Election results illustrate the case for Clark '08,

[xkenx]

or "Why Wes Clark really can win."
I saw an interesting analysis in the New Republic, showing how Rahm Emmanuel was really lucky that the tidal wave elected enough Dems, because they sure weren't his hand-picked candidates. Most of the successes were by netroots supporters raising money and getting out to support their candidates, in some cases beating DLC supported canditates in the Dem primaries.
A source of frustration for me has been in talking to Dems who like Clark, but think he's too obscure to win, or who hardly know him at all. However, I remember an obscure former governor of a tiny New England state who became the front-runner in 2003 from his grassroots/netroots fund raising and organizing. Howard Dean's face was the one on all the magazine covers as the "annointed" one. Well, Clark's misfortune the last time was to get in too late and had to skip Iowa. But he actually outraised Dean in the last quarter during the primary campaign before he had to drop out.
Clark spent the past months campaigning for Dems across the country, with all donations to his PAC, www.Securingamerica.com going to help those candidates, not fill his own coffers. Now his theme is to make the issue going forward about America's security, through a sensible Middle East policy, and treating global warming and energy independence as vital national security interests.
Now is the time for DUers and others of similar ilk to take up the charge, lest we get stuck with an inferior candidate who may have great name recognition.

[blm]

1. Since corruption was the unifying concern of Dem AND Rep voters, then Clark needs

to make people aware that he will be an anti-corruption, open government Democrat who will open the books on BushInc if he were to attain the Oval Office.

One thing we know for certain after the last 30 years is that the last thing this country needs is another coverup administration.

[FrenchieCat]

5. Clark is for open book government, which is why he opened

ALL of his records to the public in his coined "reading room" during the primaries in 2004.

Wes Clark is a patriot and only wants what best for this country.......and is not in this for any other reason. While many are being given high fives by the corporate media and others on how instrumental they were in winning election 2006, Wes Clark is nowhere to be found on that topic.....hell, not even included in polls.
----------------------
AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about Operation Anaconda in Afghanistan?

SEYMOUR HERSH:....I got there after action started, which was just devastating, I mean, brutal. There's always interesting warfare, but this was extraordinary. They just said, this was the worst they have ever seen. One air force colonel, who is a wonderful, bright young air force colonel said to me, "Well, the army demonstrated that they were able to send a bunch of boys up a mountain to their death." That's what they showed in this mission. Complete disaster. They tried to tell the press as many as 700 al Qaeda were killed. Newsweek reported ten bodies were found. Shades of Vietnam again. But I didn't write it.

What makes it interesting, while doing reporting on it, I called Wesley Clark, the former NATO commander, who is sort of an interesting guy in this stuff, because early in the war, early in my reporting on the war, I had written critically about a Delta Force operation. Delta is the secret unit of the army. The commander unit. They had been ambushed. The Delta guys were enraged. I'm talking about the first month of the war because they had been sent on this stupid operation and they had gotten hurt very badly. And they don't like it. Delta guys, they like to crawl in little holes for a week and get to their target. They were ordered to do it in a different way.

Everybody denied the story like crazy. And Wes Clark, to his credit, told a bunch of newspapers, "Look, I know this is right." I had said 13 people were hurt and he said 12 was the number that he had. I saw in him somebody with a great streak of integrity, difficult he may be. In any case, I called him about this story while I was doing it. He encouraged me to write it. I didn't write it.

About a year-and-a-half later, he's running for president. I mention this in the book, and I bump into him, and he jumped all over me. He said, "Why didn't you do that story?" I said, "Well, I just thought, it just would have been -- I just didn't do it." He said, "You should have done it. That was your job." Pretty scary. You know, he was right.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/09/14/1351212
Seymour Hersh's Alternative History of Bush's War
By Mary Jacoby
Salon.com
Saturday 18 September 2004
The crack investigative reporter tells Salon about a disastrous battle the U.S. brass hushed up, the frightening True Believers in the White House, and how Iran, not Israel, may have manipulated us into war.
<snip>
To talk about the new revelations ...

Let me tell you the one I like the most; aside from the obvious stuff about Abu Ghraib, there was a story I didn't write two years ago about Operation Anaconda. I didn't write it because, oh, a lot of complicated reasons. One, it was very hostile to our soldiers, and the military, and General Franks, and Hagenbeck, a very nasty story. And then secondly, there was bad blood between the Marine Corps, and General Franks, and CentComm and the Air Force, and it just didn't, uh ... it's one of those stories. The real reason in a funny way is that even though my sources were angry in talking about it, it's one of the stories they really would have regretted, because you're talking about internecine warfare among the services. It's about boys ... anyway.

They would have regretted it?

They would have regretted talking to me about that. In there is an account of the Marines insisting that General Franks sign an MOU, a memorandum of understanding, of how the Marines would be used. We're talking about in combat, this kind of war going on between the services. And, you know, I probably guess it was the right decision, because I had to do obviously an alternate history of the war. And obviously there were certain people talking to me. People on the inside know what's going on. And so, I probably agree it was OK to do it. But I felt bad when I saw Clark later. I had talked to Clark about the story at the time. Then two years later I ran into him when he was running for president, or right before, and he said, "Whatever happened to that story?" I said, "Well, I just decided not to write it." And he said, "Well, you should have. It's your job."

He's an amazingly straight guy. A difficult guy. "You should have." He basically told me, "Punk kid. You didn't know what you were doing." I also respect him because ...

Q-Let's talk about some of these revelations.

Oh, so that was the one I liked the most.

Q-But why didn't you write it at the time? You thought it would be too hostile?

No! There was, you know, it was a tough story about troops running from the battlefield, you know; it was just a tough story. I was writing a lot of other tough stories, and, uh ... it just didn't work. Let's put it that way.


http://www.soonerthought.com/archives/date/2004/01/05/
WESLEY CLARK SLAMS MEDIA CONSOLIDATION
By Ira Teinowitz ADAge.com

PORTSMOUTH, N.H. (AdAge.com) – The consolidation of American media companies should stop and rules that safeguard local media company independence need to be reinstated, Democratic presidential candidate Wesley Clark said.

Retired 4-star general and Democratic presidential candidate Wesley Clark stumped New Hampshire and thumped media conglomerates over the weekend.
snip

In his broader comments from the campaign stage, Mr. Clark attacked the Bush Administration for, among other things, its Iraq War policies, its failure to track down Osama bin Laden, the loss of U.S. jobs and inadequate health care measures.

Working the campaign trail casually dressed in a red mock turtleneck and brown corduroys, Mr. Clark told the audience in Portsmouth's South Church that "I don’t think it is in the American public interest to further consolidate the media."

Answering this reporter's question, the candidate said media consolidation "is damaging to putting out diverse opinions and fostering public dialogue... We need to distribute the ownership in media. We need to have the fairness in broadcasting rules put back in place."

[blm]

6. I hope he pledges to go after BushInc, because THOSE books need to be opened.

And let the chips fall where they may. No matter WHO goes down with that ship. It will be their own fault for climbing aboard with the BFEE.

[FrenchieCat]

8. Hell, he may not even run.....

It's hard to save the country when you are simply ignored...although I give Clark great kudos in the part that he played on that endeavor. I'm sure that he sleeps much better now knowing that the Dems are at the helm.....and so maybe he won't be quite as motivated, considering he didn't get into it for the glamour in the first place.

[blm]

10. He's not ignored by most Kerry folks - we love him and Max. And always will.

There are people there for the fight who are stand up because it's the RIGHT thing to do. Those of us who support Kerry and watched him do the most unpopular investigations ever in DC, have come to be familiar with the problem that the truthtellers and the honest men get ostracized - by the press and by those in power who want them to be ignored or marginalized. Clark will get it just as bad if they fear he will open the books.

But, I'm sure you're aware of that, already.

[Auntie Bush]

31. Dammit Frenchie...now I won't be able to sleep tonight. n/t

[SharonAnn]

27. "Remember! It's because of Iraq"

I'll never forget that ad.

It was so very powerful.

[FrenchieCat]

30. Yep...the look in his eyes on that one with those words

make that commercial prize worthy!

[mtnsnake]

40. There it is, the 1001th time youve used an unrelated subject to bash Clinton

Congratulations!

You and your "open the books". Good gawd.

[FrenchieCat]

2. Many in the netroot will continue to see the obvious,

while the corporate media will continue to serve us the candidates that they feel we should have to pick from.

Here's an interesting entry from today:

2008 Prediction

Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack will get whalloped in his bid for the presidency. I'd be surprised if he could muster 10% in NY or CA. He's a pretty popular governor so perhaps he'll win Iowa pretty easily. If that's the case, then you have to ask if other candidates will even bother canvassing Iowa and if it's worth their time. That would mean Iowa won't be a bellweather in '08 and all the people there will be ignored--then they'll know how the rest of us feel. This puts more focus on New Hampshire and Nevada. Should he chose to run, I believe Gen. Wes Clark will do really well in both those states amongst Dems--he and his volunteers campaigned pretty hard for candidates that the other potentials didn't even notice, from top of the ticket races to the state legislature.

I think it's obvious that Clark is my top choice in '08, and now that Dems won the Senate, I think this puts Clark in the best position for '08 since Warner is out. The GOP is probably pull their grade school hijinks over the next couple years so I have a hard time imgaining a viable Senate candidate emerging as a clear leader. There are a lot of competent Senators, but most of the well deserving committee chairs don't seem to have presidential ambitions and the ones that do are going to have a hard time getting out of the shadow of Harry Reid, who has been--and hopefully continue to be--a solid leader.

I won't predict Clark will be the nominee--heck I don't even know if he'll run--but I know I'll be helping out. You should too!

http://stanforddemocrats.blogspot.com/2006/11/2008-prediction.html

I don't think a lot of folks realize how instrumental Wes Clark was in recruiting and supporting a lot of candidates that were not on the establishment barometer and who ended up winning or coming Oh so close!

Meanwhile, the Corporate media continues not to list him on polls. I wonder why not, considering that they push Hillary and Obama and Edwards without even being asked!

[CarolNYC]

25. candidates that the other potentials didn't even notice

I like this line:

"....he and his volunteers campaigned pretty hard for candidates that the other potentials didn't even notice, from top of the ticket races to the state legislature."

Indeed....

[qwlauren35]

3. I am inspired.

I had hoped that Warner would run, because I thought that a Warner/Clark ticket would be unbeatable. I think he'll need to have a "politically seasoned" running mate, but I'm encouraged to hear that he spent these past few months endorsing candidates.

I agree, I wasn't impressed by most of my choices, and I'm trying to urge people I know to "grow some candidates". If I hadn't been on the Dean bandwagon, I think Clark would have been my pick.

If he runs in 2008, he will probably be my top choice. I just think he needs some more visibility. A new book, maybe??? ;-)

[returnable]

4. Wes should make his intentions clear early...

If he wants in, he should stake a claim before the field gets too crowded. One of the reasons Dean captured the fancy of the netroots last time was he was really the only action in the early days of the cycle. If Clark can claim that corner this time around, he'll be in good stead...

[bobbieinok]

34. on Thursday DRehm show on Rumsfeld, Clark was 1 of 3 guests

An early caller asked if he had any 2008 plans to run. Clark said he was not opposed to running.

His contacts with people in the pentagon gives him lots of info about the generals' attitudes. For example, he said that senior officers find it very difficult to work with Rumsfeld b/c in no way can they treat their subordinates in the way R treats them. In addition, a caller asked if there was much difference of opinion between junior and senior officers regarding the situation in Iraq. Clark answered very clearly and simply that the nature of combat ensures that there is; one jr officer will experience and report very good results with working with Iraqi people and troops; another will experience and report bad experiences. Neither is able to evaluate the entire picture; that is the duty of senior officers.

I attended Clarkk's rally/speech in Tulsa in 2004 b/c of what I had read at DU. I found him an impressive speaker.

One thing that really impressed me. He said that in the military by and large your ability and work takes you pretty much as far as you want to go (ie, not a lot of race prejudice); he felt that everyone should work to make this possible in civilian society as well. I got the very strong impression (he may have explicitly said this) that his years in the military had not prepared him for the types of barriers that are common in US society and that he would work very hard to eliminate them.

He struck me as someone who was on a very fast learning project and was appalled at what he was finding.

His statements, speeches, and support of democratic candidates in 2006 should permanently put to rest the fears that some at DU expressed in the 2004 campaign that 'Clark isn't really a democrat.'

BTW, I remember a long 'conversation' Savage had with a caller during the primary campaign. The caller asked if that guy Clark running in the democratic primary really had been in the military. Savage had to admit that he had been and indeed had a record of courage and bravery. And then they spent about 10 minutes ranting about 'how in the world can a military person be a DEMOCRAT????????'

[bobbie]

7. If any outsider is permitted in the Whitehouse, it should be Clark

If...

[imlost]

9. He is my top choice. I will support him in any way I can. n/t

[ShaneGR]

11. If he can't win a Dem primary, how is he going to win the Presidency??

Don't get me wrong. I like him. But, he got beat badly int he 04 primaries. He's never held elected office. I've never even seen him have a positive affect on a campaign, didn't he spend a lot of time stumping for Lamont in the General? I think he'd make an excellent Secretary of State or something along those lines, but Presidential candidate? no. Been there done that.

[xkenx]

12. Clark didn't "get beat badly in primaries"

He just didn't run early enough to be competitive in Iowa, where Kerry was well-organized. After Iowa, EVERYONE else got beat badly. But you make my point about organizing support.

[FrenchieCat]

13. The same way that John Kerry overwhelmingly won the Primaries

But couldn't win the General Election.......

There are different criterias for each type of elections. Clark's issue was always the Primaries in 2004 because he started late, was accused of not being a real Democrat, etc....

During the General Election, the General being a General, having planned, led and won a war without US casualties and having voted for both Dems and Repugs in the past would not have been an issue. In the primary, they were made issues by his opponents as they tried to appeal to the more "anti-military" left over from Vietnam progressive base.

The political Democratic pragmatists knew that the results in the primary would not necessarily equate to the same results in the general election. Unfortunately, many folks just didn't do a true analysis beforehand....and the media pundits rarely are going to "help" Democratic rank and file do that type of honest and realistic analysis. I will say that in the end, many went with Kerry because they felt he was the best of both worlds; Military experience and elective office experience as well as momentum. What they didn't figure on was that a short time of service 35 years ago does not national security expertise make.....in terms of an actual image that could be projected.

Fortunately, Wes Clark worked more than hard enough this year, and did contribute to having helped enough Democrats where it did make a difference.....to the point that I doubt anyone other than the slimiest would question his Democratic bonafides at this point.

[blm]

18. That's where i disagree - Kerry IS a national security expert and everyone in DC knows it. Kerry

would be president today if Terry McAuliffe did HALF the job of strengthening the party infrastructure in ALL states the way Dean did instead of leaving them to collapse while he concentrated on Dem HQ in DC, because the DNC gave up on 2002 and 2004 on Sept.11, 2001.

And EVERY Dem would suffer the targeting that Kerry got - it doesn't matter what the TRUTH is or the facts about anyone's record. If the corpmedia is willing they will support whatever lie the RNC can come up with and make sure the counterarguments in defense are muted or downplayed.

[FrenchieCat]

21. In making my point, I was very exact for a reason.....blm

I stated...."What they didn't figure on was that a short time of service 35 years ago does not national security expertise make.....in terms of an actual image that could be projected."

I'm talking about projection to the general public...which unfortunately is part of the package that was required. The opposition during the GE were able to make Kerry "look" weak on national security........and Kerry wasn't able to counter that imagery by a large enough margin.

[blm]

22. If the establishment Dems had allowed it, there would be no question reKerry's creds

and you know there was already a contingent plan out there for Clark as the 'perfumed prince' who was a bigger problem than an asset. We KNOW they would have gone right after his greater strengths using every general and commander they could feature, and a complicit media would have helped every step of the way. And the Dem party INFRASTRUCTURE would have still not been strong enough to get Clark's votes counted, either.

Does that mean his "image' would be take the hit? Fer chrissakes, you don't GET more security conscious than writing a book that tracks the terror networks and their funding in 1996.

[FrenchieCat]

23. They tried that......it didn't work as well as they had anticipated......

Let me say this......the person who termed him a Perfumed prince,took it back publicly in an article which glowed about how great and down to earth Clark was......once he met him.

Further, Clark won a war......and I doubt that would have been ridiculed during a General Election......So, no, I don't think that Clark 34 year service and General rank would have been a problem for regular voting folks including many conservatives and Independents duting the GE...which is why he did well in states like Oklahoma, North Dakota, Arizona, and New Mexico during the primaries....even though he got no media after Iowa. It was only a problem during the primaries because of how many liberals feel military officers.....and that's was the GOP's plan.

You've got to understand that Clark was painted as a War Hawk/War criminal during the primaries in order to turn off liberal activists, not the general population......and it didn't really work. What worked was stuff like Michael Moore calling Bush a deserter while endorsing Clark in New Hampshire. What worked was Clark's opponents calling Clark a Republican and drudge cutting a sentence from an hour long speech on foreign policy in where it appears that he was "praising" Bush. That trick wouldn't have worked during the GE either. What worked was the General vs. the Lieutenant schtick that Kerry took advantage of.....precisely what you refer to has the Perfume Prince syndrome. What worked was Clark talking too much on his first day campaigning to the point of where his mullings on the Iraq War Resolution were made into a Gotcha.

But in reference to Clark's expertise on National Security and integrity and Character...that one, although tried, just did'nt fly....and here's the proof!

MAJ. GEN. ROBERT SCALES: SCALES: I've known Wes for 40 years; he's also a passionate, committed, empathetic individual. So, soldiers in wartime have to lead soldiers into battle and the lives of men and women are at stake. And sometimes that requires a degree of flintiness that you don't need in other professions.

HUME: What about those who suggest that his character reflects a kind of unbridled ambition that puts his career above all things, fair?

SCALES: No. No. Unfair. Again, like I say I've known him all my adult life. He is an individual who is committed to a higher calling. I mean he's got three holes in him and a Silver Star from Vietnam. He has a…the word patriot only partially describes his commitment to public service. And for as long as I've known him, he's always looked, you know, beyond himself and he's been committed to serving the nation. And I think what you are seeing happen here recently is an example of that.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,97689,00.html


Lt. Gen. James Hollingsworth, one of our Army's most distinguished war heroes, says: "Clark took a burst of AK fire, but didn't stop fighting. He stayed on the field 'til his mission was accomplished and his boys were safe. He was awarded the Silver Star and Purple Heart. And he earned 'em."
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34738


General Barry McCaffrey :"(He) is probably the most intelligent officer I ever served with," McCaffrey said. "(He has) great integrity, sound judgment and great kindness in dealing with people. He is a public servant of exceptional character and skill."

McCaffrey told the Washington Post: "This is no insult to army culture ... but he was way too bright, way too articulate, way too good looking and perceived to be way too wired to fit in with our culture."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1047429,00.html
"I have watched him at close range for 35 years, in which I have looked at the allegation, and I found it totally unsupported," said retired Gen. Barry McCaffrey, who taught with Clark at West Point in the 1970s. "That's not to say he isn't ambitious and quick. He is probably among the top five most talented I've met in my life. I think he is a national treasure who has a lot to offer the country."
McCaffrey acknowledges that Clark was not the most popular four-star general among the Army leadership. "This is no insult to Army culture, a culture I love and admire," McCaffrey said, "but he was way too bright, way too articulate, way too good-looking and perceived to be way too wired to fit in with our culture. He was not one of the good old boys."
http://www.projo.com/extra/2003/candidates/content/projo_20030921_wpclark.6873b.html


Defense Secretary William Perry: who as deputy defense secretary first encountered Clark in 1994 when he was a three-star on the Joint Staff. "I was enormously impressed by him," said Perry, a legendary Pentagon technologist who served as defense secretary under Clinton.

Perry was so impressed, in fact, that with Clark facing retirement unless a four-star job could be found for him, Perry overrode the Army and insisted that Clark be appointed commander of the U.S. Southern Command, one of the military's powerful regional commanders in chief, or CINCs. "I was never sorry for that appointment," Perry said.
http://www.projo.com/extra/2003/candidates/content/projo_20030921_wpclark.6873b.html

Gen. John Shalikashvili, chairman of the Joint Chiefs overrode the Army once again and made sure Clark became Supreme Allied Commander Europe, traditionally the most powerful CINC, with command of all U.S. and NATO forces on the continent.
http://www.projo.com/extra/2003/candidates/content/projo_20030921_wpclark.6873b.html

Col. Douglas Macgregor: There is this aspect of his character: He is loyal to people he knows are capable and competent," Macgregor said. "As for his peers, it's a function of jealousy and envy, and it's a case of misunderstanding. Gen. Clark is an intense person, he's passionate, and certainly the military is suspicious of people who are intense and passionate. He is a complex man who does not lend himself to simplistic formulations. But he is very competent, and devoted to the country."
http://www.projo.com/extra/2003/candidates/content/projo_20030921_wpclark.6873b.html

General Colin Powell on CNN - 9/28/03: "I've known Wes Clark for 20 years. He's one of the most gifted soldiers that I have ever had work for me. And beyond that, I really feel it's appropriate for me to recuse myself from any further comment now that he is a political candidate."
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0309/28/le.00.html

Major General George Pickett on the whispers...."No big surprise, since he graduated first in his class from West Point , which puts him in the super-smart set with Robert E. Lee, Douglas MacArthur and Maxwell Taylor."
'All this book leanin' is unbecoming for an officer. The yankees got all the smart ones, and look where it got them."
http://www.command-post.org/oped/2_archives/008539.html

Admiral John Dalton, Former Secretary of the Navy, in a 2004 OP Ed--
"Wesley Clark is uniquely qualified to lead the nation - Today, America faces two fundamental challenges at home and abroad: keeping our country safe in a dangerous world, and restoring fiscal responsibility and prosperity for the working families of our nation. We must choose a President with experience and depth both for the domestic economy and the international arena. "

General Schwarkopf on CNBC News questioned about Clark and a particular whisper campaign....
BORGER: All right, General, I'm going to switch gears on you just for one last question, because we've been watching all of the Democrats react to the news of Saddam Hussein's capture. You made a little bit of news on our show on November 6th when you said of General Wesley Clark that he was not going to get your vote, that was for certain, because General Hugh Shelton had said that he was not a man of character and integrity. And you said, quote, "If that's the case, he's not the right man for president as far as I'm concerned." Have you changed your mind?
SCHWARZKOPF: Well, again, 'if that's the case' was a very, very important statement. You know, I don't know to this date--there's never been any attempt to explore with Hugh Shelton what he meant by that.

....I don't know what lack of character caused Hugh Shelton to say that, I don't know what lack of integrity caused Hugh Shelton to say that, and I'd like to hear more about it. And basically I just don't think that that's been addressed that much. And obviously to a lot of people that's not an issue at all."
http://ann.forclark.com/story/2004/1/8/191653/0022

The fizzling whisper campaign was brought to a halt when General Shelton was called on the carpet by Hague prosecutors who were trying Milosovic. Milosovic repeated what Gen. Shelton had whispered about General Clark, after Clark testified against Milosovic. Unfortunately for General Gossip, he had to call his unfortunate comments assailing Wes Clark's character "just politics".
http://wesleyclark.h1.ru/presidence4.htm#LA%20Meetup%20with%20Wes%20II

Col. David Hackworth: I'm impressed. He is insightful, he has his act together, he understands what makes national security tick – and he thinks on his feet somewhere around Mach 3. No big surprise, since he graduated first in his class from West Point, which puts him in the supersmart set with Robert E. Lee, Douglas MacArthur and Maxwell Taylor.

Clark was so brilliant, he was whisked off to Oxford as a Rhodes scholar and didn't get his boots into the Vietnam mud until well after his 1966 West Point class came close to achieving the academy record for the most Purple Hearts in any one war. When he finally got there, he took over a 1st Infantry Division rifle company and was badly wounded.

He doesn't suffer fools easily and wouldn't have allowed the dilettantes who convinced Dubya to do Iraq to even cut the White House lawn. So he should prepare for a fair amount of dart-throwing from detractors he's ripped into during the past three decades.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34738

Andrew Young: "I asked a whole lot of my friends who were generals and colonels and majors, who served over General Clark and under General Clark and every last one of them said to me that this is a good man, and if he were leading our nation they would be proud. son of the South capable of making a dangerous world a safer place for everybody. A man we are going to make the next president of the United States."
http://socialize.morningstar.com/NewSocialize/asp/FullConv.asp?forumId=F100000035&lastConvSeq=9789

[blm]

26. I KNOW all of that about him...and so do you....but how does any of it stop the LIARS

who would have had 7 months to beat the crap out of JUST Clark as the target and with a fully complicit media?

Be glad that Kerry can call hearings into corporate media so he can get the 2003 FCC ruling overturned. Those who keep trying to tear at his credibility are doing this entire nation an enormous disservice every time they perpetuate the lies and the spin against him.

You either FIGHT the lies EVERY TIME or pay the consequences of supporting BushInc's lies in the future - like Hillary is about to discover.

[FrenchieCat]

28. Don't think there is no plan......

Strategy is Clark's strong suit--. He's got much more time than the 4 months he had 3 years ago.

[blm]

46. Kerry didn't have those 4yrs - he had the last Dem president publically siding with Bush

on major issues throughout that time. And so did most of the Dem senators who wouldn't back Kerry at crucial times.

Come on...WE all know that the entire campaign consisted of Kerry, Cleland, Clark, Kennedy and Edwards taking on the ENTIRE Republican party at the PEAK of their strength in DC and in the media. The DNC had given up on Sept. 11, 2001 and their lack of effort in 2002 and 2004 showed.

[mtnsnake]

41. No. Kerry might be president today if he had Clark's personality and

Bill Clinton's ability to connect. Unfortunately for him he has neither, and when he tries, he comes off as unnatural and stale.

[Jai4WKC08]

15. He won a Dem primary.

In fact, he was the only 04 candidate other than Kerry to win a primary in a state not his own.

I don't get how on earth you can say he hasn't had a positive effect on a campaign. Obviously none of our '06 Congressional candidates feel that way, since they requested Clark to campaign with more often than any other. The DNC repeatedly had speak for the party, on TV and in print. Reid and Pelosi asked him to help develop and present their security plan.

Most importantly, Clark particiaped directly in 42 WINNING campaigns, of which 25 involved flipping seats from red to blue. That's no positive effect?

Yeah, Clark stumped for Lamont, and made an ad for him. Lamont didn't win. We don't know how well he would have done if Clark hadn't helped. But unlike some big-name Democrats, some of whom will run for president in '08, Clark didn't let the fact that Lamont was behind in the polls stop him from showing his support for the right guy.

Clark's 04 campaign was actually pretty successful. No, he didn't win, but he beat out a number of life-time professional politicians who had won plenty of elections. He'll do better next time. And if he doesn't, what the fuck are you worried about?

[Crunchy Frog]

16. I don't expect he'll win the nomination if he doesn't win primaries. n/t

Everybody except Kerry got beaten bad in the '04 primaries. That doesn't necessarily predict how they would do in the '08 primaries.

[AtomicKitten]

14. General Clark is definitely in my top 3 favorites for 2008.

Gore and Obama the other two.

[wyldwolf]

17. funny. I saw an analysis in "The Nation" that said the exact opposite

The blogs’ most famous candidate and top fundraising beneficiary, Ned Lamont, lost his bid to unseat Senator Joe Lieberman. One of the campaign’s senior advisors, former Clinton White House counsel Lanny Davis, said the victory “proved the blogosphere is all wind and very little sail.” Bloggers tell a different story: the unusual, 3-way race should not be judged strictly by who won, but also by its success in helping “make Iraq the center of this electoral season,” as Joel Silberman wrote on FireDogLake. If Lamont’s loss is counted as a symbolic effort that beat expectations, his performance fits a pattern. Many of the netroots’ most popular House candidates beat expectations this week, but ultimately lost.

While there is no single, authoritative list of netroots candidates, ActBlue.com, a Democratic fundraising clearinghouse, lists the candidates nominated by top blogs and ranks them by total donors. Looking at their top 20 Democratic House candidates, so far ten have lost, three have won and the other seven are in races that are still too close too call at the time of writing. The netroots’ lost races include national names, such as FBI whistleblower Coleen Rowley in Minnesota and New York’s Eric Massa, the popular former aide to Gen. Wesley Clark. Winners include attorney Paul Hodes in New Hampshire and two veterans, Joe Sestak in Pennsylvania and Tim Walz in Minnesota...

Yet regardless of the remaining results and recounts, the fact is the netroots’ favorite candidates did not perform as well as the Democrats targeted by party leaders.

------------------------

That being quoted, I still support Wes Clark (who sure wasn't a netroots/grassroots favorite last time.)

[FrenchieCat]

19. Netroot & Grassroots would also mean

Shea-Porter in NH (who worked on the Clark campaign in 04)
McNerney in CA who beat Pompo
Tester in Montana
and even Webb out of Virginia did NOT start out with any party backing. In fact there were quite a few in congressional house races as well, that were buyoed to the surface by net/grass roots efforts and did win.

The grassroot/netroot is too new and evolving for anyone to make pronouncements that one can hang their hat onto.

Lanny Davis, who supported Lieberman througout, is a pretty biased source to quote. He certainly has a vested interest in making his statement.

[wyldwolf]

24. the fact remains...

Wes Clark was hated by the netroots in 2004 - so much so that Michael Moore had to mock them in a speech about it.

[FrenchieCat]

29. That was 2004.....

and I just think that IF he can get money, and the fucked media would give him a little itty bit of credit, than I believe him to be very viable. If not, I'm sure that he just won't run. We'll see.

[wyldwolf]

32. yes, it was, which is what I originally said.

I agree with with you, though.

[Crunchy Frog]

36. That was not the netroots that Moore was mocking IIRC.

It was more the traditional leftists. Clark was definitely a netroots candidate, along with Dean. The Dean netroots were bigger than the Clark netroots, but the Clark netroots were substantial nonetheless. There were certain segments of the Dean netroots that hated him, but that's to be expected, since he was seen as the biggest competition.

Among the netroots the big primary battle was between Dean and Clark. In the real world, it was a Kerry blowout.

[knight_of_the_star]

20. He would be perfect

For many reasons like his stances on the issues, but here's the best one:

He's NEVER held elected office. That way it is easy for him to put himself above the fray and above the corruption. He isn't "just another politician" and that will be his biggest asset.

[democrank]

33. Hope Clark runs.

He`s exactly what we need right now.

[mdelaguna2000]

35. Media tore him apart in 2004

It was awful, such inaccurate/unfair characterizations. Wes was so genuine, but seemed unable to combat some of the hype, and the ridiculous spin of how he left the NATO post. But then again they tore up Gore, Kerry, and Dean too, equally unfairly IMHO.

Maybe he's gotten tougher and more resilient. No question he should be SOS of SOD, or even VP. If he could get the support for President, wow. Imagine not having a REAL politician (almost all have their snake oil side) in charge of the country!

[Crunchy Frog]

37. He's been sharpening his teeth over at Faux.

He's getting lots of experience dealing with a hostile media environment over there, so I expect that he will be far better equipped to deal with them this time around.

The biggest problem that he had in '04 was the media putting him on deliberate ignore. I don't really know how you combat that, other than by simply overwhelming them on the ground.

[DianaForRussFeingold]

38. K&R Wes Clark Spreading The Hard Truth Of What Most Of Us Didn't Know.

:patriot: Wesley Clark giving America a call to arms about the dire state of our democracy under the current administration. Wes, a retired Four Star General, says that Bush was derelict in his duty as Commander-in-Chief and Destroying our constitutional rights and the unfounded war in Iraq. Video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6A0dG9mtno :patriot: "you can't win it by killing people in Iraq, it's not that kind of war!", "this administration is going to take us to war with Iran and try to start a war with a billion people; people of the Islamic faith, there's no reason to do it" :kick: Wesley clark solid record and lifetime of service to his country:

First in his class at West Point
Rhodes Scholar, Oxford graduate
Master’s Degree in economics
Highly decorated combat veteran - Bronze Star, Silver Star, Purple Heart
Retired 4-star general
Former NATO Supreme Allied Commander
Awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom
Successful businessman and author
General Clark is a welcome voice of intelligence, common sense and moderation on both foreign policy and domestic issues. America Needs Wesley Clark

[mtnsnake]

39. General Clark is probably the most sincere of all the candidates & would

make a fine president, IMO.

[w4rma]

42. Gen. Clark rocks. (nt)

[oasis]

43. Dem party leadership would do well to showcase Gen. Clark and Sen. Webb over

the next two years in order to change the perception that Dems are "anti-military".

Clark's candidacy would benefit greatly from that kind of exposure.

[DoYouEverWonder]

44. I'd rather see a Gore/Clark ticket

I think Gore should have the presidency, since it was stolen from him in the first place and because he will make a hell of a good president.

Clark for VP or Sec of State or __________, would be great too.

[Nimrod2005]

45. All we need to do is pick up Ohio, and we did on Tuesday!!!

That's all: we won...Ohio is solidly Blue now, therefore we are in good shape.