Registration and Licensing from the Alien Perspective

[mikeb302000]

http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/">(cross posted at Mikeb302000)

Aliens from a distant galaxy were approaching our solar system. Identifying Earth as the only habitable planet, they came for a closer look. One of the first things they noticed from a great distance was the air traffic and high-speed train movement. Realizing these were conveyances for moving people, they marvelled at the efficiency and complete lack of collisions and near-collisions. The coordination was impressive.

Coming a bit closer they began seeing the cars. Unlike the larger means of transportation, these seemed to be involved in countless mishaps and explosions. Everywhere they looked cars were running into each other and into other objects. The death and destruction was incalculable.

One alien said to the other, since these primitive vehicles are operated by humans, why don't they assign a numerical designation to each one which could be linked to the operator. This way they could easily identify the ones causing all the trouble.

The other alien, scanning the highly-advanced computer system, said, it seems they already have done this. Perhaps it means the quantity of problems has already been reduced to the level we observe.

Coming still closer, but maintaining a distant orbit, they began to observe another phenomenon: gunshots. They recognized these as primitive projectile-ejecting weapons. With each blast their computers registered the event. They watched horrified and amazed that a civilization advanced enough to register all cars and license all car-drivers would allow this.

Wouldn't registering those guns and tying them to the users the way they've done with cars eliminate much of the damage, asked the first alien.

The other more senior crew member said sadly it's time to return and make our report.

[Kennah]

1. Unrec for improper galaxy

[mikeb302000]

5. It's good to know you do have a sense of humor

after all.

[Remmah2]

9. Up Uranus! nt

nt

[Kennah]

31. But I never kill and tell

[ileus]

2. Isn't there a cowboys vs aliens movie out?

[Kennah]

28. Didn't it open and close the same weekend?

I'm waiting for Nazis on the Moon, aka Iron Sky.

[SteveM]

40. He'll be hearing from his attorney, soon. nt

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

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[baldguy]

4. Yes, it is the gungeon after all.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

10. Good call

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ileus]

6. I suppose aliens have never heard of stolen cars...ID10TS

[ileus]

7. Would have been funny if it was illegal aliens from mexico smuggling guns.

I'm sure the story would have been different.

[Atypical Liberal]

8. The first alien looked to the second one and said...

"Look, Blurghhaa! Free people, trusted by their leaders to own the means of their downfall! Truly this is a civilized place."

[rrneck]

11. Analogy fail.

1. A car won't fit in your pocket.

2. When you screw up with a car it usually gets damaged. Some call it forensic evidence.

3. Cars are almost never used for self defense.

You have yet to explain how you plan to pay for this scheme. You have yet to explain how you will avoid impacting the civil rights of people who will not misuse a firearm. You have yet to produce a better solution for self defense than a firearm.

All you have done so far is waste everybody's time but your own on this useless drivel.

[iverglas]

12. well, some people do have a sense of humour!

3. Cars are almost never used for self defense.

Good one!

Can I play?

4. Children are almost never used for self-defence.

... and yet those fool humans register them.

:rofl:

[gravity556]

13. I could probably make a fairly decent cudgel with a toddler.

Just sayin'.

[iverglas]

17. you might enjoy this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=21533&mesg_id=21533

see post 17

:evilgrin:

[rrneck]

14. Some children

grow up to be killers. Should we assume everyone will and monitor them accordingly?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

23. You register children up there? Do you need licenses as well?

Things do appear to have changed since I last visited

[Glassunion]

16. Our plan is working!!

When the Zombie Space Aliens attack, they will have no idea who has firearms. They can stuff that in their report...

3-Simple rules for Zombie Space Aliens.
1. Choose your weapon
2. Aim for the head
3. Don't miss (or it will eat your brains)

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Remmah2]

19. Intergalactic Castle Doctrine

[jmg257]

20. You forgot the 2nd to the last line...The second alien said "No, dumbass - but it would make it...

much easier for us to find out which ones, the honest ones anyway, had the guns when we came to invade. We could then more easily disarm a small segment of the population, leaving them more vulnerable to attack and violation."

The other more senior crew member then said sadly it's time to return and make our report...

thinking to himself..."We can't win!...and WTF do cars have to do with guns???".

[iverglas]

21. are they Pakleds or something?

Those are some kind of unsmart aliens, roaming the galaxy with no weapons more fearsome than some earthling's Glock. Yeesh.


The second to last line is actually: Arm photon torpedos.

The last line then being: Burp.


Kind of like it would be if the big bad (elected) domestic government of the USofA itself decided to enslave the population of the land, and the locals came out shooting against the drones and bombers and suchlike assorted toys.

[jmg257]

22. Ha - perfect..."The last line then being: Burp."

Yep - photon torpedoes or hellfires - no contest!

[eallen]

24. What fraction of murders might be solved through registration?

I suspect it is pretty small. I don't often hear of a case where the police have a gun, have no idea who the murderer is, and think they could find out if only the gun were registered.

:hippie:

[iverglas]

25. what's the obsession with murders?

How about the injuries, the costs to the health care system, the costs to the economy generally, the trauma to people robbed and injured (and yes, killed) and to their families and communities, the costs to communities awash in firearms and beset by violence in terms of development and opportunities?

I don't often hear of a case where the police have a gun, have no idea who the murderer is, and think they could find out if only the gun were registered.

Perhaps you should spend less time dancing with the straw people the gun militants stitch together.

The main function of registration isn't actually to enable tracing of crime guns.

It is to deter the creation of crime guns in the first place, by putting registered owners on notice that crime guns can be traced to them.

Registration means that every transfer of a firearm must be registered, and thus must be to an eligible owner only.

Pat the law-abiding gun owner is going to be just a little more careful about transferring his or her firearm by advertising it on the grocery store bulletin board and exchanging it for a wad of cash. Hopefully, a lot fewer Pats will do that, because if the transfer isn't registered, they're in shit for making an unregistered transfer if the gun is used in a crime and recovered. Law-abiding gun owners tend to want to avoid that kind of bother.

Sam the gun trafficker is going to think twice about the straw purchases he or she likes to make, whether it's buying a couple of handguns in the south and driving them up the iron pipeline to the north and maybe over the border, for quick sale to a thug or two, or doing a slightly larger trade maybe at a gun show in Ohio.

Registration is a means of allowing law-abiding gun owners to avoid transfers to ineligible persons, and deterring them from doing so.

And if a gun is traced back to a legal owner who can't account for it, then that person will be subject to enforcement action for an illegal transfer and have a reasonable incentive to identify the person to whom it was transferred illegally.

Of course, it's also a way of determining that someone involved in, say, a domestic hostage-taking has guns when police are called (no, it won't tell you that the person has unregistered guns, but the knowledge that someone does have guns can be useful nonetheless). And it's a way of enforcing orders to surrender firearms (again, not the unregistered ones, but nobody else is expecting perfection).

The higher the compliance rate gets -- through enforcement when non-compliance is identified, and through public information and education campaigns, and through registration of all new firearms transfers -- the more effective the scheme becomes.

I hope that helps.

[eallen]

34. Accidental deaths from firearms are few. Drowning is more common.

In contrast to cars, guns don't account for much death from accident. And that, usually on those participating in gun sports. So there's not a large public issue there.

Which leaves murders.

:hippie:

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iverglas]

58. I see some pearls were clutched

And I still don't know what in the fucking fuck you are talking about. None of your posts appear to actually respond to anything in the posts you are replying to, so I'm not going to bother trying to reconstruct whatever educational endeavour I had engaged in here, as it seems pointless.

I believe my point has been, all along: murders are not the single or even most significant harmful effect of unrestricted access to firearms.

Not: firearms murders/deaths are this, that or the other thing in comparison to some other kind of murders/deaths.

I think that was apparent from my very first subject line in the subthread, but you've managed to avoid tripping on it so far.

Should you come up with anything to say in that regard, do let me know.

[mikeb302000]

some would be solved, sure

but many would be prevented. Registrtation and licensing would compel you guy owners to hang onto your weaponry better and to be responsible for what you own.

[gejohnston]

33. would be solved only if

gun would be left behind and if the gun was registered or legally owned to begin with. That eliminates most US and European gun murders because they are black market guns owned by gangsters.

[iverglas]

37. "if the gun was registered or legally owned to begin with"

And tell us -- exactly how many guns would not have been, once all new firearms were subject to the requirement that transfers be registered.

they are black market guns owned by gangsters

Yes, and they materialized magically in the middle of the black market at the corner of Fifth and Elm when a couple of gangsters clicked their heels and said "white rabbits" three times fast.

[eallen]

42. The estimate of handguns in the US is 60 to 70 million. Only about 2 million new each year.

Guns aren't cars. They last longer, and need to be replaced much less frequently.

So, no, closely monitoring ownership of new guns would not soon result in an environment where most guns, or even a large fraction, are registered.

Which means, to achieve that, you would have to require owners of existing guns to come in and register them. Good luck with that.

:hippie:

[iverglas]

43. so?

Require that the 2 million new each year be registered at first purchase and at every transfer thereafter.

And require that the whole lot of the ones now in circulation be registered. Any "law-abiding gun owner" in the land will abide by the law. Hahahahahaha.

For all the truly law-abiding gun owners who do, those firearms will then also be in the system and any subsequent transfer would have to be registered -- i.e. would have to be to an eligible purchaser.

Of course, there could also be provisions like total amnesty for any law-abiding gun owner in otherwise legal possession of a handgun, but who hadn't registered it, when they transferred it legally (i.e. by a registered transfer) to someone else.

It's amazing what can be thought of even in just a few seconds like that, if we follow the thought Robert Kennedy cribbed from George Bernard Shaw ... and dream of things the way they could be and ask "why not?" instead of just saying "nononononono".


So, no, closely monitoring ownership of new guns would not soon result in an environment where most guns, or even a large fraction, are registered.

Do you use high-grade straw?

Why, with you saying "So, no," and all, someone might actually think that someone else had said that closely monitoring ownership of new guns WOULD "soon" result in blah blah.

It wasn't me. Was there someone else in this conversation?

Two million a year -- in 10 years, that's 20 milllion even at current rates. In 30 years or less there will be as many handguns again in circulation as there are now. Just imagine, if you started today ...


Which means, to achieve that, you would have to require owners of existing guns to come in and register them. Good luck with that.

Gosh darn it, you can't even remember what you're talking about.

You started out with:

What fraction of murders might be solved through registration?

And I pointed out that you were already battling straw, since solving murders is not the only or even primary purpose of registration.

Now you've changed channels and you're telling me that law-abiding gun owners won't register their guns.

If you're planning to tell me your spaghetti sauce recipe is better than mine, just give me a few minutes to go check a couple of ingredient amounts, before you move those goalposts anywhere else.

I've explained the benefits of registration to you. If you wish to refute my argument, give it a shot.

[eallen]

45. "Hahahahaha," indeed. If you think even a small fraction of existing guns will get registered...

You're living in a dreamworld.

I understand that what you're proposing might have some benefit if creating a new social order de novo. And assuming that there were enough trust between those who want to register guns and those who own them to create that sort of order.

But we don't get to create social order from scratch. That trust doesn't exist. Most existing guns never will be registered regardless of what laws are passed in that regard.

Years from now, when your children die from old age, there will not be an effective way to track the majority of guns in the US. The aliens from the original post would understand the importance of path dependence.

:hippie:

[iverglas]

46. "You're living in a dreamworld."

I suppose you could say that.

I live in Canada.

Your silly games lost their entertainment value a good post back.

[eallen]

48. I was discussing the US. Sorry, if that created confusion.

But yeah, it's true, different histories and different cultures lead to different possibilities. As I said previously, path dependence is real.

:hippie:

[iverglas]

49. no, you were discussing gun registration

You did your best to set up a straw target and knock it down:

What fraction of murders might be solved through registration?
I suspect it is pretty small. I don't often hear of a case where the police have a gun, have no idea who the murderer is, and think they could find out if only the gun were registered.

and you've been trying to dig yourself out from under it ever since.

[gejohnston]

50. Well, European and UK gangsters don't get them

from the US. Neither do Mexican ones for the most part. You can get a sub machine gun or pistol in London for 200 pounds. Do you think either would be by straw purchases in the US?

[iverglas]

51. don't get them from the US, so one supposes ...

they drop like lawn darts from the sky.

How do you know where they get them, anyhow?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_arms_importation

To continue and escalate their armed campaign, the IRA needed to be better equipped, which meant securing modern small arms. In previous campaigns weapons had been secured before hostilities commenced via raids on British Army and even Irish Army weapons depots. In the 1969–1971 period this was no longer feasible. By 1972, the IRA had large quantities of modern small arms, particularly Armalite rifles, manufactured and purchased in the United States. The AR-18 rifle in particular was found to be very well suited to the Provisionals' purposes as its small size and folding stock meant that it was easy to conceal. Moreover, it was capable of rapid fire and fired a high velocity round which provided great "stopping power".

The IRA's main gun runner in the USA was George Harrison, an IRA veteran, resident in New York since 1938. ... Harrison spent an estimated US$1 million in the 1970s purchasing over 2,500 guns for the IRA. ...

What exactly is your issue here?

That guns would be trafficked into the US from elsewhere?

So that's what international organizations and treaties and enforcement measures are for. Get that small arms treaty going now, put some muscle into gun-trafficking enforcement, and you'll be prepared.

There really aren't likely to be guns getting trafficked to planet Earth from the moons of Jupiter.

All kinds of stuff, and people, are trafficked around the planet. Nobody has eliminated crime, domestic or international, yet. Nobody generally throws up their hands and says "have at it, boys", either, when the problem is serious and the harm severe.

[gejohnston]

52. Aside from the IRA

and Armilite rifles. European crime guns follow the drug trade. If you read the article, the US American purchased them from a organized crime figure from Corsica. Being select fire, it was a machine gun and regulated as such under the National Firearms Act of 1934.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-18

No straw purchases there.

[iverglas]

53. what's that I hear?

the US American purchased them from a organized crime figure from Corsica

Oh dear, an Italian-American?

They (not "it" - a lot of them) were bought and sold in the US.

Being select fire, it was a machine gun and regulated as such under the National Firearms Act of 1934.

Well duh then, eh? The IRA did not have them, and they certainly did not get them from the USA.

No straw purchases there.

And no gun trafficking! They dropped like lawn darts into Mr. Corsican-American's hands, and slipped through his fingers to the IRA.


Where did you say you lived?

http://newsroom-magazine.com/2011/executive-branch/justice-department/atf/atf-breaks-up-gun-trafficking-to-britain/

50-Count Indictment Returned Charging Raleigh Man in International Gun Trafficking Case

RALEIGH — United States Attorney George E.B. Holding announced that yesterday a Federal Grand Jury returned a Superseding Indictment charging, STEVEN NEAL GREENOE, a United States citizen, in the illegal export of firearms from the United States to the United Kingdom.

"The magnitude of this case touches not only U.S. citizens but our great British allies. Our federal firearms laws were put into place to protect our citizens; however, our obligation as good neighbors is just as important to ensure that others are not harmed by individuals who break our firearms laws," stated Mr. Holding. "We remain committed to the vigorous prosecution of firearms cases and will continue to work with our international neighbors to bring those who break the law to justice."

STEVEN NEAL GREENOE, 37, of Raleigh, North Carolina, was charged with conspiring to export firearms illegally from the United States, in violation of ...

According to the Superseding Indictment, GREENOE, and at least two other individuals he recruited, either personally or on his behalf, obtained pistol purchase permits, completed the Form 4473 Firearms Transaction Record required to purchase firearms, and purchased firearms. After purchasing the firearms, GREENOE took the firearms apart and disguised the firearms as machining engineering samples and inert firearms and concealed them in his checked luggage. As alleged in the Indictment, on nine occasions, from February 22, 2010, to July 25, 2010, GREENOE concealed a total of 63 pistols in his checked luggage and traveled from Raleigh, North Carolina to the United Kingdom.

No straw purchases there ... and certainly no gun trafficking from the US to the UK.


A lot of people spend their time and money obtaining handguns in the UK and smuggling them into the US, I imagine. Turnabout is fair trade, and all.

After all, it's so easy to get handguns in the UK (that people smuggle them in), and so hard to get them in the US (that people buy them in job lots) ...

[gejohnston]

54. say what?

The IRA did have AR-18s, and there was gun trafficking. So what the hell is your point? Did they have them or not? What the hell does Italian American have to do with anything? You think the mob went to Wal Mart or a gun show and bought machine guns to send to Corsica?

Your link does not work. One case does not make a trend.

Only plutocrats buy British made guns.

[iverglas]

55. it would help if you would read your own posts

What the hell does Italian American have to do with anything? You think the mob went to Wal Mart or a gun show and bought machine guns to send to Corsica?

The trafficker in the US was Corsican, something you made a big deal of, not me. I didn't see anything about any guns coming from Corsica.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Meo

George de Meo was a Corsican-American arms dealer, most famous for supplying weapons to the Irish Republican Army through their operative George Harrison.

De Meo lived near Harrison in Brooklyn, having moved there with family in 1949, and owned a gun store in the city. De Meo supplied guns not only to the IRA, but also to Cuban rebels.

Damn, eh? Yes, the IRA had the guns, and yes, they got them from a licensed gun dealer in the United States.


The link to the article about the smuggled handguns works fine for me. I gave you the salient information. Try cutting and pasting.

http://newsroom-magazine.com/2011/executive-branch/
justice-department/atf/atf-breaks-up-gun-trafficking-to-britain/



typo fixed

[gejohnston]

56. link still does not work for me

I get this error: Error 310 (net::ERR_TOO_MANY_REDIRECTS): There were too many redirects.

One FFL out of how many? Still not the machine guns.
Pre 1977, How many Canadian dealers were also illegally guns?

[iverglas]

57. you are not doing well here, are you?

I have no idea what your problem with the link is. It works when I use it. You could easily find the entire thing by a simple google. What is your point?


One FFL out of how many?

WHO THE FUCK CARES???

One is TOO many. Guns were trafficked FROM THE U.S. to the IRA.

Did you look at the wiki link?

It has a very few headings:

Provisional Irish Republican Army arms importation
1 American arms
2 Libyan arms
2.1 Compensation claims
3 Other arms sources
4 Recent arms deals
5 Decommissioning of arms
6 References

Here's the complete text of the "American arms" section, with some emphases to help you:

In the early stages of the Troubles, during the period 1969–1971, the Provisional IRA (IRA) was very poorly armed. They had access to weapons remaining from the IRA's failed Border Campaign between 1956 and 1962, but these weapons were outdated and unsuitable for a modern campaign.<4>

After 1969, and the split with the Official IRA, the IRA gained control over a majority of the stockpiled weaponry still held from previous IRA campaigns. They found that the stockpiles consisted mostly of World War II small arms ranging from Lee Enfield & M1 Garand rifles, to MP40 & Thompson submachine guns (SMG), plus Bren light machine guns (LMG) and Webley revolvers.<5>

To continue and escalate their armed campaign, the IRA needed to be better equipped, which meant securing modern small arms. In previous campaigns weapons had been secured before hostilities commenced via raids on British Army and even Irish Army weapons depots. In the 1969–1971 period this was no longer feasible.<6> By 1972, the IRA had large quantities of modern small arms, particularly Armalite rifles, manufactured and purchased in the United States. The AR-18 rifle in particular was found to be very well suited to the Provisionals' purposes as its small size and folding stock meant that it was easy to conceal. Moreover, it was capable of rapid fire and fired a high velocity round which provided great "stopping power".<7>

The IRA's main gun runner in the USA was George Harrison, an IRA veteran, resident in New York since 1938. Harrison bought guns for the IRA from a Corsican arms dealer <IN BROOKLYN> named George de Meo, who had connections in organised crime. All sources agree that Harrison was funded by the "Irish Northern Aid Committee" or NORAID, a fundraising and support group for the IRA. <8> Joe Cahill acted as the contact between NORAID and Harrison. In 1971, the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) had already seized 700 modern weapons from the IRA, including 2 tonnes of high explosive and 157,000 rounds of ammunition, most of which were US made.<9>

(photo) The Armalite AR-18 - obtained by the IRA from the US in the early 1970s and an emotive symbol of its armed campaign.

Harrison spent an estimated US$1 million in the 1970s purchasing over 2,500 guns for the IRA.<10> According to Brendan Hughes, an IRA member who later became Officer Commanding of the IRA inside Long Kesh prison, the IRA smuggled small arms from America by sea on the Queen Elizabeth II from New York via Southampton,<7> through Irish members of her crew, until the network was cracked down by the FBI in the 1980s.<11> These Queen Elizabeth II shipments included M16, CAR-15, AR-18 and AR-15 Armalite assault rifles, accompanied by Browning pistols and Smith & Wesson pistols and revolvers and were driven from Southampton to Belfast in small consignments.

In the late 1970s, another IRA member, Gabriel Megahey, was sent to America to acquire more arms and he was able to procure more AR-15 Armalites, plus a number of Heckler and Koch rifles and other weapons. Again, the purchase of these weapons was funded by Irish American republicans.<12> A batch of M60 machine guns was imported in 1977.<13>

Harrison was arrested by the FBI in 1981, but acquitted at his trial.<10> Megahey was arrested by the FBI in 1982 after a successful "sting operation", where he was trying to purchase surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) for the IRA, and sentenced to seven years in prison.<12>

In 1984, the FBI warned Ireland that a major IRA arms shipment was underway from the U.S., and that the weaponry would be transferred to an Irish fishing trawler in the Atlantic. Subsequently, Irish authorities discovered that arms ship was a vessel named Marita Ann, allegedly after a tip off Sean O'Callaghan, an IRA informant for Garda Síochána (Irish police).<10> Three Irish Naval Service ships confronted the vessel off the coast of County Kerry, and prevented its escape by firing warning shots. A team of naval personnel and Garda officers boarded the ship, arresting the crew of five and confiscating seven tons of military equipment, as well as medications, training manuals, and communications equipment.

The guns were not trafficked from Corsica or anywhere else -- they were trafficked FROM THE U.S.

Interestingly too:

At one stage the PLO offered weapons and training to the IRA, but they declined on the grounds that it was impossible to smuggle arms out of the Middle East without alerting Israeli intelligence.

It IS possible to combat gun trafficking.

And under "Recent arms deals:"

In the 1990s, the Provisional IRA South Armagh Brigade imported a number of high velocity Barrett Light 50 and Barrett Model 90 sniper rifles from the United States.<31><32> These weapons were used by two Armagh ASUs to conduct a sniping campaign against British Army patrols operating in the area. The last British soldier killed in Northern Ireland during The Troubles, Stephen Restorick, was shot dead with a Barrett rifle in 1997. Soon after, the leader of one of the Armagh sniper squads, Michael Caraher, was captured and a Barrett rifle recovered.

... In July 1999, three men, Anthony Smyth, Conor Claxton, and Martin Mullan, along with an accomplice, Siobhan Browne, were arrested by the American FBI and ATF agencies and accused of buying 44 handguns from arms dealers in Florida in the United States and posting 15 of the weapons to Ireland and the United Kingdom.<35> Later estimates put the number of guns sent to Ireland at more than 100 pistols and machine-pistols.<36>

Now if you expect me or anyone to believe that IRA operatives are the only ones to have figured out that the US is a source for firearms that can't be readily sourced in the UK ... well, don't hold your breath.

[gejohnston]

manufactured in the US

stolen from the US unless you are saying Armilite sold them illegally to the mob who sold them to the IRA. Other than overpriced sporting arms, the UK does not make anything worth stealing.

[gejohnston]

60. manufactured in the US

stolen from the US unless you are saying Armilite sold them illegally to the mob who sold them to the IRA. Other than overpriced sporting arms, the UK does not make anything worth stealing.

[iverglas]

61. I absolutely cannot understand what you are on about

If it's what I think: the firearms in question were SOLD BY A LICENSED FIREARMS DEALER in Brooklyn, NY -- not "the Mob" -- to someone in the US, who then arranged for their transportation into the hands of the IRA.

What you can possibly mean by "stolen from the US" I just have not the foggiest idea.

Why can't you just read the material I posted and not make up silliness?

[eallen]

35. Registration would not change that one iota.

The law doesn't currently make me responsible for a murder committed by a gun I have sold to someone else. Or that has been stolen from me.

Mandatory registration by itself would not change that.

Now, if what is being proposed is some kind of law that pushes legal liability in such directions, then don't say "registration," say what you mean.

It's not clear that any of that would change the murder rate. Do you have any reason for thinking so?

:hippie:

[iverglas]

38. now think hard

Now, if what is being proposed is some kind of law that pushes legal liability in such directions, then don't say "registration," say what you mean.

How about "legal liability" for the CRIMINAL OFFENCE of engaging in an unregistered firearms transfer?

Fucking duh.


t's not clear that any of that would change the murder rate. Do you have any reason for thinking so?

This pretend obsession with murders again.

Never mind robberies committed with firearms, drug trafficking facilitated by firearms, communities terrorized by gangs with firearms, women intimidated by partners with firearms ...

Check out the rate at which robbery results in death in the US vs. Canada. Now pretend that doesn't have something to do with the fact that your average mugger in Canada couldn't get hold of a handgun to save their live, vs. the average mugger in the US being able to pick one up on any streetcorner.

C'mon now. Tell me something really important about drownings.

[SteveM]

41. "...guy owners [holding] onto your weaponry...?" Don't let that get out!

Normally, I don't give a rip about someone's spelling/typos (mine's bad enough), but that was just too much.:D

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gejohnston]

27. can't find the post that inspired me,

might have been deleted, but it earns a rec for absurdity.

[gejohnston]

29. The real reason they came

nimm mich auf Schützenfest

[Tuesday Afternoon]

30. this is some of the funniest shit I have ever read on DU. I love this thread

it is teh awesome.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[SteveM]

39. Well, the controller/banners have moved from Westerns to Sci-Fi.

[Kennah]

47. I'm waiting for them to move into movie versions of Broadway shows

[rl6214]

44. Unrecced for probably the most senseless post I've ever seen

here on DU and for blog flogging.

[ileus]

59. Who cares about the aliens opinion since they're not American citizens.