Rural Georgia Cop Shoots Unarmed Man

[mikeb302000]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-08-19-georgia-officer-shooting_n.htm">USA Today reports

In the recording, officer Jeffrey Deal jumps out of his patrol car and runs toward Melvin Williams, who has gotten out of his vehicle. The two begin fighting. Williams punches the officer in the head and takes a couple of steps toward Deal, who draws his gun and fires, killing the unarmed Williams.

The article explains that the officer had missed his last mandatory yearly training on the use of deadly force. In such a case he should have been placed on administrtive leave and deprived of his powers of arrest.

I don't know if that really enters into it, as one of his supporters said, he still has the right to self-defense.

My question is about the fact that he "jumps out of his patrol car and runs toward Melvin Williams." Is that normal behavior? Up till that point, it seems like Williams was only guilty of violating the unwritten protocol about not exiting the vehicle. Everyone knows this one and that the punishment can me summary execution.

Perhaps Williams was the one protecting himself from a raging and out-of-control police officer. And, of course, the guy with the gun killed the unarmed guy.

What's your opinion? This is quite different than http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2011/08/why-cops-are-trigger-happy.html">the other Georgia incident we posted today, don't you think?

http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/">(cross posted at Mikeb302000)

Please leave a comment.

[gejohnston]

1. It went wrong from the beginning

Easiest way to scare the shit out of cop is to get out of the car. The cop did a lousy job of de escalating from there. Did the cop have a taser, stick or mace? They do tend to be taser happy. Ultimately the jury is going to decide what they will based mostly off of the body language and what is said on the dash cam.

Other than that, I have to check out the redneck olympics sometime. It sounds fun.

[Kennah]

2. Unrec for being a RW budget cutting issue, not a gun issue

[TheCowsCameHome]

5. DUzy.

:thumbsup:

[mikeb302000]

10. a trigger-happy cop story

is not a gun issue for you? A cop shooting an unarmed man is not a gun story for you?

[Flyboy_451]

17. There is nothing in the article that indicates your view is even close to correct...

Williams was no stranger to law enforcement. He served a few stints in prison in the 1990s on cocaine and shoplifting charges and was sentenced to more than eight years in 1999 for a robbery. He was released in March 2008.

Since the dashcam video was not shown, (or did I miss a link somewhere in the story?) we have no idea what is on it, but it is very likely that the officer at least called in the plates on the car. If the car was registered to Williams, the fact that he was a known felon would have been reported to the officer at that time. How would you expect an officer to react when a person with a known record acts in a way that they should know will cause an increase in the tension of a situation? Even if officer Deal was not aware of the record of Mr. Williams, it is still common knowledge that the best course of action is to remain in your car until instructed otherwise.

"Shooting him in the stomach should have been the last resort. But it was the first thing he did," said Williams' mother, Lena. "And that tells you he hadn't been trained."

This from someone that was not present, has a bias interest in the case and likely no training, knowledge or firsthand experience in law enforcement or violent encounters. The escalation of force began the moment that Deal turned on his lights. Further escalation likely included verbal commands and then pursuit on foot from the what little detail was provided. It appears that Williams then resisted in some manner and struck officer Deal. At the point that this occurs the ante has just been upped a huge amount. The escalation of force took another step when Deal drew his weapon. It is not clear if verbal commands were issued or not, but even if not, the presentation of a sidearm carries a pretty universal command to cease and desist any hostile actions. Any assault of a law enforcement officer is a potentially deadly situation. Decisions are made in a split second and then hundreds, if not thousands, will pass judgment with the luxury of retrospect. Monday morning quaterbacking at its best!

To be clear, I am not saying that officer Deal acted appropriately, but I see no indication that he did not, based on the information in the article. When you are assaulted and then advanced upon by someone with a criminal record, I think it is very reasonable to assume that they wish to do you further harm. Keep in mind, that while Williams was not armed, this is not a requisite for armed response by the officer.

Fights of any type are a very dynamic and fluid situation. To say that Williams posed little or no threat is so far from accurate that it is laughable. As for the lack of current training, this seems to be a matter to be addressed by the city and state, and likely plays a small part, if any, in the event. Missing a single annual training event is not likely to result in a large difference in how a situation is handled. Law enforcement work is in itself a constant training environment, every day, every shift.

Everyone loves to hate the cops. Be my guest. I would also encourage anyone to see if your local department has a ride along program and take advantage of it, if they do. See what it is that a typical shift is like. See the situations firsthand, and how quickly they change and develop. It may change your view of what we do every day.

JW

[rrneck]

3. From the article at the link

State investigators are looking into the shooting a second time and the district attorney said he will launch a grand jury investigation next month.

[diveguy]

4. Crap, i cant read the link at work

But, i think i remember this one from a couple years ago. if i am not mistaken, the guy ran from the cop. when he finally stopped the car, he got out to run or fight and then was shot. The grand jury then decided the cop acted within the law. IO don't know how the training thing will play out though

[ileus]

6. I don't recommend punching cops...

[Logical]

7. But they have no problem punching you!

[mikeb302000]

11. of course not

but that doesn't make it right for cops to kill unarmed assailants. Rarely would that be justified, yet most are ruled that way.

[gravity556]

18. Again, you should read and understand the articles you pontificate on

prior to spamming the board trying to generate hits on your blog.

Dead guy punched cop twice in the head (can be considered lethal force) as well as, according to the cop, attempting to grab the cop's gun. Cops don't fuck around like that-they can't afford to let themselves be knocked out, lest the bad guy get their gun and finish them off while they're out. And any attempt to grab a cop's gun is quite possibly going to end up with you being shot.

Same thing with an open carrier, by the way. Trying to grab an open carrier's gun is a fantastic way to end up pepper sprayed, stabbed and/or shot. The reason is that if you take my gun, you've already demonstrated ill intent-there's no good reason for some random gomer to put his greasy dick beaters on my pistol, other than to take it and try to shoot me with it, or to steal it. Since waiting to see if you're going to shoot me with it isn't a viable option (for me, anyway. you might be willing to take a bullet to find out what his intent is), so if I can get to my pepper spray, that's what gets used. Though it's much more likely that I will find my knife first, then my target is the inside of the assailant's forearm-tough to keep a grip on something when all the tendons for your hand have been severed at your wrist.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SteveM]

9. ...we have eggs with spam, sausage with spam, spam with spam...

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mikeb302000]

13. the discussion was about cops shooting

unarmed people. Yet, you say nothing to see here. Your smug remark is total bullshit. You could participate in the discussion if you liked, but because you hate my POV, you shoot silly and impotent insults.

[gejohnston]

14. it is a

excessive force or police procedure issue. The forum is about civilian gun ownership. Important thing to remember, what you see in the paper and what the jury sees are often two different things. There are important facts that each do not see.

[jeepnstein]

15. I've been trained...

that if I feel I'm going down in a fight, as in I'm about to be rendered unconscious or defenseless, then I shoot to stop the threat. Cops aren't allowed to lose.

[Atypical Liberal]

16. Light on details.

The article was light on details, but it sounds to me like the person pulled over started the violence by punching the officer. He also said the person pulled over tried to take his gun.

So, he got shot.