and now for something completely different

[iverglas]

I often wake up of a Saturday morning and flick on AMC to watch an episode of The Rifleman. When I was a kid, it was a tradition: a half hour of The Rifleman with the traditional Saturday night after-supper snack, followed by interminable hours of Hockey Night in Canada with potato chips (and a library book) to alleviate the boredom.


http://luckypuppyoddfacts.com/TVMovies.html

So ... what is it? (Never mind the smirking Chuck Connors; many people can't stand to look at him, so I apologize in advance.)

An episode this morning had a stereotypical little English fellow with the new-fangled rifle he had invented wanting to kill Chuck Connors in a shootout in order to make his name and fortune. He referred to Connors' Winchester as "ring-fired", I believe, which is obvious from the pictures/video.

He also fires from the hip ... something everyone here advises against, of course, as likely to result in inaccuracy, those pistol grips some regard as being problematic thus being no problem at all because no one would ever fire from the hip when attempting to, oh, subdue a crowd of people in order to, oh, rob a bank or escape ... but I digress.

The site I lifted that pic from refers to it as "a Winchester carbine with an enlarged trigger guard (like that of Rooster Cogburn, in the 1969 film True Grit)". (Oh yeah, at 9:30, if you haven't already, you really quickly switch over to CBC News, or hit play on your East Enders tape, or something, lest you catch the beginning of the 36 hours of John Wayne that AMC has lined up for you.)

The classic opening sequence, bangbangbangbang:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whG709cszo4

I see someone there seems to have mistaken the implement for a shotgun, which I was trying to figure out myself until I looked at it closely and saw only one firing barrel -- so okay, what is that reinforcement bit?


Do people still put rings on their Winchesters? Is it legal? ;)


I'll take this opportunity to mention again that if anybody should ever feel the irresistible impulse to gift me with a firearm thingy, something along these lines would be most appreciated:



Just give me notice so I can get the appropriate permit first!

[petronius]

1. If you mean the ring on the side of the rifle, just above the trigger, it's a saddle ring

It would be used to attach the rifle to a loop on the saddle to hang accessibly while riding one's trusty horse - nothing to do with shooting.

As for the big loop on the lever, maybe it's to make room for really heavy gloves or something, but my guess is it's stylistic and to allow for that nifty flip-cocking move (which people here would probably also advise against... :) )

On edit: I think actually the ring would connect to a sling on the rider, not the saddle - to keep rifle and rider together if rider and horse became separated...

[iverglas]

2. watch the video ;)

You have to be sure to see the very first two seconds, it may tend to start a little late.

It's the loop I meant.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnorthodoxReload

Chuck Conners used the flip-cock method for his rifle in The Rifleman.
It should be noted that the rifle had a custom, circular loop to facilitate the flip-cock.

I shoulda googled ...

[petronius]

13. That's one wacky English feller - I think you've found the inspiration for Stewie Griffin

:rofl:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpp2eWEmhL8

(And yes, it sounds like he does say "that rifle with the firing ring" at around 2:10 - but nobody really expects the English to know the proper names for things... ;))

[iverglas]

18. oh good, I can see how it ended!

I wandered off about halfway through ... didn't think of looking for the actual episode at youtube, ta. ;)

[iverglas]

20. heh - the wacky English feller

He did do a pretty good wacky job.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Malet

He played a villager in Young Frankenstein. ;)




Fun watching old series like that for who turns up.

Bonanza used to run at midnight here 15 years ago or so. The entire crew of the Starship Enterprise showed up at one time or another.

Spock
Bones
Scotty with Nurse Chappell/computer voice/Lwaxana Troi along for the ride too.
Damn, I was sure Capt. Kirk made his appearance, given that Pa was one of the Canuck contingent too and all (as was Scotty), but that must have been some other old thing ...

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

3. The Winchester 1894...

...was frequently chambered to accept the same ammo as popular revolvers. Sharing the same ammo between rifle and pistol just makes logistical sense. :)

[Old Codger]

5. 44-40

was most of it both rifle and revolver...

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

23. Thanks :) n/t

[one-eyed fat man]

25. See Winchester Model 1892

Another design from John Moses Browning. The 1892 is essentially a scaled down version of the Model 1886 designed for the .25-20, .32-20, .38-40 and .44-40 cartridges made popular by the the Model 1873 Winchester. Note the short loading gate to accommodate the .44 WCF family of cartridges. The .44-40 and to a lesser extent the .38-40 were popular with those who wanted a revolver and a saddle gun the used the same cartridge. So much so that the Colt Single action when chambered in .44-40 bore no caliber marking, the barrel was emblazoned with the legend, "Frontier Six-Shooter"



Browning also designed the 1894 Winchester so there is the family resemblance but it was made for a longer class of cartridges, the .30-30, .32-40, .38-55 as well as the .32 Winchester Special. It was also designed to take advantage of the then new smokeless powders.

[DWC]

4. Probably rim-fired, not "ring-fired", Listen again

[iverglas]

6. no, I may have paraphrased

but the reference was to the loopy thing ... has no one here ever actually watched The Rifleman??

[ManiacJoe]

8. Petronius got it in reply #1

As for the big loop on the lever, maybe it's to make room for really heavy gloves or something, but my guess is it's stylistic and to allow for that nifty flip-cocking move (which people here would probably also advise against... )

[Katya Mullethov]

11. Those rifles..... as prepared for that show

Had a #8-32 thread tapped into the cocking lever and a screw with locking nut were installed which would extended into the trigger guard and would contact and actuate the trigger just as the action closed causing it to discharge . Even as a wee lad I thought it a poorly conceived and dangerous modification .

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tortoise1956]

14. The big loopy thing...

is the lever, (I had to google it to make sure there wasn't a more technical term). A normal 1894 Winchester in .30-30 (such as the one I had until the ex-wife claimed it in the divorce) has a much smaller loop for the rest of the hand to fit into. However, I have seen rifles manufactured by other companies that had larger levers.

Yes, I used to watch the Rifleman, as well as Branded (another Chuck Conners show). They were much better when I was a young'un...

Shooting from the hip is deadly accurate - in Hollywood. In real life, not so much. I tried it with my 20-gauge shotgun when I was a teenager...and the target I was aiming at, from about 25, feet lived a pretty long life!

As for the shotguns in the picture, I'm afraid that if they ever come into my possession, I would have to keep them. After all, I wouldn't want you to have to go through all the hassle of filling out paperwork.:rofl:

[Hangingon]

7. Chuck Conners was a pro baseball and basketball player.

[virginia mountainman]

9. Let me help..

"I see someone there seems to have mistaken the implement for a shotgun, which I was trying to figure out myself until I looked at it closely and saw only one firing barrel -- so okay, what is that reinforcement bit?"

I believe your talking about the magazine... It is UNDER the barrel.. The bullets are in it "nose to tail".

This video will show how to UNLOAD one, and it shows the magazine..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIZpy3D938M

Notice that rifle in the video, does not have the saddle ring, and has a standard "lever" unlike the one Chuck Connor used..

My uncle used a Winchester with a large loop lever, it was so he could use the rifle, while wearing his gloves. Their are lever action shotguns but they are uncommon.

[ileus]

10. a coworker bought a 45 cowboy action today...

a real nice cowboy action type lever gun in the 750 range.
Speaking of double barrels I think that's going to be my next fun gun. I want a coach gun deluxe, something with real nice wood.

[Hangingon]

12. Brother in law shoots cowboy action.

His rig a couple of single actions, a model 92 replica and a coach gun. I guess it is pretty addictive.

[Atypical Liberal]

16. Winchester model 1892

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rifleman%27s_Rifle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1892

I have never seen this TV series, but according to Wikipedia it is a modified 1892 Winchester rifle. It had a screw threaded through the cocking lever that would hit the trigger as the cocking action was completed, thus making the weapon fire as soon as cocked. This was for theatrics, of course. Likewise the oversized cocking handle loop appears to be added for dramatic use of the firearm on TV, allowing the actor to cock the weapon one-handed. I think The Terminator does this in one of his movies also, as I recall.

The Holland & Holland shotguns shown in the last image run from $20K - $70K. Holland & Holland makes hand-crafted firearms. They are the only firearm manufacturer in the UK to hold a Royal Warrant.

[Kennah]

28. Terminator II and a Winchester Model 1887 shotgun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminator_2:_Judgment_Day#Production_2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1887

[gejohnston]

17. The shotguns (or double rifles), Holland and Holland?

You have expensive tastes. Not something you would find at Walmart. IIRC, only three gun shops in the world carry them. One in NYC, London, and Moscow.

[iverglas]

19. ta to all who played!

I will approach my Saturday mornings, uh, armed with the necessary info now.

Actually, I probably won't have much chance for some time now. Premier League season has started and hogging of television most Saturday mornings has begun.

Keep an eye out for bargains on one of those fancy pants tools for me, now.

[Callisto32]

21. You'd be far better served by a double with a single, selective trigger.

Double triggers are just a needless complication of controls. :D

[one-eyed fat man]

26. That is an odd statement.

It is the selective single trigger that is the complex mechanism. Double triggers are two completely independent firing mechanisms located side by side. Classic dangerous game double rifles had two triggers so as to have complete redundancy and therein lay their popularity with PH's in Africa long after magazine rifles became popular elsewhere.

In a sporting shotgun double triggers are sometimes associated with low grade guns as they are much cheaper to produce. Those of us who grew up hunting with one appreated the instant ability to select which barrel to fire by shifting triggers. By convention the front trigger fires the right, more open choked barrel, while the left, usually tighter choked barrel, is fired by the rear trigger.

It is arguably faster to simply slide from front to back trigger than to remove the pressure to allow the single trigger to reset. A scarce and desirable Parker “000” frame DHE-grade 410-gauge S/S, sold for $41,400 at auction in 2008. Beats what my mutual fund did.

[iverglas]

27. I'd missed that; it's a pretty one

I prefer the ones with birds on them. ;)

Just ran across this:

(not actually looking for gun art, but it turned up)

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/Community/Heritage-and-History/article/16642/trailblazing-shotgun-among-rare-items-in-gleneagles-hotel-auction.html

Trailblazing shotgun among rare items in Gleneagles Hotel auction

A significant 12-bore shotgun and an iconic walking cane are among items to be auctioned at Gleneagles Hotel.

... Among the highlights will be the first 12-bore over-and-under gun built by Boss & Co in 1909, which is estimated to fetch £10,000–£15,000.

This has been copied by almost every maker since, and is the father of the modern over-and-under sporting shotgun.

... Also included in the auction will be a walking cane that belonged to Lord Ripon — considered to be the greatest sporting shot of all time.

The cane was engraved with his, ahem, coat of arms and expected to sell for between £800 and £1,200.

[one-eyed fat man]

29. The old London "best" guns

Makers like Holland & Holland, Purdey, Boss, Wesley Richards et al, were virtually all custom made guns, for the most part, sidelocks. With try guns and a customer's measurements taken as meticulously as any London tailor.

Parker shotguns, were mass-produced boxlock guns. That the level of craftsmanship evident in DHE level of Parker, L.C Smith and Ithaca guns was attainable on a factory floor says something about the level of manufacturing that was routine in the twenties and thirties.

[pipoman]

22. The large loops can be purchased on eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com/WINCHESTER-94-LARGE-LOOP-LEVER-SADDLE-RING-/110729263400?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c7fa7928

This one is more like John Wayne's, I have seen the more circular lever like The Rifleman's on there too...and yes it is completely legal in the US.

[Remmah2]

24. Hollywood has contributed to a multitude of firearm myths.

The "large lever" is designed for use with gloves. Great for winter shooting but you lose a lot of sensitivity and control between the oversized loop and a pair of insulated gloves.

If you're ever down in NYC go to the Beretta Showroom, gun room on the third floor. Lots of super custom Beretta O/U and SxS shotguns ranging in price from $5000 to $70000 (US). Ironically, not sold in NYC but they ship anywhere in the US to a FFL for local pickup.