Norway shooter: Ammo clips were from U.S. (illegal in Norway)

[Ruby the Liberal]

The Norwegian man who allegedly killed dozens at a kids summer camp claims he legally bought high-capacity ammunition clips by mail from the United States, prompting Capitol Hill’s leading gun-control advocate to say on Thursday that America should be ashamed such purchases aren’t against the law.

Anders Behring Breivik wrote in a 1,500-page manifesto that he bought 10 30-round ammunition clips for his .223 caliber rifle from an undisclosed, small U.S. supplier, which had acquired the clips from other suppliers. Norway forbids the sale of clips for hunting rifles that hold more than three bullets, according to Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/60154.html

[villager]

1. why, mass killers everywhere are indebted to us!

:thumbsup:

[Blown330]

2. Late to the game Ruby.

This was posted hours ago.

[Endangered Specie]

3. So I guess I should point out this purchase was illegal

and that sounds more like a problem of Norwegian customs or whomever sold these overseas.

Besides, I thought most gun parts stores (online at least) only sell to US customers.

[Blown330]

5. Not true.

There are plenty of accessories, including magazines, that can be sold outside of the US with no special exemptions.

[gejohnston]

13. Some Canadian suppliers will sell to the US

I just got a spare magazine for my Mauser Hsc from Canada, could not find one in the US.

[ileus]

4. Wonder if they were factory ruger mags, or after markets...

[Hoyt]

6. Guy kills 90 people, and you want to know what kind of mags he used? Christ.

[demosincebirth]

7. +100

[krispos42]

16. The OP is about what kind of mags he used.

Yell at the OPer.

[Hoyt]

21. Shoot, I'm "aiming" at all gunners here who have the same callous thought(s).

[krispos42]

25. We're not the ones plastering it all over the AP Wire n/t

[Euromutt]

38. I don't think Ruger's made 30-round magazines in a long time

Factory magazines come in 5 and 20-round capacities. These days, any 30-round mag for a Mini-14 is after-market.

[petronius]

8. I suspect that "three bullets" statement is a misunderstanding. Norwegian hunters

aren't allowed to hunt with more than 2 or 3 rounds (depending on target species) in the magazine, but that doesn't mean magazine capacity is limited to that size. We have similar laws here, for migratory birds at least...

[TheWraith]

9. Wrong. Hunting with a magazine that carries more than four rounds is illegal in most of the US.

It doesn't mean that the magazines themselves are. The standard capacity magazines are, as far as I have heard, not illegal in Norway. This is simply McCarthy gravedancing on a bunch of murdered children in order to push her agenda.

[Ruby the Liberal]

11. Apparently not in Tuscon

But that was people hunting, not animals, so there may be an exemption for "self defense"?

[friendly_iconoclast]

18. Would you feel better if he used 10-round magazines, like Seung-Hui Cho at Virginia Tech?

Or the original "postal" killer, back a couple of decades? Both of them used "McCarthy approved" magazines.

Yet strangely, their victims are just as dead as Breiviks'....

[RSillsbee]

23. The law applies strictly to hunting

self defense has nothing to do w/ it

[PavePusher]

26. Your vile conflation is noted.

I invite you to take it elsewhere.

[one-eyed fat man]

29. What is so hard to understand?

Hunting regulations are restrictions that apply to HUNTING and not to any other situation.

In many states the rifle caliber the lunatic used is too small to hunt deer.

In other states the magazine capacity was too great hunt deer.

The fact that Norway restricts magazine size for hunting has no bearing on whether or not those same magazines are illegal for other purposes.

To say that they are is mistaken, at best. Given the source, however, it is much more likely to be a deliberate misstatement of fact designed to deceive people, aka a deliberate and conniving LIE!

[Hoopla Phil]

33. Hunting game animals is much different that hunting non-game animals such as feral cats.

States have different regs on magazine size for game animals but no such regs on non game animals. Oh, in case you did not know it, the taking of human life without legal cause is against the law, just fyi.

[Blown330]

12. I think you mean 5 rounds.

...as that is the standard capacity of most bolt-action rifles (non-magnum) and the smallest available for rifles with detachable magazines.

[TheWraith]

14. It was my understanding most states were 4+1. Although it could be 5 rounds total.

No matter how you carry it.

[krispos42]

19. I'm pretty sure the limit is 6 rounds...

...including one in the chamber.


Many people hunt with revolvers, which typically hold 6 shots, so I think the blanket restriction is no more than 5 in the mag and one in the chamber. If you look at hunting rifles, particularly bolt-action rifles, they typically hold:

• 2 in the magazine if it's a short, fat magnum
  
• 3 in the magazine, if it's a conventional Magnum or a heavy-caliber regular cartridge
  
• 4 in magazine, if it's a regular medium-caliber cartridge
  
• 5 in magazine, if it's a .223 Rem or similar

You can find lots of five-round magazines for rifles that use detachable mags, too.




Of course, federal migratory waterfowl restriction is no more than 3 in the shotgun.

[TheWraith]

20. My understanding of it was 5 rounds for a rifle, and I was assuming 4 plus 1.

Although I could be wrong on that--I don't really hunt beyond varminting, for which there are no such rules.

[krispos42]

24. I think it usually it 4+1 in most rifles

Like the .308, .243, .25-06, and .30-06. That's probably as many as they can cram in there without having a protruding magazine. But my sporterized Mauser will hold 5+1 if I take the trouble. It's a former Spanish military arm.

Since the 1903 Springfields and the K98 Mausers were hugely popular as hunting guns when they were demilitarized, and their magazines hold 5 rounds, I bet that had influence as well on the big-game regulations.

Also, I remember that in South Dakota the limit for big game was 6 rounds regardless of type of gun (shotgun, handgun, rifle). Your long gun had to generate 1,000 ft-pounds of muzzle energy, and your handgun had to generate 500 foot-pounds.

For varmints, it was basically unrestricted.

[PavePusher]

27. It varies by state, and some laws applying to migratory birds are Federal and apply everywhere.

Look up your regional laws.

[Katya Mullethov]

34. In Texas one can link two or more belts together for feral hog

The only limiting factor is overheating the barrel .

[Blown330]

35. That's why the E4 variants...

...use new alloys for the barrels. 1500 rds non-stop, no problems.

[PavePusher]

40. And then you can cook the bacon on the barrel......

Mmmmmmmm.... bacon.....

[oneshooter]

42. The M1Garand carries 8 rounds in an en-block clip.

They are inserted into the magazine that is part of the weapon. When all eight rounds are fired there is a distinct "ping" heard when the empty clip is ejected from the magazine.

In Texas the M1 Garand is legal to hunt with when loaded with all eight round in the clip, which is inserted into the magazine.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Katya Mullethov]

10. I'm sensing a pattern here

[Hoopla Phil]

32. Same pattern used for a number of years.

Fortunately 2A propionate's are no longer shamed into silence. And with the advent of the internet we can get to the truth, and get it out on our own. Despite the disinformation like in the O.P.

[Travis_0004]

15. I refuse to listen to any journalist who doesn't know the difference between clip and magazine

Will somebody hire an editor to review these stories. Why don't journalist just call everything a magazine. Never use the word clip again. I realize that some guns do use clips, but if they always used the word magazine, they would at least be correct most of the time.

Also, I can't imagine magazines not being restricted under ITAR restrictions. Hell a lot of things such as grips for guns are restricted from export. If a US business broke those export laws, they will probably find themselves out of business very soon.

[Euromutt]

39. Any firearm that uses clips also has a magazine

The magazine is the part of the firearm that holds ammunition and feeds it into the action; it can be fixed (like the tubular magazine on a lever-action rifle, or on a pump-action or semi-automatic shotgun), or it can be detachable (like on most semi-auto handguns, and damn near every sub-machine gun and assault rifle).

If a firearm uses clips, they are used to feed ammunition into the magazine. The rounds can be stripped off into the magazine (like in an SKS), or inserted with and held in place by the clip (like in a Mosin-Nagant or a Garand, though the system is a bit different).

Clips can even be used to load detachable magazines, as seen here:


But you're right: whenever a news medium uses the word "clip" in relation to firearms, they invariably mean magazine, and they should just use that word instead.

[RSillsbee]

41. Don't they issue speed loaders any more?

When I was in (admittedly about the crack of the dawn of time)on came in every box of ammunition

[Remmah2]

17. I'm wondering how he got around US export restrictions?

I'm smelling fish.

[Blown330]

37. Because there aren't any.

What export restriction is there? The ITAR? Nope. Also, browsing a Norway based firearms site, I found 17-rd Glock magazines available. Reportedly the shooter purchased 30-rd Glock magazines locally so it seems it's not a question of legal possession but of availability.

[Straw Man]

22. Wrong.

This article is full of misinformation. See my post in the other thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=441993&mesg_id=442134

Hunting regulations are different from outright possession bans. Read the article carefully. He says he could have acquired them in Norway but they would have been more expensive.

Sloppy and Biased Journalist Attempts to Implicate US Gun Laws in Norwegian Tragedy: that should be the headline.

[PavePusher]

28. Disinformation....

you bought it, and apparently paid cash.

There are no refunds....

[Remmah2]

30. At no point has a supplier been named.

The story smells of fish. Then to top it, anti-gun people are taking the word of a crazy man. Rotten fish.

[Hoopla Phil]

31. NOT illegal in Norway! Just more expensive. Please stop spreading disinformation.

[iverglas]

36. Norway, Sweden, all the same thing

to you, I guess.

The article says they would have been more expensive to buy in SWEDEN.

Where have you found confirmation that possession is legal in NORWAY?

[gejohnston]

43. I take it we are talking about the rifle magazines right?

More expensive than us, and cheaper than Norway perhaps?

He bought the 30 round one for the Glock pistol in the same store. That is clue number one.
If possession is illegal in Norway, customs screwed up. Return address, customs declaration form saying "rifle magazine". I can picture a customs agent flagging it.

[gejohnston]

44. Who is to blame if

I bought a couple of spare magazines from a Canadian supplier. Does that mean if I run amok with it, it is Canada's fault? Is it Germany's fault because that was the country of origin?
The whole thing is absurd.

[Euromutt]

45. It's Carolyn McCarthy; that makes it practically absurd by definition

And before anyone complains about me ragging on an elected representative with a (D) after her name, let's bear in mind she was a staunch Republican until the local party chapter wouldn't support her candidacy. Pushing for gun control is the only thing she has in common with any Democrat, and even then by no means with all Democrats.