Why don't some people want to believe in the 'heroes" of Flight 93

[Beaverhausen]

Even if the military shot the plane down there is still a lot of proof that the passengers and crew at least attempted to take over the plane or crash it before it's target.

Why is it so many people just don't want to believe that? I would like to think that I would do the same in that situation.

[MadHound]

1. I think that the whole thing against the upcoming movie

Isn't disrespecting those passengers so much as being pissed that we're getting another Rah-Rah piece of Bushco propaganda shoved down our throat.

And quite frankly there are still so many questions about 911 and Flight 93 that I don't think they'll ever be able to make the definitive picture regarding that particular incident.

I find this film to me nothing more than propagandist pabulum, and I won't be watching it in the theatre or on DVD.

[NYCGirl]

7. You might want to read this review from a LIBERAL publication:

http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/review/2006/04/26/united_93/

It sounds like a remarkable film — although I feel like the reviewer, I really can't bring myself to see it.

[elehhhhna]

48. Houston Press also gave it a good review but nope, sorry, not going.

[Bridget Burke]

51. And the Houston Press review....

Noted that the inaction of certain governmental folks was noticed on that day.

[elehhhhna]

88. Yes it did, and that fact surprised moi

[NYCGirl]

54. I'm not going either, because I don't think I can deal with it. I was

standing on the corner of 17th St. and 5th Avenue when I saw the second tower fall. I will never forget the sounds of the crowd around me seeing the sight.

[JuniperLea]

103. You poor dear!

I can't imagine... my mind won't let me go there.

My boss was scheduled to fly out on the 11th for meetings in one of the towers on the 12th. A colleague of ours at Pine and Wall had to walk home... to Brooklyn... all the while unable to reach her five-year-old son...

What all you New Yorkers went through that day and the months (and years) that followed shouldn't happen to anyone.


Edited to say... I'm not going either.

[LostinVA]

107. My Dad was on a plane from Miami to Charlotte -- in the air -- then

No one knew where he was for hours... if he was dead or alive. My sister was living in Germany then, and there was a total communication lock down on base. She had no idea if he was okay for almost a day.

I was standing in front of a TV at work, calling my mom every five minutes, watching the Towers fall...

[wicket]

115. Wow, just wow

:hug:

[LostinVA]

106. I won't watch it for years, but I think it sounds like a remarkable film

His "Bloody Sunday" was very difficult to watch, and that was set in 1972 Ireland...

[LiberalVoice]

133. I'll watch it...

just to see how the event is depicted but I certainly wont pay for it.

On edit: If its propoganda I wont. I just dont see how it cannot be bullshit considering no one knows what happened on that plane.

[LostinVA]

105. I trust Paul Greengrass -- his "Bloody Sunday" was excellent

And this movie looks like the same vein. "Bloody Sunday" was gritty and real and unsentimental.... the Bushies have nothing to do with this movie, and sure as hell wouldn't choose an anti-Establishment guy like Greengrass to write and direct it.

I read today he doesn't touch on things that are completely unknown.

[Hobarticus]

132. Me too – "Bloody Sunday" was terrific

I'll take his word for it.

[LiberalVoice]

2. What proof?

What proof is it you're talking about that suggests the passengers tried storming the cockpit?

[mdmc]

12. i love that pic of Dean

[LiberalVoice]

13. Thanks...

I took it myself :P

[mdmc]

19. lol

:)

[misanthrope]

101. Good eye!**nm

*

[Waya]

18. Exactly....

...what proof? The 'official' story is not proof.

[LiberalVoice]

22. In fact...

The 'official' story is in direct contradiction to the facts.

[Skip Intro]

3. Hard to know what to believe, isn't it?

Concerning 9*11 and any official story from the regime, I'm skeptical.

[FloridaPat]

4. Notice that all but one phone call from all the fights that day did not

talk to someone they knew. Cell phones don't work above 2500 to 3000 feet. Phone calls on the plane phones which are $5 a minute(something like that) never showed up on credit card bills. Too many questions and not enough answers.

[Beaverhausen]

6. I heard that 35 calls were made from the plane to people they knew

[librechik]

11. I believe this is a number contributed by the 9/11 commission

and i have never seen evidential confirmation of it, despite all the anomalies you mention. The cell phone issue is very unsettled, IMO.

[FloridaPat]

14. I hadn't heard the updated number. Will have to look into that. Thanks

[malaise]

32. A cell phone expert told me that in 2001

and I have ignored the official story since then.

[katty]

76. that's right...so many, many holes in the tragic 9-11 "story"

[slybacon9]

5. Why do some people need to believe that flight even existed?

is it that we just want/need so desperately to believe that there was one shred of evidence that americans were anything but helpless victims that day?

or is it that without those cellphone calls everything we might consider reality is false.



there is just as much proof that it never even happened at all.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801&q=loose+change

[cali]

8. Because some people have brains that are hard wired

to believe in conspiracies, and some people are wired more toward the Occam's razor way of thinking.

[stillcool]

9. faith-based evidence...

only works when no one questions it.

Few of us can easily surrender our belief that society must somehow make sense. The thought that the state has lost its mind and is punishing so many innocent people is intolerable. And so the evidence has to be internally denied.”– Arthur Miller, playwright

[dogman]

10. Because we have a made for TV government.

Tillman, Lynch, shock and awe. The list goes on.

[johnnie]

15. My thoughts

I think that the people did rush the cockpit and tried to do something. I don't think they had a chance to do it though and the plane was shot down. My problem with the hero story is that it was used by this administration for their own agenda and with almost a disgraceful amount of enthusiasm.

I am almost certain the plane was shot down so I don't think that the lives of those passengers should be used to cover up lies.

[Beaverhausen]

20. I like your answer

I pretty much agree with everything you said.

I too am worried about the pro-Bush backlash of the film coming out.

It's sad that these people who went through hell for the last 45 minutes of their lives are being used as pawns.

[johnnie]

24. Here's the thing

I hate putting this here, but I was told shortly after 9/11 by someone very close to it all that the plane was shot down. A few weeks later the person said he didn't remember telling me that, but he was sort of "quick" with me on it. I have no reason to believe he just made that up when I first talked to him. So after that it was strange to hear the "official" story.

[LostinVA]

108. I think it will be an anti-Bush backlash

Seriously... I';m going by Greengrass' other film, Bloody Sunday, which is very anti-Establishment, very much anti the "official" line. OBL is still running around, the Taliban are back in power, and boys (and girls) are dying every week in Iraq. I do NOT think this will be part of a Bush trifecta. Seriously.

And, I do believe the plane may have been shot down, but I also believe the passengers were brave that day, and went out fighting. And,m many people called their love ones, although many [passengers got voice mail because of the time.

[stanwyck]

37. Agree. It's the disgraceful

"re-interpretation" into the Bushian flag waving nationalism which is disgusting. It doesn't honor those people. It just uses them as props for Bush's vainglorious selfishness.

[etherealtruth]

41. Thanks ...

You expressed my feelings clearly and concisely (better than I could have :P )

[smb]

127. Huh?

I think that the people did rush the cockpit and tried to do something. I don't think they had a chance to do it though and the plane was shot down.

Look up "Occam's Razor" (Hint: It's not the name of the brand of box cutter used by the terrorists.)

[johnnie]

129. Ok, I looked it up

Huh?


I honestly don't know what went on inside the plane, but at this point I believe it was shot down.

[jukes]

16. this is just MY take

and i honestly haven't reviewed the incident in a long time, but it just came across as too "feel-goody" & propaganda-like. that was the alleged "let's roll" incident, right?

it just smelled to me of jingoistic wishful-thinking. like the plot of a ronald reagan movie...

[NYCGirl]

26. According to the reviews I've read so far, the "let's roll incident" is

barely shown — it occurs in the background of a scene.

[jukes]

35. i prbly misunderestimated the question

and shdn't have responded at all. i wasn't aware a "film" had been made y was distributed. i was responding to the original news releases in the days following.

[SoCalDem]

84. and on the tapes I heard , the words were "Roll it..roll it"

as in people frantically trying to roll the super heavy beverage cart into the locked cockpit door.. We all know how cramped the aisles are there, and there might have been bodies in the way.. Maybe they were trying to roll the cart over the bodies and into the door..

We will never know "for sure"..but I knew the "Let's Roll" line was a salve to a grieving widow.. to tell her how brave her husband was in his final minutes.. something to hang onto when she thought about him..

[Jara sang]

57. The crash site is the only federally mandated memorial to 9/11.

http://www.nps.gov/flni/index.htm

And that happened like quick, like months after 9/11. I remember thinking that was too fast. One other note, only family members are aloud to visit the actual impact site at the memeorial. What is up with that?

http://www.flight93memorialproject.org/memorial.asp

"The crash site itself, located about 500 yards south of the temporary memorial, is accessible only to family members of those killed on Flight 93. Somerset County Sheriff’s deputies are on duty at the site 24 hours per day."

[havocmom]

17. Sure hope a young man my daughter worked with believes in heroes

on that flight.

They worked at Mileage Plus, the company that handles United's Frequent Flier accounts. Young man had a customer who did not have quite enough points racked up but really needed to be on that flight. The reps are allowed some leeway in letting things by, so the 19 year old at the call center jumped some hurdles for his customer and got him a ticket on that flight, for the day he needed it.

After the morning of 9-11, my daughter noticed one young man at the office was ESPECIALLY frantic and upset. All were shaken, of course, and many knew people who were in Tower 7. But this one kid, he was a real wreck. She chatted him up and he told her the story. She said he was blaming himself for his customer dying on that flight. She let him vent and then offered that perhaps, just perhaps, the man he pulled strings to get a ticket for was among those who stood up to the hijackers. Just maybe he had made sure there was a hero on Flight 93.

I am of a MIHOP sort of mind about that day, but Flight 93 is a part of the puzzle I have not sorted out. A plane did go down, one way or another. For the sake of a kid that was just trying to take care of a customer, I hope that young call center rep entertains the possibility that there are heroes in this life. We never fully understand all the ramifications of what we do for others. Sometimes we are the ones who help heroes be where they need to be.

[renate]

25. what a sad story

Well, of course the whole thing is awful in three thousand ways. But this is very poignant. I hope the kid--now 23 or 24, after all--realizes that he has nothing to blame himself for.

[havocmom]

28. Me too. That call center closes its doors for the last time tomorrow

Outsourced...

I truly do think of that young man often and hope he is strong and OK.

[ronnykmarshall]

91. Thanks for that story.

I hope that guy has found peace with this.

9/11 effected all of us. Some in a very personal way like those who were either in NYC, DC or PA .... others like this young man and the woman GTE operator that spoke to Mr. Bingham in flight 93.

When my mom went to NYC and saw ground zero, it had a different effect on her as it did me. I had been to the WTC in 2000 before the attack it was probably the highlight of my trip (with the exception of all the hot gay guys). See the towers gone for the first time in person ..... I lost it. I kept thinking about what terror the people on the planes and in the towers went through.

My said she broke down and cried not just for the people that died. But she said what really tore her up was thinking about the people that saw it happen. The fear and horror of seeing the towers hit and then collapse.

I'm not going to see "United 93". I saw a TV version and that was about enough for me. I'm not a big tin foil hat type, but I also can tell propaganda when I see it.

I don't know what "really" happened on that airplane. All I know is this. They died a horrible death and it makes me sick to imagine what their last hours were like. It also makes me sick when I hear all these back and forth arguments about if people made calls or not. Sorry, I can't see family members that had loved ones die on that plane lie about phones call.

Pull out of the Reynolds Wrap you want, I don't buy it.

[lectrobyte]

21. I don't know that folks don't want to believe. I'd rather just focus on

holding the feet to the fire of those who ignored reports about strange flight training incidents, "Bin Laden determined to attack", etc.

[Dr Fate]

23. Private Lynch and Pat Tildon were called heroes too...

Too bad the stories were fake.

Skepticism is the best policy these days.

[michael_1166]

27. Because there's no plane wreckage in Shanksville in the first place

- just a hole in the ground.





No plane, no heroes.
'nuff said, don't you think?

[Beaverhausen]

29. Right. so where do you think the plane is?

I can't wait to hear this.

[michael_1166]

34. This is not about what I think

this is about what I - what everyone - can see with their own eyes.

I don't know where the plane is. But it's not there! Do you see it?

[Beaverhausen]

36. I believe I have seen pieces of it in an overhead shot of a wide area

and you must have some idea of what you think they did with the plane if you don't think that it was shot down there in PA. Come on...let's hear it.

[michael_1166]

70. My theory?

My theory is just another tinfoil hat theory. No one knows the truth yet, so it's all just speculation. Make up your own theory, mine would probably get deleted here.

But there are things about 9/11 that can't be denied - for example, if it's the White House tinfoil hat theory against the application of the law of gravity (amount of time it took for the towers to collapse - exactly freefall speed), I know on whose side the truth is.

Regarding Flight 93, I googled some links for you:

http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/flight93.html
http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=323
http://cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&day_of_9/11=ua93

[rman]

125. Point is the official story doesn't add up

The fact that those who point the fact that it doesn't add up don't know what did happen, doesn't mean the official story is any more credible.

The plane was not shot down according to the offical story. It seems you don't care whether it was shot down or crashed - it seems you don't care whether or not the government is lying about that. Weird.

[ronnykmarshall]

92. You beat me to that question.

I'm looking forward to this.

[LostinVA]

110. Me either...

[havocmom]

31. Parts scattered hither & yon from a blast from a fighter?

Still doesn't preclude heroes.

[Jazz2006]

128. I don't know about that....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x84344#84549

Not to mention

http://www.rcfp.org/moussaoui/

[Pastiche423]

30. Why?

Because absolutely no proof and/or evidence has been presented to the public that Flight 93 went down that way.

If I have missed it, please provide a link.

[stanwyck]

33. The Bushies appropriate other people's heroism

as their own. Bush talks as though he is one of the young soldiers in Iraq. He's not. He didn't show up for his Guard training. Bush says "Let's Roll." Not his words. Bush says "Mission Accomplished". It wasn't and he has not accomplished much -- he hasn't "smoked out" Bin Laden. He hasn't found WMD in Iraq. And the Iraqi oil is NOT paying for the war as he claimed.
He hasn't "gotten to the bottom of who leaked Plame's name to the press" -- as he proclaimed he would do.
So. We're jaded. This isn't fair to the brave people who tried to stop the hijackers.
It's just that we fear that once again, after Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman, that the Bushies are up to their old propaganda tricks.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me a hundred times....

[elehhhhna]

52. You said it best so far, stanwyck

[Lisa]

38. I'm puzzled by how Bush repeatedly said the passengers crashed the plane

Even the evidence from the transcript pointed to the passengers trying to get back control of the plane, because they didn't want to die (a major difference) -- and that the hijackers were the ones who decided to take it down.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/12/20021203-3.html
"These citizens took the plane into the ground to save lives, to serve something greater than themselves."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/11/20021104-7.html
"They took the plane into the ground to serve something greater than themselves in life."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/11/20021104-5.html
"They took the plane into the ground, to save lives, to serve something greater than themselves."

[mmonk]

39. I see no useful or good purpose

from the film, but I can see a bad purpose. Therefore, I will not see it.

[pitohui]

98. two bad purposes

bad purpose one -- to make $$$ off the death of people who would have probably rather have just gone on living their lives in peace

bad purpose two -- propaganda for the right wing and war-mongers

it is too soon for such a film, this smacks of a form of war profiteering to me

[LifeDuringWartime]

40. my feelings about this

are that this story clouds everything else that happened that day - namely that EVERYTHING failed. what is someone more likely to hear about on the news - how colossal the fuckups were, or how brave the people were on that flight? I'm not saying it didn't happen, but nobody really knows how or what happened.

[NYCGirl]

43. Why are the govt's fuckups and the passengers' bravery mutually exclusive?

From what I've heard, the film stresses both of these things. The director is no hack, BTW. He made a remarkable film called "Bloody Sunday."

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20021025/REVIEWS/210250303/1023

Edited to add: The director also wrote the film.

[Beaverhausen]

50. Did you see the guy who reviewed it on KO's show last night?

I hadn't wanted to see it until I saw his review. Now I'm thinking about it but still not sure.

[NYCGirl]

58. No, not yet. I have last night's KO on the TiVo though.

The reviews I've seen have been amazing, but I don't think I'm ready to see the film.

[riderinthestorm]

102. I heard a RW radio show where they really slammed the film

Because it shows the Admin's utter incompetence. It particularly spotlights *'s absence.

This host went on and on about how unfair the liberal Hollywood director was for showing all of this.

Caller after caller repeated that the film DID accurately portray what the Admin did and didn't do that day, which majorly annoyed the host. She wanted the film to be more "patriotic" and show the Admin in a more favorable light.

I haven't seen the movie. Won't either. Even the thought of seeing it (even after hearing the RW radio hosts blast the film for it's reality) fills me with dread and that's just the wrong emotion to feel when one is planning on which film to spend $10 on.

[LostinVA]

111. That's what I keep saying -- Greengrass is very anti-Establishment

Very anti the "official line." He's very unsentimental and also very gritty in his film making. He takes little artistic license on facts, and none on important facts. I think this will definitely NOT be BUsh propganda...

[LifeDuringWartime]

120. totally not what i was expecting!

perhaps i shall see it then.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

42. I Agree With That.

If people are to believe the military did in fact shoot it down (I'm still undecided on that one. Somedays I think absolutely, other days I think nahhhhh), then wouldn't it be logical that the only reason they needed to was BECAUSE the passengers were trying to gain control?

I do think the drama has been embellished a bit, but don't have any qualms with believing some on that plane absolutely tried to take the plane back.

[treestar]

44. Some people want evidence, not just belief

Victims are not heroes automatically. We'd all have done the same thing if we were there. The people on Flight 11 and Flight 77 could have been "heroes" too, had they known what was going on. They never had the chance.

Everyone at work in the world trade center who tried at least to get out is the same as someone on Flight 93.

I feel sorry for the victims, but it is not necessary to pretend someone is a "hero" just to feel sorry for him/her as a victim.

[Beaverhausen]

59. Some people won't believe any evidence

and of course I understand that. But I get the impression that people think the passengers just sat there and did nothing and I find that so strange. Would you?

[treestar]

69. No one has ever said that. Most of us would try to do something

It seems like they tried to do something. But people questioning some of it are not doing so only because they do not "want to believe" it.

It is never going to be provable exactly what happened, so we have to live with that most likely. Doesn't matter what we "want to believe."

[LostinVA]

113. Sorry, I've read the transcript and I believe what's on it

I have just as much right to that opinion as those on her that don't believe it. I don't trust our government at all, but I don't have to to believe that the passengers that day knew they were going to die, and at least wanted a fighting chance to live. And, if they couldn't live they would at least go out fighting. Believing that is NOT the same as believing the Administration's lies, or saying I know everything that ahppened that day. Too many people called too many family members nd friends that day while on the plane. This is my opinion., Believe whatever you want -- you have that right, but you don't have the right to call me, Beaverhausen, etc. chumps or whatever for believing it.

I've proven my street cred on here. You know I'm not a Freeper.

[Canuckistanian]

45. Um, Pat Tillman, Jessica Lynch, Operation Swarmer...

Blind belief in the press releases of this administration is sheer madness.

[NYCGirl]

47. But the administration didn't make this film. NT

[Media_Lies_Daily]

53. I bet they had quite a bit of input behind the scenes.

[NYCGirl]

55. If you've read anything about the writer/director or seen any interviews,

you'd know they didn't.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

64. I try to never judge a book by its cover. And I've been around....

...long enough to question everything I see and hear.

But, you're welcome to your own opinions.

[NYCGirl]

66. But you're already judging the film. NT

[Media_Lies_Daily]

72. Doesn't take much to recognize official NeoCon propaganda.

[NYCGirl]

73. I guess all those film critics are neocons (including Robert DeNiro, who

chose it to open the Tribeca Film Festival).

[Media_Lies_Daily]

79. You're making that statement, not me. Just curious, but who....

...do you think provided the source material for this movie?

[NYCGirl]

80. Read this for background:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/24/movies/24unit.html?fta=y

[Media_Lies_Daily]

82. No, thanks. I don't read fiction.

[ronnykmarshall]

93. hmmmmmm?

DeNiro, eh? Well, I for one NEVER trusted that man!! No sir're never did. Somethin' about him just set off my Con-dar. :sarcasm:

[LostinVA]

114. Zero -- Greengrass made it with much cooperation from

the passengers' families. Greengrass is an anti-Establishment guy. I don't want to see the movie -- maybe in a few years -- but if anyone can make this unsentimental, Greengrass can.

[Canuckistanian]

60. I'm sure it's a good film

I'm just concerned about the ratio of fact vs. fiction in this film. I know, I know, every Hollywood movie has some element of "truth augmentation"

Just whose sources did they use for the "facts"?

[NYCGirl]

65. Information here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/24/movies/24unit.html?fta=y

[Canuckistanian]

68. Thanks

Looks like this Greengrass was sensitive to the wishes and views of the family.

I hereby formally retract my original statement.

[Beaverhausen]

85. Excellent article

Thanks :hi:

[LostinVA]

117. Greengrass used the facts

FRom phone calls made from the plane. He freely admits he filled in action with information from relatives and friends on passengers' personalities. He sued facts on what the air traffic controllers and adm did that day. Like "Bloody Sunday," he didn't make up or distort anything "big."

Greenglass is as about as far from a NeoCon tool you can get.

Not everything known about that day is a lie, or straight from the Admin.

[KoKo]

46. Because what went on there has yet to be discovered for TRUTH! n/t

[Media_Lies_Daily]

49. Because "some people" have never bought the official NeoCon...

...explanation for the events of 911...people like myself.

And what evidence do you have that the passengers tried to take over the plane? And additionally, who's the source of that evidence?

[Beaverhausen]

56. Why don't you think passengers on a plane would try to overtake it?

This is what I'm asking. It seems some people just won't believe anything about it.

I am saying that, regardless of whether it was shot down or not, once the passengers figured out what was probably going to happen to them they took it upon themselves to do something.

If you were on a plane that was hijacked and heard that other planes had been hijacked and flown into buildings, would you just sit there or would you do something?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

62. You do something to attempt to save your own life

At the very least.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

71. I'm stating quite clearly that I don't believe anything the NeoCon...

...Junta has told us from Day One. I particularly don't accept the official story about the events of 911.

From the 911 timeline and the evidence available at the time of the impact into the Pennsylvania countryside, my opinion is that Flight 93 was shot down. The eight-mile trail of debris along the flight-path to the impact crater is a good indicator of an event taking place other than that described by the official version. The eyewitness accounts of people on the ground describe flames coming from the fuselage as it flew overhead...that is also another very good indicator of something being terribly wrong with the official version.

We've been told since Day One about the "heroic acts" of the passengers on Flight 93. But, we have seen several other purpoted "heroic" acts turn out to be lies fabricated by a NeoCon Junta desperate for heroes to distract Americans from the Junta's misdeeds.

But, hey, you're welcome to believe anything you want.

[ronnykmarshall]

94. and that whole remake of The Poseidon Adventure!

http://www2.warnerbros.com/poseidon/


Yeah, well. I mean this was made AFTER Shelley Winters' death. Hmmm?

[RagAss]

122. has anyone here made a cell phone call at 30,000 feet ???

[SemiCharmedQuark]

61. I don't have a problem with the passengers, I have a problem with the

marketing. "See it. Remember" Bullshit, like we can EVER forget. We're reminded on a daily basis.

[mmonk]

63. Lusitania, Maine, Pearl Harbor,

Gulf of Tonkin, 9/11.....

That's primarily why I don't want to support feeding the emotions of people at this dangerous time.

[Turbineguy]

67. To me, the fatal flaw in the conspiracy theories

is that the Bush Administration has time and time again shown its incompetence. If they had done this whole 911 thing, they would have blown it. If the military had shot the Flight 93 plane down, we would have known it by now.

In order to run such a vast and complex operation, hundreds of people, all of who would be picked for their political purity, not their their abilities, would have to have been involved.

The terrorists planned this operation. For them it was far simpler as they would not need to keep from getting caught. The hijackers got on the planes after discovering the holes in the security system. That's it.

The air traffic controllers did a marvelous job in bringing all the other planes to the ground safely. All the Firefighters and Police responded to the best of their abilities. And so did Bush. He kept reading "My Pet Goat" and then got on his plane to escape any further danger to himself.

[treestar]

74. I think you're right. That particular set of terrorists botched the

job, giving the passengers a slight chance. They still didn't make it. We can all feel sorry for them. It's the use of the drama to try to pat ourselves on the backs as "heroes" because we would presumably, like these people, at least make a run for it, that seems a little much like using them to justify our great national self pity. These were the only people who actually paid the price Al Qaeda exacted. And those who died in Iraq/Afghanistan.

Our self dramatizing attempt at a nation to try to pretend we are self sacrificing heroes "at war" when our lives in fact have changed very little, is what Hollywood is likely to try to exploit. They're using the for entertainment. We're using it for entertainment. There's no way this film could be educational. It's just meant to stir up those emotions. Which is what Hollywood always tries to do.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

75. "Hundreds of people" would have to have been involved??....

...All it takes are a few key people giving, or not giving, orders at critical points in time.

Conspiracies rarely involve more than a handful of people...you should know that by now.

[johnnie]

77. To add to your post

Many other people could be involved without even knowing they are.

What makes conspiracies work is manipulating certain information to make a conspiracy seem too far-fetched to be a conspiracy.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

81. Thanks. Additionally, whenever this kind of event takes place.....

...in other countries, their first question is "Who did it?", followed very quickly with "Who else was involved?".

The campaign in this country to ridicule the idea of a conspiracy of any kind has been very detrimental to uncovering the truth in a lot of high-level cases.

[johnnie]

87. But yet...

Did you see how easy many Americans believed this administration when they said that Osama, Saddam, the Iraqis, the Iranians the Taliban and thousands of others were involved with the conspiracy to attack America on 9/11?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

96. Bingo! Dead on the money! :-)

[rman]

126. Why would the military and various govt agencies not be capable of doing

what terrorist would be capable of doing? Are terrorists really that much smarter then Americans?
Or do you think that all the smart people are outside the government and all the stupid people are in the government? That's an implausible theory if i ever heard one.

Of all the clandestine covert operations by the CIA the only one they screwed up was the Bay Of Pigs, and then only because Kennedy messed with it, because he didn't like it.

Moreover, the government is incompetent only if you think they try to make things better for everyone - if you think they really wanted to liberate the Iraqi people and bring them democracy, if you think they really care about the troops and want to limit the number of casualties, if you think they were really trying to help the poor in New Orleans, etc.

[ktlyon]

78. because George said it

What has he said that has been the truth? no answer necessary

[porphyrian]

83. Why do people believe anything that can't be proven?

All we know is a couple of cell phone calls and maybe some black box data, and even that we've only heard second or third hand. People believe what they want to believe, just like people find whatever they're looking for whether it is there or not.

[Swamp Rat]

86. To me, it appears the victims of Flight 93 are being used for propaganda

I could be wrong.

It would be nice, though, if 9/11 victims and their families saw REAL JUSTICE, for a change, instead of a pseudo-documentary.

[titoresque]

89. Watch "Loose Change" n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

90. Because I sat on my couch and listened as news scrolled by that it

was being followed...because I called my uncle after the "planes were unarmed comment" and he, a ret. Lt. Col. in the Air Force said that was absurd...all patrol planes are fully armed and checked every morning...because the plane "just happened" to "crash" in a field...no people, no houses...Why can I not question it based even on that???

[pitohui]

95. why should we believe anything?

if there is a lot of proof, by all means, let's see it and hear it

but don't ask me to believe anything

only family members have heard the black box to my knowledge and they have emotional and financial reasons to want to believe their loved ones heroes

sorry that is not proof altho i would not say so if i thought a family member was reading this and might be hurt, as in matters of the unknowable it is does no harm to respect people's feelings if we can

[SPKrazy]

97. I Believe It Is Because Some People Tie Heroes To Somehow

something that supports Bush.

We all know Bush has exploited everything that ever happened and somehow made it seem as if he had some hand in it personally.

But I do believe that the passengers did everything they could to fight back.

I don't believe that they were able to do much due to the fact that either the hijackers crashed the plane themselves (official story) or that the plane was shot down. (my belief) the wreckage was found scattered over a large area, which wouldn't be the case in a plane that was crashed intact into the ground.

I think the fuselage, or part of it was all that was there to hit the ground as the plane had been hit minutes before.

Why? Two scenarios. One, if you are a MIHOP, which I am not, it was shot down to cover the evidence.

More likely, it was shot down so as to show there wasn't total incompetence, but then when people started putting timelines together, they realized that Bush hadn't even given any order, and that Cheney had to have done it which would be illegal.

So there you have my 2 cents worth.

I'm a LIHOP person myself, but I don't think that takes away anyone's bravery on that plane.

It's nice for family members to believe their loved ones were heroes, and they very well could have been trying to fight back.

[Sapere aude]

99. For some unknown reason I do not believe the official story.

It sometimes worries me that I don't see 9/11 a big a tragedy as most people do. Yes it was terrible and yes a lot of people died. It proves what a mixed up world we live in. I wondered why it took so long for terrorists to really do something big here after all the demonizing of the West they did.

To me the 9/11 response should have been an FBI matter. Not a global war on terror. That idea in itself is idiotic. You kill one terrorist and a hundred more are made.

The tragedy that I see is that we cannot somehow find a way to share this planet even though we are so different. 9/11 was the outcome of that tragedy and it has spurred on more hatred as will this movie and make it that much harder to come together.

[dailykoff]

100. If any of the heroics actually happened,

they were probably part of a scripted "simulation" of the type that corporations are fond of paying big bucks for. A lot of the flight 93 people seemed to have Pentagon/intel connections and probably thought they were playing a war game

The real fly in the ointment is the mid-flight cell phone calling, which was not technically possible.

[Generator]

104. Great irony

Because I just saw a commercial for the movie on T.V. The voiceover says, "These 40 ordinary heroes were responsible for saving the Capitol Building"

Great irony huh. Either they DID save the White House and Capitol or the were shot down by a plane-it doesn't really matter to me-they were sacrificed and were not protected by (supposedly) the greatest military in the world.

Giving their lives for those that did nothing to save anyone before 9/11, during 9/11 or since 9/11. Only YOU can save THEM-the billion dollar NORAD and all those guys can do shit. What a country. Can we get a refund of our military budget?

And I like to believe they did fight back. That's WAY more than most of our government did against these terrorists. We will never know. But what is not discussed is the massive failure of this government and the cover-up of the truth. (9/11 commission report)

[Carni]

109. My rememberance of flight 93

On 911 I was all over the net reading assorted reports and what I DISTINCTLY remember is that 93 seemed to be headed towards the nuke power plants in the Toledo Ohio area (fermi)-- I am in the Detroit area and was like *oh shit*

I can't prove this...can't link to it but I HIGHLY doubt that plane had any intentions on the capitol or the WH and I also believe it was shot down JMO and I do not mean to degrade the passengers.

[pitohui]

118. they were 15 minutes away from 3 mile island

they were nowhere near the usa capital

you are correct that flight 93 was well into ohio before it turned around

the only tape released to the public was the tape from cleveland flight control where you can hear the hijacker saying he had a bomb

quite likely when the passengers tried to get frisky, if they did, he set off the bomb since the plane came down in pieces, it did not hit first and then fall apart

vanity fair and some other reports have said that dick cheney did give the shootdown order, which alternately explains why the plane came apart in the air and not when it hit the ground

in either case it was in pennsylvania and it seems to me that there has never been any serious evidence presented suggesting the capitol was targeted, what target would you choose, nuclear power plant or ratty old historical bldg that needs a repair anyway, hmm, i know what i think would do the most real damage

the boxcutter story was played up because boxcutters were legal to bring aboard at that time, however, the tape clearly said they had a bomb -- in that case, united airlines and its security would have been legally culpable for allowing an entire bomb to get on board!

hence we get fairy tales

[WoodrowFan]

130. they were not THAT far from DC

they were well under 1/2 hour from the capital. Heck, I live in DC so I am familar with where it is on the map.

[Carni]

131. that's an interesting angle

You bring up some very good points

[mikelewis]

119. In retrospect, I believe it was headed for WTC7....

It was the only building to collapse on 9/11 that wasn't hit by a plane and 93 was the only plane to miss it's unknowable target. Also there's absolutely no question that the plane was shot down, the only questions still remaining is where was it really heading and why was it shot down? Were the passengers successful in overthrowing the "hijackers" and did the people responsible for shooting it down have something to hide? Was it an "accidental" shoot down, unauthorized by our government by some overzealous pilot or Col.? Was the Capitol Building or the White House the real targets or was this a deception intended to get our Air Force looking the other way, away from New York, allowing the final plane to hit it's target? The only way we "know" it was heading to Washington was from a mysterious voice over the Military Net from an alleged Secret Service Agent that ordered the pilots to protect Washington at all costs. How could anyone know where that plane was heading? To me, it seems logical to assume it's target was WTC7. 4 planes hijacked, 4 Collapsed Buildings, 3 direct hits. Something doesn't add up.

[mirandapriestly]

134. I think that is very likely.

That also would explain why Giuliani wasn't using his 7wtc "command center" that day. I have thought further to imagine that they could have planned for the plane to "go through" wtc 7 and destroy wtc 6, too, since according to a witness (see killtown's site) there were explosives planted in building 6 as well. If somehow it were to also hit the lower part of 1 and 2 no one would have ever questioned why the buildings fell. I don't know how that would have been done, though, I'm not sure about the construction of 7, but the exploding cars lead me to believe that something else might have been planned for that day.

[Tigress DEM]

112. I WANT to believe in their heroism in spite of any externals, but....

IF the Military shot down that plane I want the bastards to go face to face with each and every family member and make amends. I want those responsible to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

It's not the disbelief in the patriotism of the individuals involved. It is the stark raving mad hunger for the truth one gets when trying to find a way out of the desert of lies that this administration has created.

[BuyingThyme]

116. Because evil people are trying to put those words in your mouth.

[RagAss]

121. the whole film is speculation just like "The Perfect Storm"...

we just don't know what happened....let them rest in peace...

[OneBlueSky]

123. since BushCo has lied about EVERY aspect of 9/11 . . .

so there's no reason to believe they're telling the truth about Flight 93 . . .

[rman]

124. If the military shot the plane then the governemnt is covering it up.

If the government is lying about that, what else are they lying about?

So-called United 93 heroism is part of the official story, and even you are willing to take into account the possibility that the official story is not (entirely) true.