Concealed Carry Mania

[mikeb302000]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/09/12/bloomberg1376-LQPJSC1A74E901-3VPMER2H27E5SJFBK6CECG0O75.DTL">SFGate published a wonderful article in their Business section about concealed carry laws.

I've never touched a handgun and I haven't been to Florida in decades, yet this month Florida officials mailed me a permit to carry a concealed gun.

If Congress adopts a bill that the National Rifle Association is pushing, Florida's licenses would apply to 49 states in all -- allowing their holders to carry hidden guns in places such as midtown Manhattan, where the New York Police Department rejects most such applications for "concealed- carry" permits.

Part of the discussion centers on states' rights vs. the federal government. In their usual flip-flopping way, the gun-rights folks are all for the federal government http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2009/07/concealed-carry-reciprosity.html">when it favors their agenda. In this case federal law would supersede state law in determining who can carry a concealed carry weapon.

Added to that is the obvious abuse of the system which allows people like the author of the article to apply for out-of-state licenses. http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2010/09/utah-concealed-carry-permits.html">Utah and Florida are the meccas for this kind of legal circumvention of the law.

New York State is an extreme example, but many states have training and testing requirements before issuing licenses. Gun owners with out-of-states permits like those issued from Florida and Utah, are required to do nothing at all.

What's your opinion? Is this right? Wouldn't national reciprocity punish the states with stricter standards? Doesn't allowing out-of-state licenses already do that?

Please leave a comment, tell us what you think?
http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/">(cross posted at Mikeb302000)

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

1. I think there should be reciprocity wth a national standard.

something like 12 hours of instruction, 4 hours of range time, and a background check would be a good basis. States can keep their in state carry laws (VT, AK, AZ, WY... and other less strict states) but if that citizens wants US reciprocity they'll also have to apply for interstate license.

For example, numerous states grant restricted driving licenses cocsistent with their laws - however those laws may be much more lenient than oter states. For example, a number of states don't allow ANYONE under 16 to operate a car... and other states issue restricted licenses to children as young as 12 years old. All that happens is that those restricted permits only become valid in thier home states.

I think concealed carry could operate in the same fashion.
If states choose, they can issue in-state permits (in addition to the national permits) which have lower prerequisites.

[GreenStormCloud]

5. Perdiction: The bill will pass, Obama will veto it.

And he will get beat over the head with it in the election.

Over 50% of the House has an "A" rating with the NRA. It will pass the House.

It got 59 votes in the Senate last year when it was a rider to another bill. It needed 60 to get past a Democratic filibuster. After the 2010 election the votes will be there for it to pass.

I hope I am wrong about Obama vetoing it.

If the bill passes it will effectively turn "May-issue" states into "Shall-issue" as their citizens who can't get local permits get UT or FL ones. UT & FL will make some out-of-state money from the fees.

[DanTex]

6. Yeah those pesky Dems keep getting in the way of the right-wing agenda

[GreenStormCloud]

7. The bill has bipartisan support.

Only some Democrats oppose it.

[DanTex]

8. Yeah, in the same sense that the Iraq War was an international coalition.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

10. There are a fair amount of Democratic co sponsors

[krispos42]

24. Except that dem support for such bills far outlived the "coalition"

or Dem support for Iraq.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

9. That may be the intent.

The repukes will use it as a stick in the battle ground state against us

[SteveM]

20. Yes, indeed. The GOP (and, yes, the NRA) are experienced at setting traps like this...

...and the Democrats (along with Obama) are experienced in stepping into it.

[PavePusher]

28. More like their heads....

or dicks.

Since there hasn't been a gratuitous pecker slur recently.....

[SteveM]

36. "pecker slut?" Yes, I was called a "redneck" recently...

and I objected: "Can't you tell a Cracker from a redneck?";-)

[We_Have_A_Problem]

19. More like...

Some pesky individuals who don't give a damn about their constituent's rights and freedoms, the laws of our nation, or really anything but their own silly prejudices, keep getting in the way of doing what is right.

Support for national CCW reciprocity is bipartisan.

Now, would you like to try another baseless claim, or are you going to accept that your ignorance has led you to make a few truly stupid statements?

[GreenStormCloud]

2. The bill picked up another co-sponsor yesterday, total 243. N/T

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

3. Oh, and by the way... Florida and Utah DO have CHL requirements

As usual you have glaring mistakes. For someone so obsessed with writing about guns, you ought to try and educate yourself. The states where citizans may freely carry concealed are AK VT WY & AZ. FL and UT are very popular because most other states have reciprocal agreements whith them and they will grant out-of-state permits to nonresidents... not because of minimal prerequisites for obtaining the permits.

[gravity556]

17. It would be nice, however,

if all the states went to constitutional carry like AZ and the other free states. Requiring a permit to exercise a right is idiotic.

[mikeb302000]

32. didn't you read the article I quoted?

The author got the FL licence through the mail for christ's sake.

[gejohnston]

35. point is

Florida is not unique. Nor is Florida's the easiest. They all come in the mail. I am guessing Italy's gun permits are mailed to the individuals too.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

38. Canadian CHLs are hand delivered by Canadian Mounties riding atop armoured moose.

[one-eyed fat man]

4. You condone perjury ?

Someone else found it distasteful long before you found it worthwhile in promoting your agenda.

Bloomberg writer admits to perjury to obtain FL concealed firearms license

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x460916

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. The bubba lied and should be prosecuted for it

[AtheistCrusader]

12. Nice of him to admit in national print that he committed a crime in doing this.

That will make the prosecutors job much easier, with a confession in hand.

The notary is fucked too.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

13. I hope the legislation becomes a ryder/earmark on the JOBS bill.

then Obama can't veto it - lol.

[AtheistCrusader]

14. Worked for one of my co-workers.

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Citizen-who-arrested-suspected-shooter-127158208.html

[jmg257]

15. I'm in NY. My opinion is: I hope it passes so I can carry anywhere. nt

[Atypical Liberal]

16. This is just a natural part of the expansion of firearm rights.

The sweeping liberalism of firearm rights is reaching its zenith, and this is just a bit of the fallout which still needs to be resolved.

It too over 20 years, but we have finally reached the point where every state in the nation allows concealed carry except for Illinois.

Now we are sorting out the problems of all these different states having different standards for carrying concealed weapons. It is going to take some hammering out to make it uniform and effective.

The goal is simple: If you have a concealed carry permit you should be able to go anywhere in the United States carrying a concealed weapon, just as you can drive anywhere in the United States with any state's driver's license.

I think it's logical that you should receive the permit from the state that you reside in. I would not mind national standards for concealed carry, but I don't see what the big deal is. I suspect that if you could see the data, you would see that regardless of what state the permit holders received their permit in, and no matter how much or how little training or testing they had to undergo, you will probably still see that the rate of revocation of permits is miniscule.

Today, states currently make their own standards for driver's licenses, yet driver's licenses are still universally recognized from one state to another, even if one state has more less restrictive requirements.

But the ultimate goal here is clear, and is coming: No state anywhere is going to be able to deprive people from exercising their Constitutional right to keep and bear arms, and no state is going to be able to prevent the carrying of concealed weapons.

[spin]

21. Bloomberg will have a stroke ...

if this law passes. He will no longer be able to limit legal concealed carry in New York city to the rich, the famous and his buddies.

[PavePusher]

27. Fuck that elitist pig.

Did I get that right?

[Hoopla Phil]

29. It's the backlash I tell ya.

[lawwolf]

18. Complete BS

Unless they changed the law this entire article is BS. The law in Congress right now (at least its earlier versions) only applied to people who had RESIDENT gun permits. If you lived in California and got a non-resident permit, the new law WOULD NOT require any state to honor that permit.

[GreenStormCloud]

30. You are wrong. Read the bill.

Here is a link to the text of the bill: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.822:

Sec. 926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms

`(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof, related to the carrying or transportation of firearms, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a government-issued photographic identification document and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State, other than the State of residence of the person, that--
`(1) has a statute that allows residents of the State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms; or
`(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.
`(b) A person carrying a concealed handgun under this section shall be permitted to carry a handgun subject to the same conditions or limitations that apply to residents of the State who have permits issued by the State or are otherwise lawfully allowed to do so by the State.
`(c) In a State that allows the issuing authority for licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms to impose restrictions on the carrying of firearms by individual holders of such licenses or permits, a firearm shall be carried according to the same terms authorized by an unrestricted license or permit issued to a resident of the State.

Here is a link to an official summary: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h822/show

Official Summary
2/18/2011--Introduced.National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011 - Amends the federal criminal code to authorize a person who is carrying a government-issued photographic identification document and a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm in one state, and who is not prohibited from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm under federal law, to carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) in another state in accordance with the restrictions of that state.

Nothing there about it having to be a resident license.

[rl6214]

22. Anybody wanna bet me that the links lead to his blog?

"I've never touched a handgun and I haven't been to Florida in decades, yet this month Florida officials mailed me a permit to carry a concealed gun."

Yeah, ya didn't see fit to mention that later in the article it said how "
Florida, which granted my permit after I viewed a half- hour, online safety video, now says it made a mistake."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/09/12/bloomberg1376-LQPJSC1A74E901-3VPMER2H27E5SJFBK6CECG0O75.DTL#ixzz1XxUObeXj

He wasn't just someone that had a permit sent to him, he had initiated the process. That ommition is somewhat dishonest in my opinion.

[Atypical Liberal]

23. You can tell by hovering your mouse over the links.

If you hover your mouse over the links, you can see where they go before you click on them.

Yes, all of his links but one go back to his blog. Don't click on them.

[mikeb302000]

33. take that bet. The link goes to SFGate.

[DanTex]

25. Ain't nuthin but a Road-Rage Thang...

'Road-Rage' Thing

It began as "a road-rage kind of thing," Feldman recalls. He and the other driver pulled to the side of the road, "and the guy gets out of his car and he's carrying a tire iron."

Feldman drew the Smith & Wesson Holding Corp.'s .38 caliber Chief's Special Airweight, a five-shot revolver that was a gift from his girlfriend. He rolled down his car's window and pointed it at the approaching driver.

"'You got a problem, Bud?'" he recalls asking.

"He dropped the tire iron and said 'Sorry, my mistake,' and retreated back to his vehicle," Feldman said. "I'm not sure what would have happened if I hadn't had that gun." Feldman still has the tire iron in his garage.

One of my favorite DGU genres is the classic, gratuitous road-rage DGU. It's right up there with the "I get the remote DGU" and the "you're not breaking up with me DGU". But, really, nothing makes the church of CCW prouder than gratuitously showing the other guy who's boss when you could instead have just driven away.

My only complaint is that "You got a problem, Bud" is just so dull. In my opinion, to score full points, you gotta go with Clint Eastwood: "Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have fucked with? That's me."

[friendly_iconoclast]

26. The morally superior person accepts the chance of traumatic brain injury

It's only those crude types with guns that choose the cowards' way out....

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mikeb302000]

34. your question is asanine. nt

[X_Digger]

37. Lol, love the spin on this one..

from the sfgate article:

Last month, Ohio became one of a handful of states where it's legal to carry a concealed firearm into a bar -- though some allow bar owners to opt out and others forbid the gun owner from drinking or being drunk.

(em. mine.)

'Some'? How about all. No state forces owners to allow concealed carry.