Great quote by Orwell on firearms and democracy.

[Remmah2]

"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
— George Orwell

[baldguy]

1. A country in the midst of an armed insurrection cannot be a democracy.

And it certainly wouldn't be Constitutional.

[krispos42]

5. How did it get into an armed insurrection?

If it was a democracy, the conditions leading to an armed insurrection probably would not have occurred, yes?

[baldguy]

20. I'm guessing you don't know how to click on a link?

[krispos42]

21. The one you graciously provided?

;-)

[baldguy]

23. I'm guessing you don't know what a link looks like?

[krispos42]

28. Why no, I don't

How did you guess? I mean, I am a part-time webmaster... what would lowly me know about html?





Pick one.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

6. I see your pie chart...

...frequently when you post and decided to check it out a bit. I had some questions:
- The 100% shown in the chart; who qualifies to be part of it?
- What is meant by "wealth"?

Edit: I r a gud spellir. :)

[iverglas]

8. are you kidding?

You actually know nothing about wealth disparity in the US ... ?

Interesting that you raised it.

If Eric Blair were living in the US today, I wonder what he would be doing something about.

(a) The huge and growing income/wealth disparities in the country and the misery and other negative consequences thereof
(b) Firearms control and the efforts of the right wing to undermine it

Hmm.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

10. Yes but...

...can you answer the questions?

[iverglas]

13. can I answer the questions?

Why would I, or anyone? Is your google broken?

http://www.google.ca/search?complete=0&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1024&bih=612&q=wealth+disparity+%22united+states%22&btnG=Google+Search

The first one in that list should help. There are even some wikis.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

18. Actually, no.

Please feel free to remain on that soap box. I didn't actually want to speak with you.

[iverglas]

22. then here's a suggestion ... wait for it ...

Don't ask me questions.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

29. 'tis okay.

I was looking info that you didn't have.
It's all good in the 'hood. ;)

[TheWraith]

15. That would be news to the Second Continental Congress. nt

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

19. Since no answer is in the near future:

About your "wealth" chart, between 30 and 35% of Americans are either under 18 or disabled. How does that fit the bottom 40%?

[iverglas]

25. done your homework yet?

Or just content to ask dumb questions?

[DWC]

2. That rifle on the wall

has has been used to put meat on the table and defended against violence since long before our Constitution and BoR were written.

The 2nd amendment simply recognizes the individual's natural right to tools of provision and defense.

Well said Mr. Orwell.

Semper Fi,

[iverglas]

26. odd how Blair was British

and probably wasn't the slightest bit interested in your constitution and all its bits and pieces, and nothing he said had the first thing to do with any of them.

So I guess you just don't have any clue as to what he was actually talking about, eh?

[DWC]

30. Back at you.

You wrote:
" odd how Blair was British
Posted by iverglas
and probably wasn't the slightest bit interested in your constitution and all its bits and pieces, and nothing he said had the first thing to do with any of them.

So I guess you just don't have any clue as to what he was actually talking about, eh?"

Change the name but the situation is the same.

odd how you are Canadian
and probably aren't the slightest bit interested in our constitution and all its bits and pieces, and nothing you say had the first thing to do with any of them.

So I guess you just don't have any clue as to what you are actually talking about, eh?

Sarcasm cuts both ways.

Semper Fi,

[iverglas]

32. um, that wasn't sarcasm

that was just hugely and incredibly dumb.

You really don't seem to be able to string two words together to make sense.

[DWC]

36. The validity of the comparison is indisputable.

Your sarcasm does not work and neither does your baseless ridicule.

Try some other Alinsky rule next time.

Semper Fi,

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

34. It seems...

...beyond doubt that the author's story was a criticism of Soviet government. There is also little doubt that the two principles in the cold war were the Soviet bloc and the US. Maybe you've heard that 'my enemy's enemy is my friend' or is that not such a good idea?

[Hoyt]

3. I think Orwell is right -- leave the dang thing on the wall.

[ileus]

4. Leave the long gun at home...the handgun is for when out in public.

[SteveM]

16. Yes, I've torn out enough seams trying to raise a shotgun. Meh. nt

[iverglas]

7. so now we know you can find stuff on the internet

Can you tell us what Orwell/Blair meant?

Maybe you can explain, while you're at it, why he was a rat who provided intelligence to the British government about many of his fellow members of the arts and culture community/industry in the UK who were no threat to democracy or anything else ...

[iverglas]

9. this may help ...

http://www.orwelltoday.com/orwellguns.shtml

Anybody here expecting an invasion this year?


I hate to do people's homework for you, but here you go:

http://home.comcast.net/~alleman.b/bill/quotespol.htm

The complete quotation and source is there. I use that source because I find it really funny to see where Orwell is quoted. The source given up top also has this discussion, with these quotations (the first being the one from this thread, in more complete form):

http://www.orwelltoday.com/readerriflequote.shtml

'Even as it stands the Home Guard could only exist in a country where men feel themselves free. The totalitarian states can do great things, but there is one thing they cannot do, they cannot give the factory worker a rifle and tell him to take it home and keep it in his bedroom. THAT RIFLE HANGING ON THE WALL OF THE WORKING-CLASS FLAT OR LABOURER'S COTTAGE IS THE SYMBOL OF DEMOCRACY. IT IS OUR JOB TO SEE IT STAYS THERE.'

'The communists, the ILP, and all their kind can parrot 'Arms for the Workers', but they cannot put a rifle into the workers' hands. The Home Guard can and does. The moral for any socialist who is reasonably fit and can spare a certain amount of time is obvious... Any socialist who obtains influence in the Home Guard will do it by being conspicuously obedient, efficient and self-sacrificing.'

Blair was a socialist (and did hate communists). The idea of his words being used by the modern-day right wing must have him spinning.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

11. I'm not sure...

...that there is help... for you.

Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted. ;)

[Atypical Liberal]

12. Being prepared doesn't mean you expect it.

Anybody here expecting an invasion this year?

I'm not expecting to be in a car accident this year, but I still wear my seatbelt every day.

I'm not expecting any carbon monoxide poisoning this year, but I still have carbon monoxide detectors.

I'm not expecting any home fires this year, but I still have insurance, smoke detectors, and insurance.

I'm not expecting to die this year, but I still have life insurance.

Blair was a socialist (and did hate communists). The idea of his words being used by the modern-day right wing must have him spinning.

Blair sees firearms as a symbol of Democracy. Others see it as a more literal symbol - the ability to project force.

[iverglas]

14. rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb

I'm not expecting to need any snake venom this year, but I guess I should get a couple of specimens and keep them in my yard just in case I do.

It's just so entertaining how none of the little "analogies" you people come up with are actually analogies at all.


Blair sees firearms as a symbol of Democracy.

No, he did not. But if I thought the truth was any inhibition to you and your fellow travellers saying anything, well, I'd be deluded.

[Atypical Liberal]

17. My bad.

No, he did not. But if I thought the truth was any inhibition to you and your fellow travellers saying anything, well, I'd be deluded.

I assumed the quote you quoted of "THAT RIFLE HANGING ON THE WALL OF THE WORKING-CLASS FLAT OR LABOURER'S COTTAGE IS THE SYMBOL OF DEMOCRACY. IT IS OUR JOB TO SEE IT STAYS THERE.'" was from Blair, since you mentioned him directly after the quote.

I'm not expecting to need any snake venom this year, but I guess I should get a couple of specimens and keep them in my yard just in case I do.

Why not? If it's inexpensive, why not get some? We are modern, tool-using humans. The cost of the tools is usually cheap compared to the consequences of needing the tools and not having them. So why not be prepared?

I'm not saying everyone needs to be prepared (though I think they should be), but everyone should have the right to be prepared if they choose to.

It's just so entertaining how none of the little "analogies" you people come up with are actually analogies at all.

Yeah, because they don't fit in with your worldview of how people should prepare for emergencies. It's acceptable to you to own spare tires and smoke detectors such because you can't easily kill anyone with them. You just refuse to accept that there might be times when the emergency requires you to kill someone.

[iverglas]

24. ..........

I assumed the quote you quoted of "THAT RIFLE HANGING ON THE WALL OF THE WORKING-CLASS FLAT OR LABOURER'S COTTAGE IS THE SYMBOL OF DEMOCRACY. IT IS OUR JOB TO SEE IT STAYS THERE.'" was from Blair, since you mentioned him directly after the quote.

Uh ... yes ... and to be sure we're all on the same page, Blair = Orwell.

Your assertion was that he saw firearms as the symbol of democracy. I said no, he didn't.

He saw the rifle ISSUED BY THE BRITISH HOME GUARD DURING WORLD WAR TWO IN PREPARATION FOR FIGHTING AXIS FORCES as a symbol of democracy. It was the fact that the government issued firearms to the public that he was talking about.

Why not? If it's inexpensive, why not get some?

The specimens I was referring to were the snakes, not the venom. I want to be able to reload. My choice. Sadly, my jurisdiction prohibits the possession of venomous snakes, I believe. Not fair. They're not the boss of me.

It's just so entertaining how none of the little "analogies" you people come up with are actually analogies at all.
Yeah, because they don't fit in with your worldview of how people should prepare for emergencies.

No ... because, oddly enough, not a single one of them involves planning to do harm to a single other person.

It's acceptable to you to own spare tires and smoke detectors such because you can't easily kill anyone with them.

Duh! And of course because no one actually does kill or otherwise harm, or intimidate, anyone with them, or use them to facilitate crimes, children don't kill themselves with them, etc. etc.

You just refuse to accept that there might be times when the emergency requires you to kill someone.

Yeah, pretty much. And damned if I haven't been right so far.

[GreenStormCloud]

31. Back in the 1950s in Texas we kept a snake-bite kit.

Most stores in rural areas sold them. They were small and could be carried in your pocket. For those of us were outdoors a lot it was just a good precaution to have one in your pocket, just in case. On several occasions back then I came very close to getting bitten. Now that I live in a town and haven't seen a wild rattlesnake in decades I don't have such a kit.

I keep and carry guns because violent crime is real and I will not be a passive victim.

[ileus]

27. scumbags are out there....refuse to be a victim.

[iverglas]

33. so did anybody manage to figure out what Blair was saying?

"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
— George Orwell

I figure my explanation got missed, since nobody seems to have smacked their head and thanked me.

Blair (Orwell) was saying that the fact that the British Home Office issued rifles to ordinary people (in preparation for having to defend against an invasion in WWII) was the symbol of democracy -- precisely because authoritarian states do not issue firearms to the population.

The issuance of weapons to ordinary people for use in the collective defence of the nation was his subject.

Blair was a socialist.

Sadly, in his hatred of communists, he went on to supply intelligence to the British government post-war that resulted in entirely innocent and very non-communist people in the arts and culture community losing their livelihoods.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

35. Communists...

...are just another group who've been duped by socialists. ;)