Eight killed in California hair salon shooting

[MichaelHarris]

"Local media reports said the gunmen was ex-military and had multiple weapons and was wearing body armor at the time of the shooting....Multiple shootings are an all-too-familiar occurrence in the United States: only last week a gunman killed three people at a quarry in California's Silicon Valley, while three were also killed in Carson City, Nevada in September. "
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gbjibzis7pRnURLaL7E-ZUvZCyYQ?docId=CNG.8893091bb42baeeb85dd89ded02beef0.c51

"My friend is dead. My friend is dead, ” Pei said the woman told her. “I held her.” Pei said she also spoke to a man married to someone who was at the salon. “My baby. She’s half of me,” Pei recalled him saying. “Please, God, don’t let her be dead.” http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/10/seal-beach-shooting-death-toll-rises-to-eight.html

Anyone want to guess the weapon used?

[jmg257]

1. "ak-47 style assault rifle"? Dumb fucker kills people due to dispute w/ex wife.

Selfish scumbag.

[MichaelHarris]

4. lately

when you absolutely need a body count that seems to be the consumer weapon of choice.

[jmg257]

5. Yep...reads like he had his choice though... nt

[Katya Mullethov]

6. Consumers and political hacks alike

I was on the edge of my seat yesterday , waiting to see if Holder was gonna pull a Bud Dwyer or not .

[PavePusher]

14. Relatively cheap and generally reliable....

and reasonably accurate for the price and function.

Otherwise, no different than any other magazine fed semi-auto rifle.

In short, a relative bargin of a tool. The same reasons many people buy a variety of cars. Or power saws.

The tool is not the problem here.

[AtheistCrusader]

15. Statistics to back that up?

Or just a 'feeling' from some headlines?

[Remmah2]

23. Could have just as easily tossed in a five gallon can of gas and a match.

Mass murders have also been done with knives, swords, clubs and explosives. The guy was in clear violation of California gun laws.

Domestic violence is wrong, people should be allowed the option to defend themselves reasonably as opposed to submitting to draconian one sided laws. I'm opposed to violence but if I go down I plan on going down kicking and screaming, I plan on defending my wife and children to a greater degree.

[friendly_iconoclast]

33. They're popular in Moscow, Idaho. Or so I've been told. n/t

[ileus]

2. T&P's for the families....

sounds like another mental health issue.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

3. Odd that he would choose to wear body armor.

Almost as if people who commit these murders do not want shot back at...

:sarcasm:

[Logical]

7. We do have a very high murder rate compared to the UK, Germany, France, Canada, etc.

But no way at this point to remove guns from this country, so the good guys might as well have access to them.

The criminals and psychos will always have guns. Honest people deserve to have the right also.

[Hoyt]

29. That's it. Let's pump out another 100 million guns over the next decade. Problem will be worse

when this country finally gets around to addressing it.

[friendly_iconoclast]

34. Only you and your ilk would wish for a higher murder rate...

...just so you can get started on Prohibition 3.0 (Slogan: "Trust Us, This Time It Will Work. Really!")

[Logical]

36. Explain "how to address it"

[oneshooter]

37. Don't hold your breath waiting for Hoyt to answer. He dosn't seem to "do" answers. n/t

[Remmah2]

8. Gotta love CA firearm laws.

You're only allowed to carry unloaded firearms and CCW's are as rare as honest politicians.

[jmg257]

9. Fucking Tea Bagger scum wad...gun militant for sure. nt

[oneshooter]

38. Proof that he was a "teabagger" or just your wishes. n/t

[jmg257]

41. What I wish is that this scumbag didn't murder 8 people.

As I think it isn't good AT ALL for the victims, and in a much lessor extent for lawful gun owners.

What do you wish for? That no one disparages the Tea Baggers for some reason? Or teabag supporting misogynistic scumwads who murder people?

BTW see post #40.

eit: referal to "proof" addded

[We_Have_A_Problem]

39. I dont see anything in the OP

which supports either of those claims. Do you have additional information you'd like to share, or do you just assume anyone with a firearm is a "Tea Bagger scum wad gun militant"?

[jmg257]

40. Well, let's see...

See the license plate surround?

it says "Help Save America _ww.JointheTeaParty.us"

He murdered 8 people - with a gun - and had numerous guns in his vehicle.

What do you think?

I think he was a teabagger & a gun militant - does that upset you for some reason?

edit: avoid teabag link

[iverglas]

10. doesn't sound like "mental health" to me

Sounds like one more of the hundreds of men in the US every year who kill the women they can't control.

Unsuccessful narcissists. The world, and especially women, should give them what they want. If they don't give them what they want, they need to be punished.

Personality disorders are not mental illnesses.

[left coaster]

11. + 1,000! Violence against women is epidemic in the U.S.

I'm hoping I'll live to see the day when the numbers go down, but I may be only dreaming.

[Callisto32]

18. +1,000 Violence is epidemic in the U.S.

There, I fixed it for you.

Why do we have to have the gender labels at all?

Newsflash: Domestic violence in the U.S. is initiated by men and women each roughly half of the time. Women are more likely to be seriously injured in the confrontations, but also more likely to even out the size/strength differential by using a weapon. The number one reason cited by women who admit to initiating physical violence against their male partners? "He wouldn't listen to me." Translated, that means that she was trying to coerce him with force to do what she wanted. A.K.A. she attacked him because she could not control him.

I agree with this subthread that this kind of violence is far too common in American culture, but couching it entirely in terms of violence against women does a disservice to all of the male victims of domestic violence AND the women that perpetrate it.

[hack89]

19. No - violence is at a 50 year low and still declining.

you have never been safer and will be even more safe in the future.

[Callisto32]

20. So it's an epidemic of influenza, not ebola.

American culture, as most human cultures, is violent.

I am not trying to minimize that violent crime rates are down. That is great, and I often cite the fact myself.

But there is still too much violence, especially between people who profess their love for one another, in the United States.

I am glad that the rates are down, but that doesn't mean we should cease to aspire for every lower rates of violence.

[hack89]

21. But violence in America is skewed by the "war on drugs".

violent crimes are not evenly distributed throughout America - they are clustered in areas of high crime, high poverty and high gang activity. That is certainly the case in Rhode Island where I live - there are many towns that have not had a murder in years - my town of 17,000 has had one murder in the last 15 years. It a town where many don't lock their houses or cars - they feel that safe. But there are places in the urban areas like Providence and Central Falls where drug related gang violence is never ending.

You want to reduce violence - stop wasting time on guns and rationalize our drug laws. Decriminalize and treat it as a public health issue.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. "See something, say something"

This DHS motto should include your neighbor beating on his wife a couple nights a week.

So much of this sort of thing can be seen coming a mile away, and nobody stops it. Very sad.

[jeepnstein]

22. Who has the courage to speak up?

We rail at the government for not passing this law or that law but none of us lift a finger to stop our neighbors, friends, relatives, loved ones, from beating others senseless. The crocodile tears shed by some after it all ends in some horrific bloody scene disgusts me. We hide from the drug dealers poisoning our own children. We are a country of talkers, not doers. Afraid to get our hands dirty or to invite the slightest inconvenience into our own lives. That's what is causing the body count that some posters on this board relish in bringing to us daily.

[iverglas]

24. fascinating

On the one occasion that I witnessed spousal violence -- hearing my downstairs neighbours in a ratty old duplex as he apparently assaulted her (I could tell from their voices and words that there was no immediate threat of serious injury) -- I called the police immediately.

By the time they got there (not long after), he was gone, of course, and she denied the events, of course. The police came to my door and asked whether I knew his name. It happened that we had just had an election, and in those days the voters list was posted on telephone polls. I'd made a point of getting his name. William Smith, I said. One cop looked knowingly at the other, and said Ah, Billy Smith. It was obvious from looking at him that he was a petty criminal of some sort.

Although I did not know the couple (we had separate entrances on opposite sides of the building), I made a point of speaking to her when I next saw her and advising her that she was welcome to come to my door if she ever needed help. (I did the same in the case of a young couple on the block where I now live, a few years ago: I suspected that there were problems and since we were friendly with both, I just told her one day that if she ever needed help she could come to our door. Actually, everybody on the block knew that anyway; I got the kid with a nosebleed, the kid being extorted at school, the Chinese-speaking couple with the burst water tank and the locked door, the civil servant needing help with a bilingualism exam ...)

Bill Smith moved out shortly after that. A couple of years later, he happened to get on the bus I was on, going home from the office. He sat down, conveniently, right behind the rear exit. He obviously didn't recognize me. So when my stop came (I still lived in the same place, so he probably made the connection afterward), I went to the rear exit, and just before the doors opened, I turned to him and said in a loud voice: So, you still beating up women, Bill Smith? and got out. It seemed the least I could do.

Of course, in my practice I got referrals from women's shelters in town, for the couple of years I did general practice when I first started, and then still got referrals from them when they had immigrant clients. I had women refugee clients who had been victims of sexual violence in their home countries. Later in my practice, my assistant, a former lawyer from outside Canada, started an organization to assist immigrant and visible minority women victims of violence, and I helped with that when asked. When I was a law student, I volunteered with an organization to assist women accused in the criminal courts (there is overlap between the two groups of course); and yes, I found a singular lack of interest among my "feminist" fellow students in doing that kind of grunt work when there were more stellar career moves to be made.

I remember one particular kind of crazy case when I was first in practice, when a client called me late one night from a pay phone in a bar washroom to say her boyfriend was essentially holding her hostage under threats of violence and making her drive around with him and a carload of stolen goods. I got the cops to pull him over for something and get her away from him and bring her to me, and I got her to the shelter.

I wonder what else I might do, short of wandering the streets looking for women who might be victims of violence and offering them a lift to a shelter. My work schedule (required to be available during business hours and also evenings and weekends) doesn't allow me to take regular volunteer gigs anymore.

So I'm just curious:

The crocodile tears shed by some after it all ends in some horrific bloody scene disgusts me.

I wonder who these "some" are ...

[jeepnstein]

28. "I wonder who these "some" are ?"

Certainly not you. While you and I obviously disagree on a lot of things I never doubt your willingness to jump in and make a difference.

[iverglas]

31. thank you

"Willingness to jump in and make a" noise, most especially. ;)

I've never actually been faced with a situation where I would have to jump in physically, that I recall. I like to think I would, mainly because I would tend not to think twice before jumping.

Oh right. There was the time I arrived at my downtown bus stop to see a struggle going on out on the island in the road where the bus stopped. A guy with a white cane I knew by sight (oops) from around the university there had hold of a young scruffy-looking guy and was grabbing and punching and flailing at him while the young guy tried not to hit back ... and a bunch of people watched. I quickly figured it was possible the young guy had tried to mug him, but more likely, given his passive response to the assault, that he'd noticed that the visually impaired guy was in the middle of traffic and confused and tried to help. I figured if I distracted the v.i. guy the other guy could get away and things could calm down. So I zipped across and touched him lightly on the arm and said something. He turned around and walloped me. The other guy and I got our distance, and decided that discretion was the better part of valour and left him, although I kept an eye out that he didn't get run over.

So there is my one act of physical bravery. Rescuing a dude from assault by a blind guy. ;)

It was a little difficult explaining one situation to a young friend on the block a few years ago. Neighbours next door to her and across the street and down one from me. We were putting up her porch flowerboxes, and these two were going at it hammer and tongs and could be heard clearly through the door down the driveway about 20 feet from where we stood. I knew them; middle-aged alcoholics, both very pleasant in public, and we were on friendly terms. I don't actually think there was violence going on; she just provoked and swore at and insulted and provoked him (possibly being well provoked herself first, of course; with alcoholics, one doesn't bother guessing). I had a little chat with the 10-yr-old neighbour, about how if I really believed that Melissa or Patrick was getting hurt I would call the police right away and do something to try to stop it, but we knew they were just drunk and yelling.

The little girl came forward later when she was the only person who could identify the guy who walked into my house and took my purse (twice, six months apart -- he learned, I didn't ... but who knows how many times he'd tried the door when it was locked as it usually was ...). Her Chinese-speaking/born mother (you know, we don't involve the authorities) wouldn't let her look at a photo line-up, which was all the cops wanted just to go with everything they had on the guy already. All the things I did for the family, and that was what I got in return; it was a little off-putting. I like to think I had (I know I did) some influence to counter that "don't get involved" mentality.

[jeepnstein]

32. That's why I'm not a full-time cop.

It's just breath taking the lengths people will go to in not getting involved. I'm working on a fellow right now who has detailed information about a rather large string of burglaries but he is hesitant because one of the suspects is "kin". What's going to wind up happening is he and his wife are going to catch a charge because some of the loot was stored at their house. His daughter is rocking a full-blown addiction to pain pills and is stealing everything that isn't chained down to feed her habit and he won't even talk to her about it. She would steal the stuff that is chained up be she hocked her bolt cutters already. And then he launches into a tirade about the police not doing their jobs. Hey buddy, walk around in that sewer eight or ten hours a day and tell me how easy it is.

I once went to a suicide in progress. A young man had a shotgun in his mouth and was just getting up the courage to finish the job. We talked for a while and he took my word for it that he probably was getting ready to make a horrible mistake. One of the proudest nights of my life. So after the guy handed over the shotgun I asked his father where he got it. "Oh, he's had that one for years. I took it away from him because he had been threatening to kill himself. I gave it back this morning because he said he was going hunting." Hey dad, here's your sign. I think he finally finished the job with a bottle of pills a couple of years back. Again, his own family wouldn't step forward and try to help what was obviously a very disturbed man.

That's why I firmly believe some folks are barking up the wrong tree going after the 2nd Amendment. Every one of these tragedies we see is chock full of people who should have seen it coming a mile away but "didn't want to get involved". That's the problem with American society as I see it. We're all too insulated and full of ourselves to do anything to help our own community. And in typical American fashion we've got people wanting to address a symptom and not the root cause of the problem.

[AtheistCrusader]

25. I've risked my ass a couple times to help others in this sort of situation.

(Domestic abuse, not an active shooter)

Some of us do speak up, call the police, or even physically put our bodies between aggressor and victim. Sucks, but it has to be done, and not enough people do it.

[Atypical Liberal]

12. Looks like that new Open Carry prohibition law is working out well. n/t

[rl6214]

13. YUP, about as well as that California assault weapon ban

[Tejas]

17. Gun Control works!

:sarcasm:

[Hoyt]

30. The BS gun laws we have in this country because of the "gun culture" clearly don't work.

Time to get serious about it.

[friendly_iconoclast]

35. Gotta have that Prohibition 3.0, don't you?

What I'd like to know is:

What do you lot propose to do differently to prevent your version of Prohibition from failing like the first two did?

[slackmaster]

26. Some of my fellow contributors will share in the irony of a tragic boating accident being involved

http://belmontshore.patch.com/articles/profile-emerges-of-suspected-salon-killer

[Glassunion]

27. His tale is quite sad, and PTSD may have played a part in this.

However, I feel that he is an evil person who committed a horrible act.

Yet another case of someone who needed help and no one around the man lifted a finger.