liberal and the conservative media print falsehoods and push political agendas. It's discouraging and disgusting and does little to promote problem solving in our nation.

We need at least one media source that is "Fair and Balanced" and that sure as hell is not Fox News.

[wellst0nev0ter]

30. Try Listening To Mike Malloy On The Radio

He's not hard to find. He's as liberal he somewhere to the right of Castro, but he openly supports concealed carry and has a gun on him.

Still, doesn't the fact that the information about guns almost always leads you to certain sites? Doesn't that give you pause?

It does with me since Mike Malloy supports concealed carry because of all the death threats he gets from right wingers.

[gejohnston]

31. I did not know that about Mike

It is not something I ever heard him mention.
What gives me pause is when progressive sites like Think Progress act like Fox and C&l acts like free republic. Like the Al Qaida "you can buy a machine gun without a background check" canard. They copied and pasted each other with the same wording without even so much as doing simple fact checking. Or the "guns in bars in Ohio" same disinformation, same wording at Think Progress and Alternet. Same lack of journalistic standards. Then there is Rachel Maddow and Thom Hartmann being for Bush's bogus watch list after being against it.

Quite frankly, it makes me question the left and the right.

[spin]

35. I question both the right and the left on almost all issues ...

the problem is that on many issues I lack the knowledge and the time to do the research to determine the truth.

I do understand firearms and firearm issues and I see the liberal media publish far more falsehoods on this issue than the conservative media. I attribute this to the fact that gun owners are often conservative and are therefore very knowledgeable about firearms and the issues. On the more liberal sites, the publishers feel that the majority of liberals oppose firearms and have little knowledge of them. Therefore it is easy to exaggerate or even to lie in order to push an agenda.

That doesn't mean that all the conservative sites are honest always about the gun issue. Often they publish propaganda that leads their readers to fear that Obama and his administration is planning gun confiscations or bans.

What worries me is that if the media is so willing to blatantly distort the facts about a simple subject like firearms and gun control, can I trust them on far more complicated stories such as the economy or the medical system? Why should I have to devote hours and hours of research and buy numerous books on such subjects in order to determine who is lying and who is more honest? Why should I have to go back to college and get a degree in economics or become a physician in order to know the simple facts involved in the issues?

On the subject of our medical care system, I believe that the liberal press is far more honest than the conservative press. Still had the liberal press presented the facts better, we might well have created a far better system than the compromise that the Democrats came up with. Before Obama took office we had the most expensive healthcare system in the world and yet we didn't cover all of our citizens. The new healthcare system will probably be even more expensive and quite possibly even less effective. Many nations have medical care programs which deliver more bang for the buck than ours and we could have modeled our system on the most successful of those.

In order for our nation to work as the founders hoped, we need to have a free press that presents the facts and the truth about the issues and then debates the solutions to the problems we face. Then we as educated citizens, can vote and choose candidates that support our conclusions.

It's no wonder that the press has low accuracy ratings with the public.

Press Accuracy Rating Hits Two Decade Low
Public Evaluations of the News Media: 1985-2009
Released: September 13, 2009



The public’s assessment of the accuracy of news stories is now at its lowest level in more than two decades of Pew Research surveys, and Americans’ views of media bias and independence now match previous lows.

Just 29% of Americans say that news organizations generally get the facts straight, while 63% say that news stories are often inaccurate. In the initial survey in this series about the news media’s performance in 1985, 55% said news stories were accurate while 34% said they were inaccurate. That percentage had fallen sharply by the late 1990s and has remained low over the last decade.

Republicans continue to be highly critical of the news media in nearly all respects. However, much of the growth in negative attitudes toward the news media over the last two years is driven by increasingly unfavorable evaluations by Democrats. On several measures, Democratic criticism of the news media has grown by double-digits since 2007. Today, most Democrats (59%) say that the reports of news organizations are often inaccurate; just 43% said this two years ago. Democrats are also now more likely than they were in 2007 to identify favoritism in the media: Two-thirds (67%) say the press tends to favor one side rather than to treat all sides fairly, up from 54%. And while just a third of Democrats (33%) say news organizations are “too critical of America,” that reflects a 10-point increase since 2007.


http://people-press.org/2009/09/13/press-accuracy-rating-hits-two-decade-low/

[jpak]

38. We luvs us some GOP in the Gungeon

yup

[eqfan592]

40. I have no love for the GOP.

But when they get it right, they get it right. And let us not forget that there were actually a fair number of Dems that voted for this legislation. It was the idiocy of Gov. Doyle that allowed this to be an issue during this past election cycle in the first place.

[jpak]

44. Sorry - they don't get it right

nope

yup

[eqfan592]

49. lol, so says you.

I would disagree in this particular instance.


yup indeed.

[AzWorker]

48. More freedom for 'the People' is a great thing.....

..... I don't care who signs the law restoring it.

[TheCowsCameHome]

2. Another fucking Wisconsin republican gets a boost here at DU.

Just what we need.

[safeinOhio]

3. Welcome to the gun forum

where repub governors are heros along with other crazy right wing nuts. They'll even defend crazies like Ted Nugent and Grover Norquest, NRA board members.

[eqfan592]

9. Hyperbole much? Nt

[slackmaster]

17. Auto-Ignore for long track record of showing no interest in a serious discussion

:hi:

[gejohnston]

27. and where faux liberals support things like

police harassing people for non crimes
classical conservative concepts like duty to flee and only the "chosen people" should defend themselves
support Bill Bennett's worst idea
prior restraint
using bigoted and dogmatic language instead of rational discussion
fact free arguments that would make Bill O'Reily blush

[DWC]

34. Alinsky's rule #5 just does not work on DU. Try Logic / Facts n/t

[shadowrider]

6. This has to do with gun policy, which is allowed here.

I put up articles that deal with gun policy or an expansion of gun rights regardless whether the person has a D or R after their name.

[TheCowsCameHome]

7. Yes, we've noticed.

I wonder what his position is on unions and other issues facing working class folks in Wisconsin.

He probably has his nose right up Walker's ass.

[eqfan592]

8. "This person doesn't agree with me on many issues...

...therefore nothing they ever say can be good." That's your logic in a nutshell.

[wellst0nev0ter]

11. Yeah, Except His Spiel Isn't Particularly "Good"

AND he's a repuke, so you guys lose on both points.

[eqfan592]

13. That's your opinion, and you are welcome to it.

I don't have an issue with somebody disagreeing with the content of a message. I have a problem with this idea that "we" are always right and "they" are always wrong.

[gejohnston]

28. So are the Bradys and Paul Helmke, so what's your point?

[gejohnston]

32. So are the Bradys, Paul Helmke and Josh Sugarmann

so that means you should be on our side. Jim Brady has the same view before he was shot. Carol McCarthy takes DINO to a new level by representing her district as a Dem while still being a registered Republican until a few years ago (she ran as a Dem only after losing a GOP primary.) She also supported the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act which deregulated Wall Street and let to the melt down. While she does support some of the same things I do, pro choice and anti age discrimination etc. Gun control and Wall Street deregulation are not items that I find common ground with her.

So, you lose even more.

[PavePusher]

25. A topic that you can bring up in the appropriate forum.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch....

[jaxx]

5. Passed by republicans in charge.

They've done so much good for Wisconsin since they got power. :sarcasm:

[eqfan592]

10. You can blame Gov. Doyle for that. Nt

[DonP]

22. I guess all the Dems that voted for it don't count?

It was passed by a bi-partisan majority with 6 or 7 Dems voting for it and only 8 against. The same way it passed the last two times before idiot Doyle vetoed it and then played funny with the votes for the override.

In fact the Senate Minority leader (D) said he's applying for his permit as soon as it goes into effect.

[shadowrider]

23. Pssst. Never interrupt someone on a rant with facts. It might upset their applecart n/t

[DonP]

26. Now it gets interesting in Illinois

Jaxx has assured us several times that concealed carry will NEVER come to Illinois, where we both live.

Now with Wisconsin secured, the entire 2nd amendment movement is focusing on securing 6 more votes in the legislature next session to over ride a Quinn veto and assure that home rule laws don't apply in Cook County or Chicago.

Against that growing pressure you still have a handful of Chicago meat puppets for the Daley machine and a bankrupt and failed Brady affiliated group that offers a new spokesperson ever few months.

Even a few of the former Daley people are now starting to bargain for what level of restriction they can settle for and how much training they can demand.

FWIW "Shall Issue" is the only option under discussion.

[ileus]

15. The little people finally win a civil right back from their oppressors.

[benEzra]

33. Wisconsin finally joined all the other blue states except Illinois.

Good for them.

[Doctor_J]

36. Along with all of the other good legislation coming from WI

Very similar to those who point the the Roberts SCOTUS's rulings as evidence that unlimited gun rights are a good thing. This should make it clear that complete lack of gun laws is the hallmark of an extreme right-wing reactionary government. It's pretty disturbing that such a one-sided, hyper-partisan op-ed is posted on democratic underground.

[friendly_iconoclast]

39. Vermont has even fewer gun laws than WI. How "extreme right-wing reactionary" are they?

Love the schtick, btw. You should ditch the Johnny Bravo avatar, it's a dead giveaway...

[Doctor_J]

42. The fact that all of the sources for this sort of propaganda are

the Moonie Times, Murdoch Journal, and other paid right-wing operatives should also be a dead giveaway.

I don't really begrudge the gun culture their pet amendment while many of them don't really think that much of the others. Whatever. But you should at least admit that your backers are to a large extent one-sided rags and paid propagandists. When you cite and article in the Moonie Times, you are also promoting their frequent assertions that the president is a Muslim from Kenya. If you belong to/support the NRA, you get all of their positions along with their 2nd amendment absolutism. And posting an op-ed from a Walker sycophant puts the poster on board with every one of Walker's fascist initiatives.

[friendly_iconoclast]

47. Both the genetic *and* the associational fallacies!

It's for the best if you never find out who created the Environmental Protection Agency.

Or how the most effective treatment for hypothermia was discovered...

[PavePusher]

51. I can see it now...

[X_Digger]

45. My, that's a very nice straw man you have there..

Did you pack his ass with straw yourself?

[gejohnston]

50. You are joking right?

Don't know much about history, and you have at best an oversimplified view of the world. The southern states used to have stricter gun laws than the rest of the US or Europe until the Jim Crow laws fell. North Carolina handgun law was right wing/Jim Crow inspired. South Carolina's handgun ban from 1902-1965 was right wing/Jim Crow inspired. Florida's ban on open carry in 1893 was right wing/Jim Crow inspired. The ones in the mid west and west were right wing/anti labor inspired. Hawaii and New York was also right wing/racist inspired.

This should make it clear that complete lack of gun laws is the hallmark of an extreme right-wing reactionary government.

Vermont has already been pointed out. Wyoming has stricter gun laws than Vermont.
Speaking of Wyoming, while it is more conservative, it is hardly reactionary or right wing. While it added open carry in the their Constitution, there was a conflict with Congress over the conditions of statehood. Congress wanted Wyoming to take the vote from women and remove all woman judges from the bench (which had been accepted in the territory since 1860). The territory told congress to screw off and congress gave in. By the way, Wyoming and Texas elected the first women governors on the same day in 1924. Wyoming held their inauguration three weeks earlier, so Nellie Ross (D) became the first woman governor.