Man Shoots Neighbor Walking Dog

[mikeb302000]

http://newcity.patch.com/articles/police-motive-in-shooting-remains-a-mystery">The New City Patch reports

Recluse. Loner. Shut-in. Those were some of the descriptions police say they have found best describe 53-year-old Eric Goods of Valley Cottage, who is accused of attempted murder in the apparently unprovoked shooting Tuesday morning of a neighbor who was taking his dog out for an early-morning walk.

That's the whole story really. No one knows what could have provoked the incident. One neighbor is walking the dog early in the morning, the other neighbor comes up behind and shoots him four or five times, no reason.

I'd like to suggest something, I don't know if anyone else has thought of it. Mr. Goods was stark raving mad. His mental condition could have been easily identified even in the most cursory exam.

The pro-gun crowd love to ask, "what law could have prevented this particular crime?" Well, how about licensing of gun owners which would require criminal as well as mental health background checks. The license would have to be renewed periodically. Do you think Eric Goods would have passed? I don't.

Of course, given the way the NRA and the gun lobby have law enforcement hamstrung nowadays, this is what we're left with.

Clarkstown detectives were still checking records late Wednesday to determine whether Goods legally owned the gun used in the shooting.

Is that pathetic or what? What's your opinion?

http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/">(cross posted at Mikeb302000)

Please leave a comment.

[villager]

1. No opinion or reasoned debate from the proliferationists -- just their usual drive-by unrecs

n/t

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[SteveM]

47. Wel, Villager, that's the trouble with being first in line. Read on. nt

[petronius]

50. Did you actually jump in three minutes after the OP was posted to complain

that DUers weren't commenting on the topic, and then neglect to express any opinion on the topic yourself? :rofl:

[rl6214]

2. The NRA and gun lobby have the italian "law enforcement hamstrung"?

"Is that pathetic or what? What's your opinion?"

"Do you think Eric Goods would have passed? I don't."

You know absolutely nothing about Eric Goods so your opinion really doesn't matter.

Why don't you start posting about what's going on in italy because you don't know anything about what's going on here.

[MADem]

3. I'm flummoxed. The man does appear to be crazy as a bedbug.

His victim is lucky to be alive.

I hope the dog is ok.

[MyrnaLoy]

5. I think

we need to research every shooting story to find if the shooter was a concealed weapon permit holder, just as I did with the professor who killed a student. My guess is more and more permit holders are shooting people. Journalists don't ask law enforcement the question and permits. The NRA and law enforcement are afraid of the actual numbers. They would prove that crimes are committed by permit holders AND law enforcement is giving permits to unstable people. See this post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x454506

[RSillsbee]

23. What would you do w/ this information?

What would be the point of knowing how many shooters were permit holders? What is your end goal?

[spin]

45. You can research some state records ...

for example, Florida publishes a monthly report on concealed carry at http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.html

Since 1987 when "shall issue" concealed carry became law, Florida has issued a total of 2,031,106 concealed weapons permits of which 843,463 are still valid. Only 168 licenses have been revoked for a crime committed in which a firearm was utilized after the license was issued.

That does not mean that 168 people were shot during the commission of a crime as licenses can be revoked for many reasons. Unfortunately, the report does not list the crimes that were committed that led to the revocation. For example, you can lose your license for brandishing your firearm.

But whatever the reason that would mean that only 0.00827% of the total number of people who have been issued concealed weapons permits in Florida have misused their license in a criminal manner.

Now of course, if you dislike concealed carry in principle, you can find some tragic incidents where people were hurt or killed by a person with a Florida carry permit, and indeed there are a few. What you will ignore is the number of people who had concealed carry permits that were able to save themselves from serious injury or death because they were legally armed. That's easy to do as there are no reliable statistics on how many times a legally concealed handgun was used for legitimate self defense.

The bottom line is that in Florida, your chances of getting shot by a person with a concealed weapons permit is less than your chances of getting hit by lightning. Unless, of course, you are a criminal who makes the mistake of attacking someone who is legally carrying.

[DainBramaged]

6. To the gun supporters any shooting is a good shooting because their gums trump everything

Gun rights trump the rights of children, women, Veterans, the poor, minorities, you name it, the Constitutional protection afforded the gun owner trumps the rights of everyone else, and they don't care about anyone else.


Shameful.

[rl6214]

7. What's shameful is how many people want to disarm and leave

defenseless the women, veterens, the poor and minorities who can't physically stand up against the stronger, younger more aggressive predators out there in the world today. If the criminals have a means to rape, assault and rob those that are weaker, why shouldn't the average citizen have the means to defend themselves? There are going to be predators in every society and we shouldn't have to give in to them.

The constitutional protection afforded the gun owner does not trup the rights of others, it's the unlawful acts of the criminals out there that trump those rights.

[Tunkamerica]

9. and the crippled! and little kids and short people!

what about the people with no hands? arthritis

[safeinOhio]

11. only allow guns for weak people

none for big strong strapping lads. Another good call.

[_ed_]

17. You guys will do anything to justify your violent little hobby

By the way, my wife doesn't own a gun, and she can protect herself just fine. In fact, she'd probably take your gun away from your and break your arm before you knew what happened.

Thanks for looking out for those weak, worthless, defenseless women, though, I'm sure they appreciate it .

[RSillsbee]

24. You should look up Amanda Collins

http://www.kunr.org/news/rape-victim-advocates-for-concealed-weapons-on-campus

second degree black belt and rape victim

[DainBramaged]

31. Yup, everyone should have a gun, worship the gun because ONLY the gun protects

my wrinkled old and I mean old ass. Fear, that's what it's about, and all of you just hope you have the chance to be heroes or pull your weapon to justify your fear.

[RSillsbee]

37. Having the chance to be a hero

I have pulled my gun in self defense (no shots fired) and according to the Army I've been a hero.

Both were events that happened and then life went on. Neither event defines my life today. I think about the DGU when the topic of muggings comes up here I think about the "Being a hero" bullshit when I have to move the citation around my book case to get at a book (the actual medal is (I think) at the bottom of a foot locker in the garage that hasn't been opened in years).

Either way neither one is all that big a deal to me

[DainBramaged]

64. Then why brag about it?

Heroes don't brag.

[RSillsbee]

81. Heroes don't brag.

I'm absolutely positive you are not speaking from experience

[DainBramaged]

82. You have no idea what a hero is John Wayne, absolutely none

talking the talk from behind a PC monitor, typical.

[spin]

46. The last thing in the world I ever want to have to do is to pull my weapon ...

and use it to stop an attacker who intends to seriously injure or kill me or someone I love.

I've known many people who actually do have carry permits and I have yet to meet one who was going around looking for trouble in hopes of shooting someone. Most believe that the best way to survive a fight is not to be in one. They practice situational awareness and by doing so, they avoid dangerous situations.

I have never been nor do I ever want to be a "hero".

And despite all your accusations and your fantasizing, people who actually carry concealed are not paranoid or fearful. They simply have a different mindset than you. Rather than ignore the fact that there is indeed violence in our society committed by criminals with weapons, they prefer to be prepared in case they find ever do find themselves about to become a victim.

[SteveM]

51. Since you have hung around these thread for some time, it should be evident...

that those speaking of "fear" and "heroes" are the gun-controller/prohibitionists. Your constant repetition of these themes doesn't make your accusations any more accurate; in fact, since you and some of your buddies use them all the time, I would suggest YOU are the one consumed with fear. I know nothing of your heroic potential.

You seem to have a prejudiced disposition against old people. Is that acceptable in the Kingdom of the Korrect?

[iverglas]

72. ah, the unanswered question

Amanda Collins testified to the Senate Government Affair committe in support of SB 231, which would allow concealed weapons on campuses.

She was raped by James Biela, who's now on death row for the kidnap, rape, and murder of 19-year-old Brianna Denison.

The rape happened at gunpoint in a parking garage on the UNR campus in October of 2007.

Collins was actually licensed to carry a concealed weapon at the time, but she didn't have her gun with her that night. She told the committee she didn't want to break the law by bringing it on campus.

Collins: "The unanswered question of my life is and will remain to be, ‘what would have changed if I was carrying my weapon that night?' It is a question that continually keeps me awake at night as I replay the worst ten minutes of my life over and over again with several different possibilities."

I tend to think, myself, that if someone is aiming a gun at one, and one attempts to aim a gun at that person, one is quite likely to get shot.

Just my theory.

So I looked her up.

Yes ... and ...?

[Hoyt]

36. LOL. We need more citizens like your wife as opposed to gun toting cowboys.

[rl6214]

40. More of your "gun toting cowboys" bs

When are you going to post that picture you keep promising? you can do that while you're field stripping that 1911 blindfolded, right?

Firgured out how that red dot scope works yet brainiac?

[spin]

52. My daughter has a solid background in the maritial arts ...

but she still carries a legally concealed firearm.

She got her training from one of the best judo instructors in the country and he told the women in his class that the wisest use of the skills he taught was to get away from a male attacker and then run.

My daughter can also disarm an attacker as she has training in jujitsu and the techniques for disarming an attacker with a gun or a knife.

She is fortunately also gifted with enough commonsense to know that if she ever were to encounter an attacker armed with a handgun who had the sense to stay outside of her reach, she is at a significant disadvantage. In such a situation, her concealed handgun could equalize the situation.

I'm not discounting the value of learning martial arts, just honestly appraising their limitations.

In reality, using a handgun for self defense is a martial art.

Martial arts

***snip***

Weapons-based

Those traditional martial arts which train armed combat often encompass a wide spectrum of melee weapons, including bladed weapons and polearms. Such traditions include eskrima, silat, Kalarippayattu, and also historical European martial arts, especially in the German Renaissance. Sometimes, training with one specific weapon will be considered a style of martial arts in its own right. This is especially the case in Japanese martial arts with disciplines such as kenjutsu (sword), bojutsu (staff), kyudo (archery), etc. Also in modern Western martial arts and sports such as modern fencing, stick-fighting systems like canne de combat or singlestick, or modern competitive archery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_arts

Combat pistol shooting

Combat pistol shooting is a modern martial art that focuses on the use of the handgun as a defensive weapon for self defense, or for military and police use.<1> Like most martial arts, combat pistol shooting is practiced both for defense and for sport.

Many of the action shooting disciplines are based on combat pistol techniques, and take the form of simulations of defensive or combat situations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_pistol_shooting

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

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[rl6214]

39. violent little hobby

yeah, all those poor defenseless paper targets we shoot at.

Has your wife stopped beating you yet?

[SteveM]

49. You guys will do anything to justify your prohibitions, even if it means...

handing more votes to the GOP.

The women I know can handle themselves, esp. the ones with guns. So, I don't need to speak for them.

[Hoyt]

62. Gunners who vote GOP were never Democrats or liberals.

[SteveM]

63. Got proof? Cites?

At least I can give you anecdotal evidence: I have a number of acquaintances who voted Democratic, and were liberal. 'Til some jerk-wads threatened gun-confiscation and got into power. Quite a few others just went "independent."

It's a no-win issue for you, Hoyt.

[DainBramaged]

65. Damn atraight. Their guns is more important than food for children, peace on earth, or curing cancer

[spin]

70. What I can't figure out is why draconian gun control is so damn important ...

for some liberals that they are willing to push for it even realizing that they are hurting the chances of solving other more far noble causes such as "food for children, peace on earth, or curing cancer" by causing gun owners to head to the polls to vote against Democrats.

Do you seriously believe that more gun control laws aimed at honest gun owners will solve the problem of violent crime in our nation?

How about you joining in an attempt to get the current gun laws enforced and target all new laws against putting any criminal caught carrying a firearm illegally in prison for a long time rather than giving him a mild slap on the wrist.

Why don't you join the outrage over the management of the ATF allowing thousands of firearms to "walk" from gun stores and end up in the hands of criminals both in Mexico and our nation? What if this would have happened under G. W. Bush?

Are you pushing to improve the NICS background check to input the names of violent criminals and those people legally adjudged as having serious mental problems on a more timely basis in order to stop them from legally purchasing firearms. Obama supports this idea.

[Hoyt]

74. These are not progressive -- Gun proliferation; practicing to shoot people; carrying in public;

preparing to shoot other citizens in event of a disaster; etc. Again, guns are not a progressive issue. If anything, guns represent regression to old ways of handling disputes.

I'm surprised you even have to ask. Walking around with a gun -- prepared to play judge, jury, jesus and executioner -- are just not progressive.

Background checks are nice, but would be even better if you guys would quit selling guns privately so that background checks can't be done. All gun sales need to go through FFL dealers with a reasonable fee.

There's more, but why waste my time on those who really can't imagine their life without guns.

[spin]

80. And just how does a "progressive" handle an attack from an armed person who intends ...

to seriously injure or kill him?

Please respond with some sage advice.

[LibertyFox]

79. That's impressive. (no sarcasm)

But do you really believe that defense solution would work for everyone?

[DainBramaged]

29. Bullshit

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

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[rl6214]

41. How many times you gonna post this?

What right to kill is that? I don't see any right to kill listed in the BOR. You don't know anything about me, just because I support the 2A. Time to get your panties unbunched.

[DainBramaged]

84. You guys love talking about men in panties........

[rl6214]

94. I didn't think I was talking about a man

[Hoyt]

35. Are you unable to stand up against . . . . . .? Or are you just using that to keep your guns?

[rl6214]

42. Figured out what a red dot scope is yet?

When you do, maybe I'll listen to what you might have to say. Until then you just keep fantasizing about cowboys.

[Hoyt]

44. I know it's not something you'd use in a self-defense situation in public. But, you guys like like

to arm yourselves for militia operations -- or clearing a house as one of the cowboys put it -- might find them useful in a sick pursuit of a gun high.

[rl6214]

76. Didn't know cowboys cleared houses

and again you are dead wrong, it is something that would be used in a self-defense situation because it allows for very quick target aquisition.

Ok, time for you to field strip your 1911 blindfolded. On your mark, get set, go...:rofl:

[Taitertots]

14. Why are you posting known lies?

Do you really think being intentionally dishonest is going to help advance your ideology?

[SteveM]

53. I think it's a habit they can't break. Gun-control organizations started early.nt

[rl6214]

77. It's the only thing they know

That and hurling insults and sending vile IMs

[WAFS]

20. Do you actually know anyone who would consider this a good shooting?

Or are you content to make broad assertions with absolutely nothing to back them up?

[DainBramaged]

34. Bullshit

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

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[friendly_iconoclast]

71. It's a fair question: Do you know anyone that would consider this a "good shoot"?

And if so, where's the evidence?

[friendly_iconoclast]

93. No answer, and I can't say I'm surprised. All wind and no mill, that one n/t

[PavePusher]

28. Cite? n/t

[rrneck]

30. That was a shameful tantrum. nt

[petronius]

69. Don't mind Dain - he probably had to come all the way down here to find some DUers

he doesn't have on ignore. But as usual, most of his 'contributions' will vanish once the overworked mods get a chance to catch their breath...

[SteveM]

48. Sounds like a little irrationality/animosity has crept into your "thinking." nt

[friendly_iconoclast]

58. I hear they stereotype entire groups of people, too! n/t

[Tunkamerica]

8. I own no gun, but would there be someone to confiscate the gun if the person doesn't check in

for their yearly mental health check? Because that almost immediately would become the biggest gov. agency we have.

[iverglas]

73. do you expect perfection

of any other public policy?

I agree that actual mental health screening either initially or subsequently is impractical.

Does that mean that a licensing system would have no benefits at all?

Canada's application process/form is here. Feel free to take a gander.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/form-formulaire/pdfs/921-eng.pdf

[newfie11]

10. He must be one sorry ass shooter

Shot the poor guy 4 or 5 times but he lived. Thank God he is a bad shot!

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[Taitertots]

15. Do you have any medical data to support this assertion?

No, you are just being intentionally dishonest.

[ileus]

16. Goods was OCin'? If Kern had been OCin' things may have turned out different.

If Kern had been OCn' he may not have been picked to be the victim.

[Hoyt]

38. Goods snuck up behind Kerns. If Kerns had been open carrying, wouldn't have made a difference.

This idea that someone with a gun on their hip is immune to crime is as crazy as Goods.

Criminals will just shoot victims in the head by surprise. Well, unless the open carrier is one of those -- like many here -- who think they can identify a criminal at long distance and shoot them before they get close enough. Not sure how you guys identify these criminals at a distance, but apparently you have a process.

[SteveM]

54. Well, it's your idea:

"This idea that someone with a gun on their hip is immune to crime is as crazy as Goods."

This is YOUR idea, not anyone I know, guns or no.

"Not sure how you guys identify these criminals at a distance, but apparently you have a process."

Another of your ideas?

[mikeb302000]

86. and the idea that

the solution to gun violence is more guns, is crazy. That would result in a never-ending escalation of more and more violence and death.

[TreasonousBastard]

18. Hmmm.. Here's a guy with no known history of violence or mental illness...

who flips out when he's out of work and about to become homeless.

The day before this happened, he had that Constitutional right to protect himself with a gun.

Presumably, the Constitutional right of the guy he shot to walk his dog in peace was not quite as important.

[WAFS]

21. He still has the right to DEFEND himself.

What he does not have, nor did he ever have, is the right to attack another person.

[TreasonousBastard]

26. OK, so if he ever gets out of jail, we give him a carry permit so...

he can defend himself?

At some point it gets ridiculous.

[SteveM]

55. Nope. Wrong. He doesn't get his 2A right back....

The ridiculousness is when gun-controller/prohibitionists make up stories, repeat lies, and construct straw men -- so all of it can be called "ridiculous."

[iverglas]

91. and oddly enough ...

He doesn't get his 2A right back

... had he succeeded in his endeavour, the person he killed would not have got their life back.

Not when he was convicted, not when he was incarcerated, and not when he didn't "get his 2A right back".

But who cares?

I still will never understand this.

Did he lose that famous right of self-defence somehow?

It seems to be a damned selective right.

Children don't have it, the certified mentally ill or incompetent don't have it, drug users don't have it, people with criminal convictions of various sorts don't have it ... it's a strange bird, this "right of self-defence", alright.

[WAFS]

19. The problem here is lax gun laws.

If the state of NY had tougher gun laws then people wouldn't be able to have such easy access to handguns, and they certainly shouldn't be allowed to roam around the streets carrying handguns. NY and it's lax gun laws are obviously to blame for this. If the police had simply gone to this mans house and confiscated his revolver he couldn't have committed this crime. Also, it's a good thing the man walking his dog didn't have a gun, or his attacker could have been harmed.

[SteveM]

56. The problem with your proposal is violation of the 5th Amendment...

From the news story:

"Police said that Goods had not been involved in any recent violent incidents and the only contact they had with him over the past 10 years involved minor matters:

- Records show Goods and another Mountainview resident were in a brief dispute over flashing car high-beam headlights at each other, and

- Goods 10 years ago had reported someone knocked over his motorcycle."

From your post:

"If the police had simply gone to this mans house and confiscated his revolver he couldn't have committed this crime."

Why should the police "simply gone to this man's house?" For what reason? Did he commit a crime worthy of his disarmament? Did he become adjudicated mentally incompetent (that means through a court of law)? You cannot "go to a house...and confiscate" without Fifth Amendment due process being followed, without recognizing 4th Amendment protections. Please read the applicable portions of the Constitution.

As for "his attacker" being harmed. Once someone uses deadly weapons on a citizen, the citizen can use deadly force in return; the fate of the attacker is a secondary concern and should be.

[rrneck]

22. What remedy do you offer

those you deem unfit for gun ownership if they will not be allowed to own a gun for self defense?

What assurance do you offer that firearms licences wont be abused by authorities?

We just finished two presidential terms that saw the White House occupied by a bunch of warmongering fascists. The same party then tried to elect as vice president a blithering egomaniacial corporate stooge and won't hesitate to do so again for the office of president.

How soon people forget the recent history of their own countries, here and in Europe.

[TreasonousBastard]

25. You mean history like France, with a murder rate 1/8 that of the US, or Germany, where...

I feel perfectly safe walking the streets of Nuremberg at night.

(Don't bring up that bullshit about Nazis confiscating guns)

[rrneck]

27. What happened the last time

there was an economic collapse in Europe? You know about newspapers, right?

[cleanhippie]

33. Unrec for blog flogging.

[SteveM]

57. "Digital photography has duplicated Warhol's approach without the cost..."

[DWC]

59. Outlaw all crazy people

This could just as easily have read:

"...comes up behind him and

a. Stabs him with a butcher knife
b. Smashes him in the head with a claw hammer
c. Slashes him with a machete
d. Hacks him with a roofer's axe
e. Other (fill in the blank) __________________

four or five times for no reason."
(Pick one)

Unless you have some plan to outlaw every sharp, blunt, and heavy object; and brute strength as well, I guess you just have to outlaw all crazy people and criminals.

Semper Fi,

[Hoyt]

60. Especially crazy ones who think gun or two strapped to their body is required to venture into public

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

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[DWC]

68. How about the really delusional ones

that think the government is going to protect them against violent robbers, burglars, rapists, and other criminals and crazies?

Semper Fi,

[Hoyt]

75. I think people with guns strapped to their bodies should not play judge, jury, jesus & executioner.

[DWC]

87. I think violent criminals and crazies

should not play judge, jury, jesus & executioner either. The government can not stop them. Law Enforcement can not stop them. If I do not have the tools necessary I can not stop them either.

After having to face one or more of these violent perpetrators, I much prefer the outcome to be that I may be tried by 12 rather than carried by 6.

Semper Fi,

[DainBramaged]

85. Is Semper Fi supposed to impress us?

[Atypical Liberal]

89. It impresses me.

[DWC]

90. Semper Fi

:)

[rl6214]

78. Clueless

[Name removed]

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[Atypical Liberal]

88. We don't need mental exams with NICS

That's the whole story really. No one knows what could have provoked the incident. One neighbor is walking the dog early in the morning, the other neighbor comes up behind and shoots him four or five times, no reason.

I'd like to suggest something, I don't know if anyone else has thought of it. Mr. Goods was stark raving mad. His mental condition could have been easily identified even in the most cursory exam.

The pro-gun crowd love to ask, "what law could have prevented this particular crime?" Well, how about licensing of gun owners which would require criminal as well as mental health background checks. The license would have to be renewed periodically. Do you think Eric Goods would have passed? I don't.

We have very simple metrics for judging if someone is mentally fit to own firearms:

1) Have they ever been involuntarily committed to a mental institution
2) Have they ever been adjudicated mentally incompetent.

We don't have to go to the time and expense of having mental examinations before buying firearms, because all you have to do is check NICS near-instantaneously for these two disqualifying conditions.

If you would like to add other mental issues to disqualify people in NICS, I'm open to suggestions, so long as they follow the due process of law.

I have no problem with licensing, so long as it preserves firearm ownership anonymity, as an opt-out system would do.

[iverglas]

92. of course you don't

No crazy people shootin at you, eh?

You're all right, Jack!