Texas: Number of black women issued concealed carry gun permits rising

[SteveM]

I guess it's a style trend in MSM, but here's another case of a reporter heading for the range. Austin (TX) American-Statesman staff reporter Joshunda Sanders recently trained for her concealed-carry permit. But unlike similar stories in the press, her motivations seem to go beyond curiosity and the hot topic of guns. Some excerpts:

"My first encounter with a gun was when I was 6 years old. It was December 1984, and as my mother and I walked across a bridge from Harlem to the Bronx in New York City, two men came up behind... One of them put a gun to my head and threatened to kill me if she didn't turn over the coat."

Elsewhere...

"In addition to the pressures of learning how to be a reporter, learning Texas and being far from home, I was warned in the newsroom about active clusters of Ku Klux Klan activity. It had only been a few years since James Byrd Jr., a black man, had been beaten by white men and dragged to his death in nearby Jasper."

Sanders dutifully reports the gun-control side: "But since the 1980s, professors across the country have argued that the media and gun industry have enlarged the scenario of unmarried women fearing for their safety in urban environments earning their licenses for protection against violent crime", then reveals something beyond self: "But my fear is grounded not just in my personal history, but in a collective one." She then cites facts very familiar to 2A defenders in this forum, but not to her:

(1) MLK's 1956 application for a firearm (rejected), and his reliance on armed guards at his home; and
(2) The gang-rape of Recy Taylor in 1944 (Rosa Parks was the NAACP's investigator.

Sanders: "...as a homeowner who lives in the South and aspires to travel unfettered to places where I might be viewed more as a target than a benevolent visitor, earning a concealed handgun license seemed the best way to quell my personal fear."

Elsewhere, Sanders reports data from the Texas Department of Public Safety and the U.S. Census Bureau, which shows a marked increase in numbers, from 2001 to 2010, both real and by percent, of black women issued concealed-carry licenses when compared with all women who were issued such. Also noted is an increase in the percentage of all women issued licenses when compared with men: 17.7% in 2001; 21.9% in 2010.

http://www.statesman.com/life/in-defense-of-women-and-guns-1768375.html

I commend this article to all DUers, esp. those who do not visit the Guns Forum often.

[iverglas]

1. "the best way to quell my personal fear."

Not saying much there about the utility of it, is she?

If somebody walked up behind her today and put a gun to her daughter's head and threatened to shoot her if she didn't turn over her coat, I wonder what she'd do?

[SteveM]

2. Since she is no longer 6 yrs. old, she might have some situational awareness, no?

[iverglas]

5. gordon bennett, do you read what you post?

In the tale told from times past, the individual in question was a child. She was walking with her mother, an adult. The robbers put a gun to the child's head and demanded the mother's coat.

What does situational awareness do for her? Make her pull out her gun every time somebody passes her on the street? What's she going to do with it if somebody already has a gun to her kid's head? Aim her gun first at everybody who comes within touching distance?

"Da thug" who deserves to die with gun to her kid's head, her gun in her pants or her fanny pack or her purse or wherever it is, or even in her hand. What to do? What would King Solomon say in that situation? I wonder.

[Riftaxe]

23. Why does an armed woman make you so nervous?

Perhaps you need to reexamine some of your issues.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

30. Why are you so confident that your viewpoint is the only one that constitutes civil discourse

There is a great deal of civil discourse, you just continuously disqualify yourself from it.

[iverglas]

37. because I know, as a matter of definition,

that telling falsehoods about one's interlocutor and impugning one's interlocutor's mental status is NOT civil discourse.

Just as you do.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

47. And yet that seems to be mostly what your posts consist of

PKB

[PavePusher]

58. And yet, you do so much of it....

Sigh.

[iverglas]

36. so let's just say it again, sweetie

Why are you making a false statement about me?

Perhaps you need to examine your integrity.


Because, friends, if this one can come here and falsely STATE that an armed woman makes me nervous, and then pig-ignorantly STATE that I "have issues", I will say whatever I fucking well want.

[Atypical Liberal]

49. Maybe it highlights personal failing.

It could be that some people are jealous or angry by people who successfully defend themselves from harm or have the ability to do so because they are afraid that they cannot or would not be able to do the same.

[iverglas]

55. and it could be that some people

are just vile.

Yeah, I think that's it.

[GKirk]

3. Ninja kick the gun out of his hand...

then shoot him in the hand and hold him for police. Duh!

[iverglas]

6. I knew there was a right answer

An F for me on that one! ;)

[ileus]

4. Hopefully she'd fight the way she trains....refuse to be a victim.

[iverglas]

7. got an answer?

Didn't think so. But thanks for the demonstration!

[ileus]

16. fight the way she trains is the answer.

If she trains to respond in a manor to remove/stop the threat then do it. If she doesn't train to respond then hand it over and become a victim.

[iverglas]

20. didn't think you had an answer

Confirmation noted.

[ileus]

25. I didn't say it you did...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

31. That you do not recognize a answer does not mean it is not legitimate

[iverglas]

38. what colour is orange?

True or false?

[ileus]

43. DATD know it love it.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

46. Snork

[ileus]

51. What color is a Snork? Blue or Beaver ?

[Starboard Tack]

29. Coats are more valuable than kids. To the manor born.

[iverglas]

39. pretty much the only way to interpret that answer, eh?

[Euromutt]

100. To the two robbers in question, yes

Let's be honest about what's more important to whom here.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iverglas]

53. so let's start over

with my absolutely non-rule breaking attempt to get an answer to my question:

If somebody walked up behind her today and put a gun to her daughter's head and threatened to shoot her if she didn't turn over her coat, I wonder what she'd do?

We have one entry here:

Hopefully she'd fight the way she trains....refuse to be a victim.

So we're stil waiting.

[gravity556]

103. Well, depending on how much the family trained..

the 6 year old could have dropped to her knees while sticking her arms up, leaving mom a clear shot through the bad guy's heart, lungs and liver. Sure, she'd have to patch and clean the coat, but better a patched coat for a child than NO coat for a child.

[iverglas]

104. it was the mother's coat

starting over in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...

[spin]

9. You can create all sorts of scenarios where a concealed firearm might not be the best solution ...

to a problem.

In the one you mention, it would be best for the woman to turn her coat over. In all probability, the mugger will not kill or seriously injure the daughter. You can replace a coat, but you can't replace your daughter's life.

However, let's suppose that the woman is attacked by a much larger assailant who plans to rape and possibly kill her. She may well be able to stop the attack with her concealed firearm.

Much depends on the attitude of the mugger or attacker. If someone walks up to me, points his handgun at me and says, "Give me your wallet." I plan to appraise him and determine how stable he is. If I honestly feel that all he wants is my wallet, I will simply give it to him. I can replace my money, credit cards and driver's license. I can not replace my health or my life.

But I feel that he intends to shoot me even after I turn over my wallet, than I will attempt to defend myself with my concealed revolver. If I am going to end up in the hospital or six feet under even if I fully cooperate, I have little to lose by fighting back.

I learned this lesson many years ago from my martial arts instructor who was talking about when to use the self defense skills he taught. That was before 1987 when "shall issue" concealed carry was legalized in Florida. He was not discussing when to use a concealed firearm, but I feel that today he would give a person with a carry permit the same advice he gave to his jujitsu students.

You fight only when it is absolutely necessary and when there is no other choice.

[rl6214]

8. But

Women don't buy guns and especially black woman.

[spin]

10. Times are a changin ...

I know several women with concealed carry permits and a lot who have a loaded handgun in their car.

It's always surprised me just how much women enjoy shooting a handgun after they overcome their initial fear. The are often easier to train than guys as they don't believe they already know how to shoot a handgun because of all the experience they got watching movies and playing video games.

[iverglas]

12. where do you find this weird shit you say?

[rl6214]

14. Why right here on this forum

dontcha know. It's only angry old white guys that buy guns. Teabaggers, and we know there aren't any women or especially black women that are teabaggers.

[iverglas]

15. that's okay, I already knew you weren't making any sense

But thanks for the clarification of that fact.

[rl6214]

34. Oh come on now Iverglas, you know exactly what I'm talking about

don't pretend you don't. Many here, and one in particular say it is just one big NRA/GOP plot, yup. And according to those same ones if it's just a big NRA/GOP plot (which is just all old white guys and country hicks) then we must all be old white guys and/or hicks.

See post 48 for additional verification.

[iverglas]

40. "it is just one big NRA/GOP plot"

Well, that's a little over-narrow and over-broad at the same time though, isn't it?

Not all Republicans are genuinely right-wing. And "NRA/GOP" doesn't cover the full length and breadth and depth of the right wing.

[ileus]

44. get someone to buy a gun, next thing you know they'll be teabaggers.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

32. There are those who claim that ownership and carrying of firearms is a white male right wing thing

Clearly it is not and more women, minorities, and even progressives are doing it.

[iverglas]

41. I suppose there are; never met any myself ...

Then there are those who assert that gun militancy is but one aspect of the right-wing battle to disarm vulnerable individuals and groups -- of their voice, of their economic and personal security, of their right to equal and equitable treatment ... of their membership in their society, essentially.

Yeah, that's it.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

45. snork

[ileus]

52. super extra snork

[Spoonman]

70. Then again,

you don't live "down here".

The likelihood of you meeting an assertive and self reliant women is significantly reduced by living in a system that deprives a woman (all individuals actually) the right to self preservation.

Your lack of "personal knowledge" of our culture and legal system is extremely evident in most of your replies.

[iverglas]

84. you guys are just such a gas

The obvious underlying assumption in the posts from the crowd in general is that since you all are wholly ignorant of the world outside your garden gate, everyone in the rest of the world must be equally ignorant. It's unfortunate that you can't see that this isn't so ... if you could, well, it would mean you all weren't ignorant of the outside world, so we'd have a paradox ...

We on this side of the fence often find you all amusing in your childish naiveté. Well, we would, except for the unspeakable damage it so often results in on this side of the fence. But that just doesn't mean that nobody else knows anything about you.

There just isn't another "culture" in the world that wears its ignorance of anything but itself as a badge of pride, or remains so resolute in its resolve not to learn about anything beyond the fence.

I am sure there are aspects of your cultures I am unfamilar with. Of course, I'll assume you are going by assumption when you refer to my lack of "personal knowledge" on that score, and are ignorant of what personal knowledge I do in fact have. One of my favourite memories is being shown around Plano by the recent university graduate brother (who had received his education courtesy of his military service) of the man I was living with in Canada, whose wedding we were attending, and how he struggled to regain his composure when he announced that we were entering "nnnnnnnBlacktown". And then there was the time I was so impressed that somebody in Portland (the Maine one) had managed to come up with a real black person to be one of the students who spoke at the Memorial Day ceremony. I used to stay at a little dumpy hotel there and kind of got to know the two older women who managed the place. Earlier on that particular weekend I got on the elevator wearing the brooch I had picked up the day before at an antique/junk shop in New Hampshire; it said:
Remember Harbor
She was the first person to get it, and she said, you know, not enough people do remember. Heh, then there was the Remembrance Day that I and that Texan were in Flagler Beach for the service, which we were standing and watching when a young woman with a baby stroller came up and asked my partner what the old guys with the guns were doing. I explained ... her culture ... for her. Shall I tell you about Death Valley at sunset/moonrise? Driving across Lake Pontchartrain in the tail end of a hurricane? Picking up hitchhikers up and down the highways east of the Mississippi, through Tennessee and Kentucky and the Carolinas and Alabama? Camping at Town Park in Austin, and visiting people living in a trailer in the middle of the Texas desert? The once-was-a-trailer I delivered the older woman I picked up hitchhiking to on a back road in rural Maine? You familiar with rural Maine? I'll bet you haven't even read Carolyn Chute. Spent much time in Moline, Illinois? St Clair Shores, Detroit? Stayed with friends and family in DC, Baltimore, Raleigh, Dearborn? Vacationed on the eastern shore of Lake Michigan? in the Florida Keys? Boston? NYC? Had lunch at the best fried chicken place in Atlanta? Got your car repaired in a small town in Ohio? Had your alternator die at a truck stop in Missouri? How much do you know about your cultures, really? More than me, I will not dispute that.

But I'm not nearly so unfamiliar with your legal system as virtually everyone here is with any legal system at all. Crap almighty, where the hell do you think you got your legal system??

As for assertive and self-reliant women ... you had a woman president yet? Or even a wife of a president who didn't find it necessary to abandon her name, identity and career? My party's caucus in the House of Commons is 41% women at present; the previous two party leaders were women, and with the death this week of our current leader, the next one may be. How's yours doing? Still got those laws interfering in women's access to abortion? I don't. We could go on, if you feel up to it. Or I could just laugh.

[ileus]

18. It's rude, impolite, and uncivilized to own firearms...not very progressive of her.

[iverglas]

13. ah, the propaganda is working

From the article:

Adam Winkler, author of the forthcoming book, "Gunfight: The Battle Over The Right to Bear Arms in America," traced the birth of the modern gun rights movement to the Black Panthers in the September issue of The Atlantic.

And yet we all know, and every honest person acknowledges, that the modern "gun rights" movement was a backlash to the civil rights movement.

And here we have the true ugliness of the gun militant agenda:

Among the most jarring stories of black women attacked in the South, sometimes by police officers, was the story of Recy Taylor, a 24-year-old mother and sharecropper who in 1944, as she walked home after attending church at the Rock Hill Holiness Church in Abbeville, Ala., was snatched from the street by seven white men armed with knives and shotguns. They raped her and left her for dead. It was Rosa Parks, the president of the local NAACP branch office, who was sent to investigate Taylor's case.

To persuade women that carrying a pistol will protect them from seven men armed with knives and shotguns. Or even that events like this, born out of lawlessness and racism 65 years ago, occur in the 21st century ... and thus women need to buy and carry and propagandize for guns. Sad and sick.



html fixed

[SteveM]

19. Misconceptions abound:

"And yet we all know, and every honest person acknowledges, that the modern "gun rights" movement was a backlash to the civil rights movement."

Y'got it bassackwards. The "gun rights" (your term) movement was in response to gun-controllers and their allies in Congress trying to restrict the RKBA. Even the early ones owned up to that:

"Investigative reporter Robert Sherrill, himself no lover of guns, concluded in his book The Saturday Night Special that the object of the Gun Control Act of 1968 was black control rather than gun control. According to Sherrill, Congress was so panicked by the ghetto riots of 1967 and 1968 that it passed the act to "shut off weapons access to blacks, and since they (Congress) probably associated cheap guns with ghetto blacks and thought cheapness was peculiarly the characteristic of imported military surplus and the mail-order traffic, they decided to cut off these sources while leaving over-the-counter purchases open to the affluent."

"Affluent." I wonder who that would be?

And of course your controller/ally Ronald Reagan was moved to hand down his control laws in Cali. Somethin' to do with the Black Panthers, I believe. Do you really think the expansion of 2A rights would have gotten as far as it has if not for the splendid and most excellent actions of the gun-controller/prohibitionist? Who even argues that point?

"To persuade women that carrying a pistol will protect them from seven men armed with knives and shotguns. Or even that events like this, born out of lawlessness and racism 65 years ago, occur in the 21st century ... and thus women need to buy and carry and propagandize for guns. Sad and sick."

Sorry, but that sentence is dog food, as you say. Who is persuading? Sounds like she got all the "persuasion" she needed from her experiences, and from her own research (funny how woman's emancipation works). And the Jasper, TX murder was in 1998, just 13 years ago. So, Ms. Sanders is the "sad and sick" enemy, here?

NOTE: even Hoyt sees Sanders' actions as justified.

[iverglas]

21. like I said

You know it, I know it, anybody with a clue about modern US history and politics knows it.

The modern "gun rights" movement (and no, it isn't my term, that's why it's in quotation marks) arose out of the backlash to the civil rights movement of the 60s.

We all know it. Some of us just won't admit it in public. And no individual's deluded belief to the contrary is really of any weight or authority.

[SteveM]

22. And repeating your tired line, over & over, doesn't make it true. nt

[iverglas]

26. snork

[SteveM]

27. krons

;)

[rl6214]

35. Having breathing problems?

I hope it's not in any way related to your eye problems.;-)

[ProgressiveProfessor]

33. It is still wrong

The gun control movement is the one that is racist and classist in its roots.

[friendly_iconoclast]

28. Sanders is "somebody who has decided to let the racist right wing determine her actions"

From post #12 above.

It doesn't look like it's the "racist right wing" that's insulting Sanders' intelligence here.
"Someone who will defend to the death your right to agree with them", indeed.

[Remmah2]

42. You can't rape a .38.

Think of women with guns as the ultimate pro-choice empowerment. Equality.

Many of the women I shoot with are far better shooters than I. My daughter is captain of her high school rifle team, the coach is a woman and the assistant coach is a woman. Team is 45% young ladies. Many of the 45% are honors students as well. The coach (teacher)has a masters in history and english and working on her doctorates in education. A better trend yet is that when I attend matches, the other rifle teams field 35%-60% women on their teams as well.

Women with a healthy education and respect for firearms. BTW, some of those women are minorities as well.

[iverglas]

48. you can't get the patriarchy out of gun mlitancy

Has anyone ever suggested that sports shooting is not a perfectly enjoyable, appropriate leisure activity?

Not moi.

Nobody with the power of reason has ever tried to connect it to combatting sexual violence against women, either.

But some people just can't resist dragging "rape! rape! rape!" into their discourse. The same people who try to ride the coattails of oppressed racial minorities are trying to hide behind the skirts of victimized women. No surprise there.

We might put it down to that weird patriarchy gene that seems to be dominant in a certain part of the North American continent.

www.michaeladams.ca/articles/pdf/here_father.pdf

It's all right there.

HERE, FATHER DOESN’T KNOW BEST

What makes us different: patriarchal attitudes are flourishing south of the
border, but Canadians are showing a marked divergence of opinion, says
pollster MICHAEL ADAMS

Wednesday, July 4, 2001

... This time <2006>, 48 per cent of Americans said the father of the family must be master in his own home; 51 per cent disagreed and 1 per cent had no opinion.

... On this issue there’s a consensus across Canada. Regional differences are barely outside the margin of statistical error: Quebec, at 15 per cent, is least likely to think father should be master, followed by British Columbia (17 per cent), Ontario and Atlantic Canada (18 per cent) and Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta, all at 21 per cent.

Some societies take action to combat sexual violence against women. Others tell them to go buy guns, for a bunch of reasons having precisely bugger all to do with women's safety.

The divide is pretty clear.

[Remmah2]

54. Logic Fail

nuff said.

[SteveM]

59. So a "patriarch" commands his woman to get a gun? Real smart...

That reminds me of the notorious late 19th Century North Florida outlaw Harmon Murray, who on a midnight trek through a swamp, commanded an unwilling teenager to get his shotgun and help him shoot up the town of Archer. The kid did; a mile later, the kid shot up Murray.

[iverglas]

61. so you don't have a fucking clue? not smart at all ...

Lord knows where you pull your drivel from, or why you post it in "reply" to my comments ...

[SteveM]

66. Then re-phrase whatever point you are making...

"Others them to go buy guns, for a bunch of reasons having precisely bugger all to do with women's safety."

If a society is so damned patriarchal, so dominant, abusive, and in wait of end-time disaster, why would its male members command "their" women to get guns? Lock yourself in a room, put on handcuffs, get ye to a convent -- as hideous as those prospects are, would suggest a kind of logical response, given the crappy world you illustrate. But tell them to get guns???

"I'm on top of the world!!"

BAR-ROOOOM!

[iverglas]

74. why would you invent dumb shit and pretend I said it?

If a society is so damned patriarchal, so dominant, abusive, and in wait of end-time disaster, why would its male members command "their" women to get guns?

I give up; why would they? Who said they did?

Its white, male members are busy URGING African-Americans to get guns, too. And disseminating the demagoguery that is designed to persuade them to do so.

Because it is in the right wing's interest to persuade people whose interests they don't give a shit about to believe that the right wing has their interests at heart.

That way, they're just a whole lot less likely to notice what interests the right wing really does have at heart, and maybe do something to obstruct its agenda and act in their own interests, which are not the right wing's interests at all.

Duh.

[SteveM]

79. The folks at Stono River didn't get your contrived message...

"Its white, male members are busy URGING African-Americans to get guns, too...

Because it is in the right wing's interest to persuade people whose interests they don't give a shit about to believe that the right wing has their interests at heart."

Well I've heard of the "magic-gun force field" which causes people's eyes to glaze over at the Morlocks' sirens, and zombie-walk toward the nearest Underground, but this takes take the cake.

Your stuff:

Oppressed people told by oppressors to get a gun.
Oppressed people now believe oppressor is good because they got a gun.
Oppressor stops noticing what oppressor is doing.

Yeah, right....

"On September 9, 1739, early on a Sunday morning, a group of around 20 slaves rendezvoused at a spot near the Stono River. They had pre-planned their rebellion for this day. Stopping first at a firearms shop, they killed the owner and supplied themselves with guns."

http://afroamhistory.about.com/od/slavery/a/stono.htm

[SteveM]

83. Old trick, Iverglas. This has been answered previously. nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

86. He is trying to correct you comments and bring rationality and enlightenment to the discourse

Your comments add little to nothing of any of that.

[SteveM]

98. And what of the shoe on the bass near Salem? nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

105. Clearly they are so last season

[SteveM]

118. Oooo, don't say that (U. of Florida, '70)

[friendly_iconoclast]

65. Associational fallacy? Pretty thin gruel n/t

[TPaine7]

109. Of course the father must be the master in his own home...

and the mother must be the mistress.

What exactly is the problem with that?

The only alternative I see is little Timmy being the master and little Sally being the mistress. That scenario is the real problem, as demonstrated in too many homes.

Do Canadians believe that the father should be the mistress in his own home and the mother the master? Are they unfamiliar with the genders associated with these terms? Do they think masculine and feminine roles are wrong? Or do they think that the children should govern the home?

And what does this have to do with "sexual violence against women"? It would seem that the father being master (and the mother being mistress) in the home has--to borrow a vulgar term from a suitable person--"precisely bugger all to do with women's safety."

[iverglas]

113. it's things like this

that demonstrate the truly unfounded high regard in which you hold yourself and your, uh, thoughts.

But as long as you find yourself amusing ... !

[TPaine7]

116. How do you think Canadians would have reacted to a question about a woman being mistress?

Would they reflexively condemn power in the hands of a woman?

Can a man legitimately hold power IN HIS OWN HOUSE if he's a single parent, or is that necessarily evil too?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

69. "every honest person acknowledges" this is a rhetorical ruse to shame people into not rebutting

lest the be automatically branded dishonest.

I have yet to gun rights advocates claim minorities should not be allowed to own guns or to use the Black Panthers as a scare tactic against gun ownership. On the contrary, because when I opened my eyes about gun control, gun rights advocates argue that gun control is a tool for racists oppressing minorities.

Worse still, you don't even have a source for your assertion, you just make it. How does this even work in your universe?

[iverglas]

75. new around here?

Worse still, you don't even have a source for your assertion, you just make it. How does this even work in your universe?

How does butting into a conversation that has been going on for ten years and making unsubstantiated and false accusations work for you in the real world?

If you've got google, you can find what you need to earn yourself a reply.

If you'd even asked a civil question, you might have got one.


On the contrary, because when I opened my eyes about gun control, gun rights advocates argue that gun control is a tool for racists oppressing minorities.

They certainly do, don't they? I suppose your assertion of that fact was meant to amount to some kind of proof of something ... other than what gun militants say when you opened your eyes.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

76. I did google "racism gun control" and the results refute your assertion

And I do not need your permission or invitation to join a conversation on a public forum.

Apparently "freedom" is a concept you are unfamiliar with in numerous regards.

[iverglas]

77. hahahahahahaha

I did google "racism gun control" and the results refute your assertion

Yes, the right wing does squat very effectively on the cyberworld, doesn't it?

You have to be clever to fool them.

Try googling

George P Mahoney
"your home is your castle"
Senator Tydings
Spiro T Agnew

in various combinations, with the word "gun". You might learn a little true history.

And I do not need your permission or invitation to join a conversation on a public forum.

Go tell it to someone who said you did.

You see? There you go again.

Apparently "freedom" is a concept you are unfamiliar with in numerous regards.

Obviously mummy and daddy failed to teach you basic manners.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

87. There you go again

Making friends and adding to the civil discourse whenever you post

:sarcasm:

[Tuesday Afternoon]

108. .

the second part of the epiphany. please disregard. sorry

[Tejas]

111. I've sold guns to single black females,

the reality of their day to day lives trumps your fantasies.

[iverglas]

114. tortoises? porpoises? horses?

They all come in black, and in female, and I don't think they're permitted to marry, even same-species. And I suppose there's nothing in that Bill of Rights to allow the guv'mint to infringe their right to tote guns.

How am I to know which species you're talking about??

[ProgressiveProfessor]

119. Your word dancing does nothing but show you true colors

You are not here for discourse, you are here to disrupt any semblance of meaningful dialog. The context was quite clear. Your comment intentionally obtuse and disruptive.

[ileus]

17. The best part of this story is she's exercising the most valuable of civil rights.

You have to remain alive before any other right matters. The second at least give her and all of us an important opportunity to remain being.

[Atypical Liberal]

50. Hooray for personal empowerment! n/t

[Glassunion]

56. Not in TX, however my wife has done her part to add to the statistic.

[iverglas]

57. funny how none of these gun-totin' gals

ever comes to visit the Guns forum, isn't it?

[Glassunion]

60. She does not come to DU at all.

So what?

[iverglas]

62. yes ... and ... ?

Maybe she and all the other womenfolks we hear about here hang out at the classier gun militant places on the internet ...

[Glassunion]

63. Again... Who cares?

Does one's choice in where they hang out in an internet forum speak of anything about public policy, self defense or gun ownership? Personally I would think not.

[iverglas]

64. well that's an interesting question

Does one's choice in where they hang out in an internet forum speak of anything about public policy, self defense or gun ownership? Personally I would think not.

Huh.

Does your wife's personal relationship with guns speak of anything about public policy, self-defence or gun ownership?

Since the "self-defence" and "gun ownership" in question in the forum guidelines really refers to issues associated with those things, and not any individual's choice of what brand of firearm to acquire and where to take it out for a walk: personally, I would think not.

If someone does want to tell their own tales of "self-defence" in support of some argument, I'd suggest they do it. I can't see why anybody would be particularly interested in anybody else's unverifiable and untestable assertions/anecdotes about their wife's personal relationship with firearms. In a nutshell, they are boring and pointless. They're at about the same level as fanny pack colours.

Nonetheless, the fact that it's always the wife's husband and never the wife telling these tales does beyond question tell a tale in itself.

[friendly_iconoclast]

67. It might have something to do with the venomous reaction towards women that buy guns...

...that issues from certain ideologues here. One has even gone so far as to proclaim that others do their thinking for them.

[iverglas]

72. or maybe most women just have less taste

for the ugly misrepresentations spewed by gun militants.

[Scout]

78. so, what, women who have the balls to buy a gun, are afraid of words on their monitor?

is that what you're saying?

:rofl:

[SteveM]

80. Thanks, Scout. Case in point! nt

[Scout]

81. so you are saying that women will/won't buy a gun because some other

woman might say mean things about her on the internet?

:rofl:

[SteveM]

82. Nope. You said that.

So, what do you have against women buying guns? No one is forcing them.

[iverglas]

85. pretty funny

So, what do you have against women buying guns?

You guys crack jokes just by breathing pretty much, don't you?

[SteveM]

90. I was asking Scout, but you can answer if you want. nt

[Scout]

88. in your world, what do these words mean? they are the post i was replying to

It might have something to do with the venomous reaction towards women that buy guns...

Edited on Wed Aug-24-11 02:08 PM by friendly_iconoclast
...that issues from certain ideologues here. One has even gone so far as to proclaim that others do their thinking for them.

if this does not mean that women do/don't buy a gun because they are afraid of what strangers will post on the internet, what does it mean? it refers specifically to "here" (the internet).

[SteveM]

89. To sum up: You are hostile to women who "buy" a gun. As I was saying. nt

[Scout]

91. still can't answer the question huh?

i guess i must be hostile to myself then, since i bought a shotgun!

answer the question that was posed to you in post 88.

:rofl:

what do the words mean in the post i was replying to? can't answer a simple question can you? i knew that you couldn't.

[SteveM]

92. I re-read. Your "question" doesn't even make sense, based on a statement.

If you would like, you can re-phrase your question, direct it toward me, and I will answer.

:shrug:

[Scout]

94. i DID direct my question to you, in my post 88 .... step by step....

start reading the subthread at post 56... discussing who seems to post what in this forum, and why...

follow along down to post 64 where iverglas says (emphasis mine):

If someone does want to tell their own tales of "self-defence" in support of some argument, I'd suggest they do it. I can't see why anybody would be particularly interested in anybody else's unverifiable and untestable assertions/anecdotes about their wife's personal relationship with firearms. In a nutshell, they are boring and pointless. They're at about the same level as fanny pack colours.

Nonetheless, the fact that it's always the wife's husband and never the wife telling these tales does beyond question tell a tale in itself.

got that so far?

then our friendly iconoclast responded with this in post 67 (emphasis mine).

It might have something to do with the venomous reaction towards women that buy guns...

Edited on Wed Aug-24-11 02:08 PM by friendly_iconoclast
...that issues from certain ideologues here. One has even gone so far as to proclaim that others do their thinking for them.

to which i responded with my post 78:

so, what, women who have the balls to buy a gun, are afraid of words on their monitor?

is that what you're saying?

i was asking friendly iconoclast what their post 67 meant. friendly is saying that women consider what strangers will/won't say about them on the internet if they buy a gun, no? if that is not what it means, what DOES it mean? YOU then answered my post to friendly with this:

Thanks, Scout. Case in point! nt

as if you had a point.

my question was asked, quite clearly in post 88 in reply to your post 82. i HAVE directed my question to you already. and you have not answered it.

[SteveM]

95. Since you cannot pose a question without all the attached material...

from you, Iverglas, Friendly, AND me, I will state my views on all of this stuff:

Some women do not post here (or elsewhere, for that matter) when they have guns (for whatever reason), because they may receive some kind of disrespectful attack by those who oppose women owning guns. Then you made some kind of curious male genitalia-referenced attack on the woman in question; hence, "Case in point!" Put another way, perhaps some women who own guns aren't interested in reading of your macho posturing in opposition to armed women.

I hope this is clearer than your hot-wired "question." ;)

[iverglas]

96. ooooh, Scout, your "macho posturing"

:rofl:

Somebody needs to learn that his mouse is his friend.

Do I owe a debt to you this time around?

:toast:

[SteveM]

99. Your celebrating SOMETHING out there. Have fun! nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

117. nailed it. --

this thread is a crystal clear example of the dynamics of this forum. thanks for this post SteveM.

[iverglas]

120. has anybody actually clicked on Scout's profile yet?

Ye gods and little fishies.

You, Tuesday Afternoon, might appreciate what I am getting at here ...

[Tuesday Afternoon]

121. not sure what you are getting at...this thread is pretty convoluted

I pulled up Scout's profile:

Member since 2001
Number of posts 7051
Avatar Image
Gender female
City Ann Arbor
State MI
Country United States
Member of DU Activist Corps Yes

she is a woman who is macho posturing . . .??

the irony of a woman -- macho posturing

:shrug:

is that what you are getting at?

[iverglas]

122. didn't see any macho posturing myself

I personally don't use the expression "have balls" for either sex; "guts" was good enough for me and still is, and I don't see any need for further vulgarity or stereotyping. I also don't use the expression "douche(bag)". But both are endemic here and in the real world, and nobody who is busily pretending away here would have found the expression the least bit problematic in any other context.

I think it's fairly obvious that I'm not the only woman being accused of being something else this week. ;)

[Tuesday Afternoon]

123. yes, I didn't see any either. have to admit it has been a weird week

in this forum. who woulda thunk it?

words . . .

I am OK with vulgar words being used in context when trying to make a point -- the shock value for additional emphasis.


also


I try not to be a grammar or spelling nazi because I think exchanging ideas and concepts
and understanding are more important than spelling and grammar.
That being said, the better the grammar and spelling, the easier the understanding.

as for why more "gun-toting" women don't post in here, I can only speak for myself.

I think a lot of this forum is just an exercise in futility.

[Scout]

93. I was asking friendly iconoclast, but you can answer if you want.... n/.t

[iverglas]

97. snork

[Glassunion]

68. Huh?

Huh
In other words... My wife's choice to not hang out here does nothing to prove your point.

Does your wife's personal relationship with guns speak of anything about public policy, self-defence or gun ownership?
By herself no. However, as one of many in a growing statistic as related to the OP. Yes.

If someone does want to tell their own tales of "self-defence" in support of some argument, I'd suggest they do it. I can't see why anybody would be particularly interested in anybody else's unverifiable and untestable assertions/anecdotes about their wife's personal relationship with firearms. In a nutshell, they are boring and pointless. They're at about the same level as fanny pack colours.

I can't see why anybody who thinks that they can't see why anybody would be particularly interested in anybody Else's unverifiable and untestable assertions/anecdotes about their wife's personal relationship with firearms. Because in a nutshell, they are boring and pointless; would bother to reply to such a post. Why not ignore it and move on?

[TPaine7]

71. And yet...

I can't see why anybody would be particularly interested in anybody else's unverifiable and untestable assertions/anecdotes about their wife's personal relationship with firearms.

And yet, I can name at least one person on this board who thinks that people are particularly interested in her unverifiable and untestable assertions/anecdote about her experiences in a self-defense situation not involving guns, as well as many other unverifiable and untestable assertions about her life and experiences.

Funny that.

[iverglas]

73. oh dear

If somebody wants to come in here and tell their own tales about their personal relationship with firearms ... well, the forum would be pretty empty without 'em, wouldn't it?

Sigh. That wasn't even a nice try, son.

[TPaine7]

106. LOL

Do you imagine that you haven't relayed the experiences of people you know on this board?

Really?

And I've asked you before, please don't call me "dear" or any other "endearing" terms. *shudders*

I am not Hitler. I am not Stalin. I am not Satan. I do not deserve such vulgarity and abuse.




PS. For future reference, I am not an SOB either.

[TPaine7]

110. I regret that PS, but it's too late to change it. My apologies to iverglas. n/t

[iverglas]

112. "Do you imagine that you haven't relayed the experiences of people you know on this board?"

Rather an oddly framed question ... but whatever.

I can think of two instances.

The experience of the man I was seeing when I worked in a small town, whose son had committed suicide with my friend's hunting rifle. This one I heard from many people in town and took to be true. But you're right, I wasn't there.

The experience of my client whose sister was killed by her husband with a handgun, a decade or so after that first incident. That one I heard on the radio as I was parking at my office. But no, I wasn't actually there either.

As far as other other people's experiences ... I dunno, things like studies of women's experiences with abusive husbands and their guns?

Oh yeah, I've mentioned the experience of the clerk at my local 7-11 who told me about somebody trying to hold him up with a penknife ...

If I'm missing something, remind me.

I'd mention that I haven't claimed to speak for any of those people, of course. Or to be relaying their thoughts or motives or wishes ...

[Upton]

101. Good for them..

I'm attracted to strong confident women...the kind that refuse to be a victim, are willing to stand up for themselves, and aren't crying "misogyny" at every turn..

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iverglas]

115. oops

I guess I'm not allowed to tout for eHarmony here.

:rofl:

[Tuesday Afternoon]

107. don't mind me

just had personal epiphany of the dynamics of this forum is all.