Norway's Challenge (bizarre editorial appearing on JPost)

[shaayecanaan]

"Europe's fringe right-wing extremists present a real danger to society. But Oslo’s devastating tragedy should not be allowed to be manipulated by those who would cover up the abject failure of multiculturalism."

The cold-blooded calculation of the Norway tragedy boggles the mind. For over an hour, Anders Behring Breivik, 32, dressed as a police officer and armed with a rifle and a hand gun, prowled Utoeya, a tiny forested holiday island a few dozen kilometers from Oslo, calmly massacring teenagers.

The youngsters had been attending the annual summer camp for the youth wing of Norway’s ruling Labor party.

As Israelis, a people that is sadly all too familiar with the horrors of indiscriminate, murderous terrorism, our hearts go out with empathy to the Norwegian people, who perhaps more than any other nation symbolize the unswerving – and sometimes naïve – pursuit of peace.

Oslo is the namesake of one of the most ambitious – and misguided – attempts by Israel, under the mediation of the Norwegians, to reach a peace accord with our Palestinian neighbors.

(snip)

Perhaps Brievik’s inexcusable act of vicious terror should serve not only as a warning that there may be more elements on the extreme Right willing to use violence to further their goals, but also as an opportunity to seriously reevaluate policies for immigrant integration in Norway and elsewhere. While there is absolutely no justification for the sort of heinous act perpetrated this weekend in Norway, discontent with multiculturalism’s failure must not be delegitimatized or mistakenly portrayed as an opinion held by only the most extremist elements of the Right.

Britain’s Prime Minister David Cameron and Germany’s Chancellor Angela Merkel have both recently lamented the “failure of multiculturalism” in their respective countries.

(snip)

The challenge for Norway in particular and for Europe as a whole, where the Muslim population is expected to account for 8% of the population by 2030 according to a Pew Research Center, is to strike the right balance. Fostering an open society untainted by xenophobia or racism should go hand in hand with protection of unique European culture and values.

Europe’s fringe right-wing extremists present a real danger to society. But Oslo’s devastating tragedy should not be allowed to be manipulated by those who would cover up the abject failure of multiculturalism.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Editorials/Article.aspx?id=230788

The editor-in-chief adds: As a newspaper, The Jerusalem Post strongly denounces all acts of violence against innocent civilians. This editorial is not aimed at deflecting attention from the horrific massacre perpetuated in Norway, nor the need to take greater precautions against extremists from all sides.

******************************

Some speculate that the editorial was penned by Caroline Glick, who supports Pam Geller and other figures on the far right:-

http://972mag.com/brievik-184027-72011/

[virgogal]

1. .

[no_hypocrisy]

2. This editorial fails to see the irony of history repeating itself.

I was taught growing up that you have a duty to defend those who are attacked and persecuted. No matter who.

Can't get over the bending backwards to rationalize justification. No wonder Glenn Beck feels so at home in Israel.

[whosinpower]

3. They never should of posted such drivel

Desperately trying to parse INTOLERANCE for multiculturalism as something to pursue.

Beyond pathetic.

The actions of Breivik were deplorable - period. His fantasy "manifesto" is bunk. He is a pathetic loser whose insights are an assault to humanity. He is a cold blooded psychopathic narcissistic ego maniac who deliberately killed innocent CHILDREN in a calculated way in order to "get his message" out. Fuck you - Breivik and all your mindless soulless rantings on your so called manifesto - and the horse it rode in on.

AND, for whomever to rise up and take the mantle of his ravings trying to JUSTIFY it - may you forever be haunted by norwegian children screaming as they are hunted down and shot.

Jerusalem Post made a serious mistake here. The LAST thing Israel needs is for wingnuts to tie Israel to Breivik - and this so called commentator did just that.

edited for spelling.

[Jefferson23]

4. Someone needs to work on cloaking it better, for crying out loud:

"...be manipulated by those who would cover up the abject failure of multiculturalism."

and here: .."also as an opportunity to seriously reevaluate policies for immigrant integration in Norway and elsewhere. While there is absolutely no justification for the sort of heinous act perpetrated this weekend in Norway, discontent with multiculturalism’s failure must not be delegitimatized or mistakenly portrayed as an opinion held by only the most extremist elements of the Right.

[shaayecanaan]

6. My favourite part was this...

"Fostering an open society untainted by xenophobia or racism should go hand in hand with protection of unique European culture and values."

Whoever thought that 50 years on, Israel's leading paper would be urging the Europeans to protect their unique culture and values?

Of course, by the time Norway's Muslim population is at 8%, Israel's will be at 30%. So if Europe is going down the tube...

[oberliner]

8. Israel's leading paper?

The Jerusalem Post? Are you kidding?

[LeftishBrit]

10. I agree on the irony of such a statement; but as Oberliner says, the JP is hardly Israel's leading

newspaper.

It has an estimated circulation of 30,000, less than half that of Ha'aretz, and overwhelmingly less than Yediot Ahranot or Ma'ariv.

[Ken Burch]

12. Interesting. I had no idea the JP's circulation was that small

It's possible that the OP thought it was Israel's leading paper because it's the largest English-language paper there. It's also where Wolf Blitzer used to be employed before he joined CNN.

[oberliner]

17. There is a Russian-language paper that has a higher circulation in Israel

The leading papers in Israel, however, are in Hebrew - or at the very least, have a Hebrew version, which the Jerusalem Post does not.

Even the English version of Ynet online is more popular than Jpost online so I'm not sure if they can even make a claim about about being the largest English-language paper anymore if the web counts for anything.

But in any case, it is by no means any kind of "leading paper" in Israel.

I wonder how many people on this board have ever actually been to Israel.

[King_David]

33. 'I wonder how many people on this board have ever actually been to Israel.'

I have been many times.

Including once on 'Birthright" ,which is a wonderful program.

My 2 kids will definitely be encouraged to take their free trip.

[shaayecanaan]

37. Ive been twice...

both short trips. It was okay the first time but by the second time things were too expensive, the customer service in Israel is shithouse, and there's not an awful lot to do other than spend a day in Jerusalem and maybe have a night out in Tel Aviv before your flight out.

I went straight to Croatia after that and had probably the week of my life, so I suppose anything would pale in comparison to that.

[King_David]

38. Would love to go to Croatia

Heard you got to go in Summer.

[shaayecanaan]

40. bloody fantastic it was

the islands were amazing, the beaches were amazing, the fact that every girl on the beach had her top off was amazing. i had one of those holiday romances fall into my lap during my time there, and lest you think i am bragging i dutifully confess that nothing of the like has ever happened fore or since.

admittedly this chance encounter may have enhanced croatia's standing in my eyes somewhat but it is nevertheless a marvellous place.

[King_David]

45. OK now I am sold

Just need a good reason.

Like a conference or something.

[Violet_Crumble]

13. It is the leading English language newspaper in Israel...

They could possibly be self-promoting in saying so, but that's what they say about themselves, and from what I've seen when I took a look, there's a vast difference in the readership numbers of Hebrew and English language papers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jerusalem_Post

[oberliner]

16. Which makes it not at all popular in Israel

There is a Russian-language newspaper, Vesti, which has a greater circulation in Israel than the Jerusalem Post.

[Violet_Crumble]

44. I've always thought JPost was aimed at an American audience...

Regardless of its audience, that was a really revolting and repugnant editorial, imo...

[Jefferson23]

14. Yea, protecting unique European culture and values, I guess we're

lucking he/she spared us the details of the actions that would be necessary to ensure this protection.


I'm reading responses to your reference to JPost as Israel's leading paper being inaccurate, that seems irrelevant
for the most part, as I believe your point is that JPost is a respected publication and that would be true. JPost does not seem to be identified
as a right wing paper, but one that did move to the center from the left.

I don't put a lot of stock in labels of right and left, they don't tell you much about the content of a position, not really. Yet how
the author found a home for this OP is a story in itself.



snip* The Jerusalem Post is an Israeli daily English-language broadsheet newspaper, founded on December 1, 1932 by Gershon Agron as The Palestine Post. While the daily readership numbers (tens of thousands) do not approach those of the major Hebrew newspapers, the Jerusalem Post has a much broader reach than these other newspapers in that its readership comprises Israeli politicians, foreign journalists, and tourists, and it is also distributed worldwide.<3> While it was once regarded as left-wing, the paper underwent a noticeable shift to the right in the late 1980s.<4> Since 2004, under the editorial leadership of Editor-in-Chief Bret Stephens and Executive Editor Amotz Asa-El, the paper has moved to the center, when they decided with Opinion Editor Saul Singer to back Ariel Sharon's plan to withdraw from Gaza. The shift to the center continued under Editor-in-Chief David Horovitz, for instance when he advocated the privatization of Israeli religious institutions.

The Post features columns and opinion articles spanning the political spectrum, from Caroline Glick on the right to Larry Derfner on the left. On the economy, the Post has been consistently conservative since 1995, when Amotz Asa-El joined as Business Editor and advocated, both in the paper's edtorials and in his column, fiscal and monetary discipline, currency liberalization, low taxation, low tariffs, privatization, competition, and small government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Post

[shaayecanaan]

18. You get a fair bit of proof reading on this forum...

I remember getting pulled up on the fact that Belize is in North America, and not South America as I stated. I can't even remember if and how that was significant.

Nothing in it, of course. We're all good liberals here.

[oberliner]

20. Have you not done the same?

I recall you provided corrective information, for example, with respect to the Daily Star of Lebanon.

[shaayecanaan]

34. I thought that particular tidbit was relevant

inasmuch as the fact that the Daily Star is half-owned by Hariri means that its coverage of his activities tends to be somewhat rose-coloured.

[oberliner]

36. I think it was too

I also think pointing out that JPost is not widely read in Israel is also relevant - especially in light of your comment.

[shaayecanaan]

41. It was a general observation...

and not merely confined to the instance at hand. The example I gave a few posts above struck me as a particularly bad example of mindless pedantry.

[oberliner]

19. Your Wikipedia excerpt cites a 20 year-old NY Times article

The claim that "the Jerusalem Post has a much broader reach than these other newspapers in that its readership comprises Israeli politicians, foreign journalists, and tourists, and it is also distributed worldwide" which is included in the Wikipedia article you cited dates to a 1990 article in the NY Times that predates, among other things, the now commonplace use of the internet as a source of news and information.

Goes a long way to showing how those who rely on that site are often provided with misleading or outdated information.

People have got to stop blindly relying on Wikipedia without taking the time to actually look at the articles and the sources being used.

JPost is not a "respected publication" in Israel and it is certainly not a "leading newspaper".

The circulation is somewhere around 12,000 in a country with a population of over 7 million.

Virtually no one in Israel reads it.

[Jefferson23]

21. I think you have a poor interpretation of the use of wiki in general

and especially used here..but whatever. JPost is not respected nor read in the US? It is used here
consistently, that is the point. JPost is read online, you have a figure of how many ignore it
as a source?

As I already stated to the poster, it is irrelevant imo whether the publication is a leading paper,
that the OP found a home at JPost is and should be a concern. Unless you have something to support
that it is the equivalent to FrontPage Magazine, your point is moot as far as I'm concerned.

I think you're splitting hairs on a subject and a weak one at that.

[oberliner]

22. You are the one who presented it as some sort of authority

I argue that it is often riddled with very poor citations (to say the least). I do not believe that the information contained therein can generally be introduced into a discussion as being any sort of confirming source material.

My only contention is with the claim that JPost is "Israel's leading newspaper" - this is a statement that I assert is false.

You are suggesting that the point isn't relevant, but the poster to whom I was initially directing my comment about JPost made a point of noting how surprised he was that Israel's "leading newspaper" would present an editorial such as this one.

I just wanted to clarify that it is, in fact, not Israel's leading newspaper.

In any case, this is certainly more than enough on this topic - though I do think people who are less familiar with Israel may be confused about various sources (such as those who think "Israel National News" is some sort of Israeli state news service or something) and so it's never a bad idea to try to correct misinformation.

[Jefferson23]

23. It wasn't presented as an authority, a reference, which holds up fine. Your contention

went further than disputing the claim of leading newspaper, or you would not have bothered
to respond to my post. I had already relayed, imo, that was not irrelevant, the poster's greater
point I believe was it is a respected publication. JPost is not referred to as a tabloid rag, and I have
seen no evidence the poster was speaking about what is read exclusively in Israel, thus I found
your contribution, hair splitting.

I must have missed something, as I do not recall any mention by myself nor the other poster about
Israel National News..never mind any confusion about its function.

[oberliner]

24. It doesn't hold up at all

The central element of the excerpt you posted is lifted from a 1990 NY Times article whose relevance is questionable to say the least. It is odd that said article is relied upon as source material in light of the fact that the news landscape has changed dramatically over the past twenty years. The entire passage ought to be excised and replaced with something more relevant. Therein, however, lies part of the problem with Wikipedia - if no one feels like putting in the effort (or has the expertise) than one is left with shoddy, often inaccurate, articles that no one bothers (or is qualified) to clean up.

And, yes you did miss something clearly, as at no point did I say that anyone in this thread mentioned Israel National News. It was an illustrative example in support of the argument that there is sometimes confusion over sources - so why not make the correction when the opportunity arises (as others have done, helpfully, in the past with respect to Israel National News).

If someone had referred to a news source as Lebanon's leading newspaper, and the truth was far from that, I am quite confident that the poster in question would have made the necessary correction.

[Jefferson23]

25. The central element is that JPost is not considered a tabloid rag.

Also, the article you're referencing speaks to a shift that took place, to the right, editorially.

Your illustrative filler was unnecessary and the concern about the OP is that it found
a home within JPost. Again, if you have a source that supports that JPost is considered irrelevant
trash not used here consistently or in Israel as an online reference, please post such support.

It appears you are looking to put distance between the OP's content and the audience you
believe would not embrace it on some level but over focusing on "leading" newspaper.

[oberliner]

26. I never made any claim that it was a tabloid rag

Nor that it is "irrelevant trash" or any of those other things you mentioned.

My only claim is that it is not Israel's leading newspaper.

If folks could have just accepted that and moved on we would not be having this silly disagreement.

Edit to add:

It's not like I randomly responded to the OP by saying "ignore this article, it's from the Jerusalem Post".

It was a different commenter who made a point of noting (incorrectly) that "Israel's leading newspaper" was running this editorial (suggesting that the prominence of the newspaper was significant in some way).

All I did was attempt to correct that piece of misinformation.

[Jefferson23]

27. You are well aware that you were not told that was your claim.

Your response would have been reasonable imo if you had not responded to mine, which was not
disputing the "leading newspaper" you corrected. The significance of his post rests in the fact that JPost
is not a RW rag which most find without reliability in reporting, regardless of its lack of domination as
published in Israel. Yet JPost went to print with it and as I stated to him in my first response, that
is in itself a story.

That is my take on it, and why I found your focus, hairsplitting.



I think we can at least agree that we're done here.

[azurnoir]

28. ever see Thank You for Smoking? The same debate technique

is being used, it would seem

[oberliner]

29. The claim is solid - you are free to your other opinions

JPost is not a leading newspaper. I think I have gotten you to agree to that finally. So my work is finished here.

[azurnoir]

30. Actually I have seen many newspapers claim that, none seem to claim to be #2 or 3

but why is it that unimportant minutia is so accentuated? it could appear in some to be a deflection?

[oberliner]

31. That's why one can check subscription figures or internet web traffic

That way you can authentic the claim.

[azurnoir]

32. but still IMO that is minutia unimportant

and it could seem a means of deflection

[oberliner]

35. Ok - but I'm not sure what is being deflected

Is there anything in the OP really worth talking about?

I can't even imagine why RW garbage like that would be posted here.

[azurnoir]

39. you feel nothing in the OP is worthy of discussion ?

is that why the sub-thread dedicated to JPosts popularity? okay then

[oberliner]

42. Definitely not

I don't come to DU to discuss right wing editorials.

Aren't there other sites for that sort of thing?

[azurnoir]

43. we see things that are IMO rather right wing posted on this forum rather frequently

IMO we should be free to discuss all political aspects on this subject

[whosinpower]

5. And one more thing

This writer - did not even have the ballz to pen in their name.

A coward too.

But, it does have the feel of Glick, and if it was, may she rot for it.

[Violet_Crumble]

7. That's a revolting editorial n/t

[azurnoir]

9. Considering current events concerning Israel and Palestine this

rejection of multiculturalism could be quite troubling or revealing

[LeftishBrit]

11. I never cease to be shocked by the sheer nastiness of a lot of journalists...

Apart from the nasty xenophobic politics promoted here, it is a very hurtful insult to the young people who were so viciously murdered.

As you'll know, British tabloid journalism, and some journalism outside the tabloids, is very nasty indeed, a powerful force for bigotry of all sorts, and thoroughly corrupt (HUGE scandal going on at the moment). Seems to be the same the world over.

[bemildred]

15. Ms Glick is not usually so restrained.

I agree that it's the sort of "reasoning" that makes you dumber after reading it. The writers fear that Breivik will give xenophobes a bad name speaks for itself, xenophobia well deserves its bad name.