HuffPo's Diane Dimons: "Be furious over 'Fast & Furious:"

[SteveM]

HuffPo has a locked-in philosophy of gun-control/prohibition; Diane Dimons who just posted there is no exception:

"Truth be told I'd like to see all guns -- from small handguns and glocks to rifles and semi-automatic types -- melted down and used for scrap.

"Tra-la-lah! Wouldn't it be a wonderful world that found no need for guns at all? My logical brain tells me that is never going to happen."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-dimond/packing-heat-at-college_b_829785.html

(Well, correction. She isn't a "controller." She's a hard-line and extreme prohibitionist.)



As with most of MSM, Dimond is playing catch-up, and feels obliged to sum up the operations, sans speculation that it is anything more than a sting that went bad, but more to the point she now acknowledges the trouble the Obama administration faces over the "Fast/Furious/Gun walker" scandal:

"And remember the name "Fast and Furious" because I predict you'll be hearing a lot about it in the days ahead."

"There are so many questions. Why, after the scandal was exposed, were four top ATF officials in charge of Fast and Furious promoted to higher paying positions? Why has no one taken responsibility for this monstrous waste of manpower and taxpayer dollars? Why is our top law enforcement official, Eric Holder, being so defensive instead of aggressively going after a special prosecutor to look into this boondoggle? The Department of Justice should not investigate itself."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-dimond/fast-and-furious-atf_b_1021028.html

_________________________
Dimond's claims not to talk about politics, only "crime and justice" (as if the two are somehow separated), but she represents an increasing trend in MSM to take this gun-trafficking scandal seriously. Seriously enough to ask telling questions, and to make a startling advocacy for a "special prosecutor." In short, it's not just about right-wing blogs or even a few notable MSM outlets like CBS, and the L.A. Times.

It's now about center-liberal groups with a gun-control/prohibitionist agenda like HuffPo.

[Hoyt]

1. Hope she expounds on her opinion of guns in general while she's at it.

"Truth be told I'd like to see all guns -- from small handguns and glocks to rifles and semi-automatic types -- melted down and used for scrap. . . . . ." DD

[SteveM]

2. I don't think many gun-banners are hot to expound during Fast/Furious.nt

[Hoyt]

3. Obviously that is what you hope for in the hoopla around F&F. Let's hope it ultimately helps focus

people on need to restrict guns in public and beef up ATF and investigations.

[spin]

7. Maybe it's time for the ATF to become part of a professional law enforcement agency ...

such as the FBI which has management that supposedly acts more responsibly.

There are already rumors that this will happen. Time will tell.

The unfortunate part is that the ATF may take the fall and therefore it's quite possible that we will never learn how far up the food chain this scandal goes. As usual lately, the really big boys will walk free and bear no responsibility for their actions.

Your scenario of this scandal leading to a "beefed up" bigger and badder ATF and a resurgence of people pushing for the passage of new draconian gun control is laughable in an election year.

[one-eyed fat man]

26. ATF & FBI

or what goes around comes around.

On July 1, 1930, the Prohibition Bureau was transferred from the Treasury Department to the Department of Justice. Early in 1933, as part of the Franklin D. Roosevelt-sponsored Omnibus Crime Bill, the Prohibition Bureau was briefly absorbed into the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), or Division of Investigation as the agency was then called. At this point it became the Alcohol Beverage Unit. Though part of the FBI on paper, J. Edgar Hoover, who wanted to avoid liquor enforcement and the taint of corruption that was attached to it, continued to operate it as a separate, autonomous agency in practice.

Following the repeal of Prohibition in December 1933, the Alcohol Beverage Unit was removed from the FBI and the Justice Department, and returned to Treasury, where, coming full circle, it became the Alcohol Tax Unit of the IRS, ultimately evolving into the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms

Those who think that folding the ATF into the FBI would help should be reminded, "When you mix dirty water with clean water, all you get is MORE DIRTY WATER."

[spin]

31. Did you notice ...

In my post that I used the words "FBI which has management that supposedly acts more responsibly."

It hasn't been widely pointed out but some of the straw purchasers of the weapons were convicted felons and should have never passed the FBI background check unless the FBI was also complicit in the activity.

Convicted Felons Bought Guns in 'Operation Fast and Furious'

Updated: Tuesday, 26 Jul 2011, 7:32 AM MST
Published : Tuesday, 26 Jul 2011, 7:22 AM MST

LOS ANGELES - Operation Fast and Furious was a government law enforcement initiative that allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican criminals - and two men busted in the operation are from Phoenix.

***snip***

We tried tracking down buyers Jacob Chambers and Sean Stewart. Both had criminal records, which should have made them prohibited purchasers - instead the pair was allowed to buy 363 guns.

***snip***

When asked if it cooperated with the ATF investigation, FBI officials refused to comment. However a whistleblower ATF agent said that whenever "Fast and Furious" suspects try to buy a gun, the FBI alerted the group's supervisor who approved each sale, even when it should have been delayed or denied.
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/crime/guns-allowed-to-fall-into-the-hands-of-mexican-criminals-07262011

This little tidbit will be largely ignored but it is an indication that that scandal is evolves more federal agencies than the ATF and is far bigger and far more serious than a mere sting operation gone awry.

[one-eyed fat man]

32. Follow the chain of command

The only way the FBI does what the ATF wants is if the "boss" of them both tells them to cooperate. The guy who signed this chart is responsible. He is also the the biggest stumbling block to an honest accounting of what happened.

[spin]

33. That chart sums it up nicely. (n/t)

[socialindependocrat]

11. You missed the problem....

The BATF allowed guns to be purchased and moved to the drug cartells in Mexico.

The BATF did not restrict the sales of these guns in order to
show a need for the BATF.

If a government agency is going to play games why are they any
better than the other lying bastards we have in elected office?

Let's play by the rules.
If there is a need, so be it.
Let's not manufacture a need to benefit our agency.

People seem to forget that personal honor, trust and
ethics were valued at some time in the history of our country!

[Hoyt]

13. ATF has already indicted 30 gun runners from this. More will come from informants and undercover

agents. Hard core gunners have hated ATF and gun laws for decades -- because laws and enforcement keep them away from the weapons they desire.

Clearly people screwed up and should be fired. When it's over, I think most folks tunes will change. Or more likely it will just fade away and gunners will look for other things to criticize to take the pressure off the fact that we are allowing too many guns to float around in this country.

[gejohnston]

20. That is all well and good but

the ATF should have busted them before the guns go to the border instead of after.

[socialindependocrat]

21. Two comments...

The BATF is just an enforcement agency. The conflict is with the differing philosophies of gun owners and people who don't want guns around. The BATF is acting as though they need to set the stage to show a need for their agency instead of just doing their job.

Secondly, a lot of people own guns. If each gun owner had one gun people would probably say there are too many guns. The fact is that people who don't like guns don't want any around. Some of us grew up with guns. My grandfather rode the trains and had a Winchester and a pistol. My father got me a BB gun (not a Red Rider) when I was 6 or 7 years old. I shot on the rifle team in high school. I believe that I can have a gun in my home and protect myself from home invaders. Other people did not grow up that way. The Jews in WWII didn't own guns and found that they were at a disadvantage and had no way to protect themselves.

My job as a gun owner is to be a safe and responsible gun owner.

Others do not feel safe around guns. This is only logical since
they are not familiar with nor do they like to shoot guns.

We will never have "ZERO" guns in the United States.
How can we coexist without people being scared?
Almost all gun owners are respectful of the danger of a loaded gun.
It's the bad guys who are going to break into your home no matter what.
If they don't have a gun, they will have a knife or baseball bat.

I have been trying to figure why I'm a Democrat and I like guns.. whatever.

What this whole post was about was that you have more to fear from the BATF
than you do from your neighbor who owns a gun that you don't even know about.
It's the lying people in power who are messing up our lives; they are the enemy.

As I said, honor and respect are the hallmarks of a good agency not thugs who
make up their own rules in order to benefit themselves. We have a problem with
our government that needs to be addressed - I don't feel we are safe with them
in charge.

I don't know how to satisfy everyone but hopefully I've shed some light on the subject.

[Remmah2]

24. Democrats & guns.

My dad was a steelworker labor Democrat and owned guns. My brother is a chemical plant operator union democrat (former shop union rep) and owned guns. I see tons of gun racks in the F-150s at the local Ford plant. Several of my uncles are farmers, democrats and own full gun safes. About 1/2 the guys at my rod & gun club are Democrats; a mixed bag of labor careers there. Heck, the local UAW sponsers a pistol team. I don't think it's a union thing, it seems to be a labor thing. We all work with our hands and are pretty earthy in our lives.

[socialindependocrat]

28. Good observation!

I'll bet there are a lot of Dem shooters.

My mind automatically clicks to anti-gun when I see votes from the Dems in congress.

I knew that the NRA has power to keep the new laws fair
but now I think that we need to find out what percentage
of anti-gun folks we actually have on the Dem side.
It may be 50/50.

Why do I feel the need to tip-toe around the issue of guns
whenever I'm in a democratic forum???

[Callisto32]

27. The ATF is a bunch of corrupt fuckups.

This is clearly fixed by giving money and power to the ATF...

[one-eyed fat man]

34. Just for you....

Here is a gated community in Georgia where all the residents are gun free. Why aren't you begging to be allowed to move into this gun free heaven?



You could hope to get a roommate like this instead of the ordinary violent miscreant:



Bureau of Prisons

A butter bootlegger, John Seymour, was sentenced to two years in a Georgia penitentiary for trafficking in margarine in 1916.

In terms of market controls, a fascinating bit of history surrounds the invention of margarine. Emperor Louis Napoleon III offered a prize to the first person to create a butter substitute, a prize won by Frenchman Hippolyte Mège-Mouriez, who created margarine in 1870.

American dairy farmers were quick to sense the threat and pushed for multiple laws to protect their markets. The exhibit features a collection of early postcards handed out to dairy farmers to mail in to their Congressmen to push for the legislation. In 1886 Congress passed the Margarine Act, raising the price of the butter substitute through taxes and licensing until it was equal to that of butter.

There was also a tax on colored margarine, so that butter-look-alikes were more expensive. In some states margarine wasn't allowed to be colored at all. The exhibit features mug shots of butter traffickers, including this one, for John Seymour, in 1916. His crime was for selling back alley, untaxed margarine, for which he was sentenced to two years in the Georgia state penitentiary.

Federal margarine taxes were repealed in 1960. Wisconsin was the last state to repeal restrictions on margarine, in 1967.

If gun-free is so wonderful why do prisons have higher rape, assault and murder rates than the outside population? Do you suppose that a population with a high concentration that of convicted criminals might find the subset of "nasty bastards" to be over represented?

[TPaine7]

4. You are confused, Hoyt

I love the last paragraph of her column:

Final facts to ponder: A group called Students for Concealed Carry on Campus reports that over 70 American campuses currently allow licensed guns. There hasn't been a single reported instance of shoot-outs, accidents or heated confrontations with a gun involved at any of them. In fact, statistics show the crime rate at Colorado State University has gone steadily down since concealed carry was enacted.

She deals in dangerous things that you and others like you dread--cold, hard facts. And not anecdotal, anomalous, exceptional factual accounts intended to give a false impression of reality but statistical facts that are directly on point. Terrifying, isn't it?

And unfortunately for you, Diane is not only a journalist who is interested in facts, she can actually be swayed by them. She was mocking people like you with sarcasm (as shown in her reply to a commenter):

HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Diane Dimond
Journalist/Author/Columnist- DianeDimond.com
802 Fans
 
11:45 AM on 3/04/2011
Dear Leo:
The phrase "Tra-lah-l ah" after my comment about melting down all the guns in the world should probably have given you a clue that I was being sarcastic. Such a thing is not realistic and I make it a point to say that.
We are in agreement and your example of the atmosphere inside a penitentia ry is a good one~ DD

Like sensible people everywhere, she realizes that your pipe-dream is laughable. Eventually, there will be no safe haven for anti-gun hysteria and extremism in mainstream liberal publications. The sun is setting on knee jerk anti-gun fanaticism.

[oneshooter]

5. + 1000 n/t

[Hoyt]

14. Agreed it is unrealistic. Gunners would pitch a bitch if they had to face life without their guns.

[gejohnston]

16. Oh I don't know

I did not have mine most of my Air Force time. The Japanese, Korean, and Philippines governments would not have had a sense of humor.

[Hoyt]

17. Too bad you couldn't continue to enjoy life here without carrying a gun.

[gejohnston]

19. I did occasionally carry a full auto

assault rifle (M-16A2) (I learned my arms are too short for firing in the prone position with 30 round magazines)
As for a pistol in civilian life, I don't carry. Mostly because I never felt like getting a CCW, partly because I spend most of my time on college campuses or home.

[Hoyt]

22. Good to hear. Have a good gun free day.

[Dr. Strange]

29. So would cops.

[rl6214]

9. She sounds just like you...

[Hoyt]

18. Actually lots of people do -- and a lot more will when they realize what is going on with guns

in every corner of our society.

[gravity556]

30. You melt yours down first. Then I promise I'll think about melting mine down.

But I want a contract stating that in the event of my demise due to an illegal gun not melted down by the criminal element who ignores the fucking laws anyhow, that you will personally assure the safety of my family. Should one of them be hurt, you are to be hanged. Fair? Come on, put your neck where your mouth is-if you're right and the criminals will shamefacedly melt their guns down, you've nothing to worry about. If you're wrong, well, best hope you never need to dance a jig at the end of a rope.

Everyone needs to put some skin in the game, hoyt. Come on, be a team player.

[beevul]

10. Set the example Hoyt.

Take those guns of YOURS and melt them down.


Have you ever tried...not being a hypocrite?

[beevul]

23. And you say that as a gun owner yourself.

Hypocrite.

[TPaine7]

6. I think you may have misread the column. It seems to me that it is

fairly well balanced. She may not like guns, but she can see both sides of the debate and she does cite the devastating statistical evidence against the hysterical position.

She wishes there was no need for guns. So do I. So, I suspect, do you.

[spin]

8. Every citizen in this nation, Democrat, Republican or Independent ...

pro gun or anti gun should be infuriated when agencies of our government basically give criminals firearms to use to rob, rape and pillage.

True, most of the deaths and injuries so far have occurred in Mexico but unnecessary Mexican deaths should be considered as just as important as American deaths when caused by weapons our government allowed to "walk".

The end does not justify the means.

edited for typo

[socialindependocrat]

12. Personally, I like drones...

If the U.S. and Mexico were serious about the cartells they would use drones...

or are they all in the Middle East??

[gejohnston]

15. which drones?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_MQ-1_Predator

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AeroVironment_RQ-11_Raven

Hey, one of my old units has them now. When I was with them, they were flying RF-4Cs on Okinawa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15th_Reconnaissance_Squadron

[chrisa]

25. I don't agree with her views on guns, but everybody who took part

in Fast and Furious should be in jail.