Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:16 PM
Original message |
Hillary won big in MI and FL largely because of name recognition.... |
|
Edited on Tue Jan-29-08 09:28 PM by Flabbergasted
not because of her popularity as a candidate. Obama's Iowa win and good showing in NV and NH prove this.
She may have, and likely, would have won these states anyway, but Obama bridges polling gaps quickly when he campaigns because his state campaigns are very effective and he inspires people. People become motivated when he's around, one of the reasons why I think he'd make a good president at this point in history.
Moving into S.T. I think there will be a few surprises, most notably, a big Obama win in CA. Bet on it. Obama still has good momentum.
P.S. Most of the voters do not research candidates beyond their local news "revelations".
|
Kittycat
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:17 PM
Response to Original message |
1. Hillary ran against "Uncommited" in MI |
Metric System
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
13. What you fail to mention is that everyone knew Uncommitted meant Obama or Edwards |
Kittycat
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
33. I'm sure many of their voters, voted for her out of no other option. |
johnnydrama
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
|
How much would you have to dislike Hillary to go out in the cold and the snow to vote for Uncommitted?
|
noamnety
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
|
That's a ridiculous assertion. I only knew it from DU - I don't normally watch local news, and the one article I caught in the local paper about the ballot neglected to mention it. My in-laws only knew it because I had dinner with them - they were going to do write-ins.
On top of that, many people don't want to vote for "obamaoredwards" as if they are one interchangeable entity. It was a deterring factor that would have kept people away from the polls if they supported one of them but opposed the other.
|
Metric System
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #45 |
75. If I remember correctly, the exit polls indicated that those who voted uncommitted, did so knowing |
|
they were voting for Obama or Edwards.
|
noamnety
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #75 |
84. An exit poll of those who went to the polls |
|
is not the same as a random sample of those who would have gone to the polls if their candidate's name had been on the ballot.
People get disenfranchised in lots of different ways. Those who didn't vote because they felt disenfranchised were not included in your exit polls.
|
Demeter
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message |
2. Hillary "Won" Michigan Because She was Uncontested |
|
Although Uncommitted came in a very close second....
|
William769
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:18 PM
Original message |
|
So the other names on the ballot were fictitious?
|
Demeter
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:25 PM
Response to Original message |
24. They Were Less Than Useless |
William769
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
32. But she was not uncontested, as you stated. |
Kittycat
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
35. Kucinich was on the ballot |
|
The others on there had dropped out.
|
William769
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #35 |
37. Which means she was NOT uncontested. |
William769
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message |
|
He's tanking on the Latino vote. CA is just one of the S. T. States he's going to do bad in.
|
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
8. I could be wrong...but if we're discussing race...CA has a lot of blacks. |
William769
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
16. Better check your demographics. |
|
Edited on Tue Jan-29-08 09:21 PM by William769
You will be surprised of the breakdown of the White, AA & Latino population.
|
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
sunonmars
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message |
4. He's 6 days to do 24 states, good luck |
Fredda Weinberg
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message |
5. Dunno 'bout you, but I've been seeing Obama's national ads here |
|
in NYC. I suspect a few Floridians caught 'em too.
|
KittyWampus
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
12. Did he campaign in person. Cause when he does his support rises. Hillary's only shrinks |
Fredda Weinberg
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
17. I think you're mistaking her for Rudy. HRC wows crowds n/t |
OHdem10
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message |
6. Sorry---She won because she is viewed as competent, experienced |
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
38. Sorry. If Obama had campaigned in FL and MI it would have been close. |
xultar
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message |
7. Yeah, people cannot pick a candidate unless they have commercials and shit in their mailbox. |
|
Yeah, people can only choose a candidate if there is campaigning going on right in their fucking faces.
Apparently you think people are stupid.
|
KittyWampus
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
20. No, but when Obama campaigns in person he shrinks her lead EVERY time. If you don't think name recog |
|
recognition had something to do with it, please reconsider.
Hillary's support has done nothing but shrink.
And Obama tied those who decided this week.
Not bad for a guy running against the Clintons.
Do I think he'd have won Florida if he'd campaigned there? No, probably not. But he'd have won way more delegates.
|
Tulkas
(592 posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message |
9. In Michigan She was the only one of the 3 that did not remove her name from the ballot |
|
and still only got 51%
that is sad very very sad
|
Scurrilous
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message |
Metric System
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message |
11. What? Do Floridians not have access to TV and newspapers? They must know who Obama is by now. He's |
|
certainly doing well enough in the vote count. Besides that, I can't imagine so many people trekking to the polling station just to vote for the person whose name is most familiar. That's kind of insulting the intelligence of Floridians.
|
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
15. "Obama is inspringing to people when he's around." He makes then want to work. |
Metric System
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
74. I thought the selling point is that he inspires people in their daily lives. At least that's what I |
|
hear from his supporters. Now you're telling me they need to hold his hand to be inspired.
|
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #74 |
78. He'd have more clout in the WH. |
jackson_dem
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:20 PM
Response to Original message |
14. Obama has VERY high name recognition. His name recog. is higher than Edwards' |
|
Next excuse for Obama getting thrashed despite cheating?
|
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
19. Not like Hillary's of course. Most people don't pay attention like we do. |
|
The news is not enough for candidates like Edwards and Obama.
|
jackson_dem
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
42. It isn't enough to explain him getting killed |
|
The last figures I saw showed about a ten point gap.That was months ago. With the coverage Obama has gotten since then, especially since Iowa he should be very close. If it was just about name ID was is Obama 17 points ahead of Edwards? They are similar in name recognition, although Obama has gotten so much coverage he has higher name recognition than someone who ran last time and was the VP candidate.
|
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #42 |
47. Many vote dependent on sound bites and their emotions.... |
|
Fond memories of the Clinton years are enough to show huge wins. This was what Clinton was anticipating the whole time.
Obama's ground game is extremely effective. Iowa, NH and NV prove this point.
I think if Obama had actively campaigned FL and MI we'd see a much different picture.
Hillary may have still won.
|
jackson_dem
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #47 |
53. We'll find out in about a week |
KittyWampus
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
23. Please, you KNOW Hillary's support only shrinks when Obama campaigns in person. |
|
Why dispute it?
He probably wouldn't have won FL by campaigning in person... but he'd have shrunk her lead and gotten more delegates.
|
Cass
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:22 PM
Response to Original message |
18. I find it interesting how quickly this new meme is spreading. |
|
**name recognition**
If Obama doesn't have **name recognition** at this point, then he's got a honking huge problem on his hands.
:eyes:
|
sunonmars
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
21. I know, you'd think he'd just walked in from the street |
|
Clinton is taking a massive amount of votes in Florida. Absolutely enormous.
|
KittyWampus
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
28. I find it interesting that Hillary supporters can't admit Obama wins over voters when he campaigns |
|
in person.
There are very few states where Hillary hasn't lost support to Obama.
|
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
59. Fact: When Obama campaigns actively in states he gains support quickly... |
|
Iowa, NH and especially NV show this.
|
AtomicKitten
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:24 PM
Response to Original message |
22. Hillary's huge lead initially was most definitely because of name recognition. |
|
And Obama has campaigned state by state and turned the tide. He won huge in Iowa and South Carolina, and lost by just 2 points in both Nevada and New Hamsphire.
Hillary has always had the upper hand when it comes to name recognition and reliance on her husband's political machine that they have been cultivating for the last two decades, but Obama is showing he is a formidable contender.
|
sunonmars
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
25. Well he has 6 days to do 24, that'll be fun for one on ones |
KittyWampus
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
31. True, but that just shows how pathetic Clintons are. They only win by NOT campaigning |
mondo joe
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #31 |
46. Don't blame them for being popular. NT |
mondo joe
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:25 PM
Response to Original message |
26. Do you think those states are caves? That they don't get the news? |
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
39. Obama inspires people when he's around. He makes them want to work. |
mondo joe
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #39 |
43. So he has to be around all the time in person to get anything to happen? |
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #43 |
65. In the Oval office he'd have quite a podium nationally and internationally don't ya think? nt |
mondo joe
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #65 |
72. But he has national presence now - people keep saying that's not enough and he |
|
needs to be there in person.
:shrug:
|
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #72 |
80. Did GWB have more presence in or out of the WH? |
mondo joe
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #80 |
82. Is being seen on tv what you mean by "on the ground"? |
Debi
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:26 PM
Response to Original message |
29. Yep, people for who they know |
|
and if they haven't had the opportunity to see/meet/research the candidates then they go back and vote for the most recognizable name.
|
Windy
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:27 PM
Response to Original message |
30. Her margin against uncommitted in Michigan wasn't that great. n/T |
milkyway
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:28 PM
Response to Original message |
34. Good point. Everybody knows Hillary and they either support her or they don't. Low-info voters, |
|
Edited on Tue Jan-29-08 09:28 PM by milkyway
however, know little or nothing about Obama. And the more they get to know about him, the better he does (kinda the opposite of Giuliani).
|
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #34 |
mondo joe
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #34 |
44. Those poor Floridians, without internet or tv or magazines or newspapers. |
milkyway
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #44 |
48. It's a ridiculous idea that all voters know all candidates equally. Name recognition has always |
|
played a major role in any political campaign, especially early in it. John Edwards ran for Vice President, for crissakes, yet there were plenty of voters who barely knew him.
|
mondo joe
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #48 |
54. Poor unknown Obama. He only has national press and commercials running in FL. |
|
You'd think that SC victory would have counted for something.
|
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #54 |
61. No ground campaining which is where he is most effective. |
mondo joe
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #61 |
69. If he has to be on the ground to be effective it's gonna be pretty sad if he gets the Presidency. |
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #69 |
77. He'd have quite a podium in the WH. Haven't we had this discussion before? |
mondo joe
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #77 |
79. I guess I don't understand what you mean by "on the ground". |
|
He has national media attention now, but that didn't seem to be enough.
|
demo dutch
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #44 |
49. You really should consider to stop insulting people from FL, just because you don't like the results |
|
Edited on Tue Jan-29-08 09:44 PM by demo dutch
She won because of the jewish and latino vote
|
mondo joe
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #49 |
55. Did you really need a sarcasm tag on my post? |
demo dutch
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Jan-30-08 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #49 |
85. heh listen people are also posting stuff like this on another thread and I quote: |
|
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 10:15 AM by demo dutch
"The senile and nearly dead will forget there was a primary tomorrow!! And that just about 70% covers the FL Democratic voters and all of Billary's support. Interesting time to live. May we be remembered well "
|
demo dutch
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #34 |
50. You're wrong. Everyone I know, knows lots about all the candidates and |
|
Edited on Tue Jan-29-08 09:48 PM by demo dutch
still voted for Hillary. Low-info folks generally don't vote in primaries
|
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #50 |
51. Mark these words. If Obama was on the ground we would have seen a |
|
much different outcome.
NV, IOWA, amd NH prove this.
|
demo dutch
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #51 |
52. IA and NH are not representative of the rest of the country |
|
Edited on Tue Jan-29-08 09:51 PM by demo dutch
|
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #52 |
58. They are however quite representative of the effectiveness of Obama's campaigning |
milkyway
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #52 |
63. You're right. They're white as snow. |
mondo joe
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #51 |
56. Your marked words are simply speculation from someone drunk on the 0bama koolaid |
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #56 |
60. Good god. Frankly, It is just an observation no matter how factual. |
|
I have no vested emotional interest in Obama winning at this point. He doesn't really attract me.
|
nonconformist
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #34 |
66. Not necessarily... the more I learn about Obama, the more I know he's not the right candidate. |
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #66 |
70. By and large he gains support when he campaigns on a local level. |
lonestarnot
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 09:29 PM
Response to Original message |
36. I'm reading a book about him. |
Hill_YesWeWill
(652 posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message |
57. I just wanted to give my opinion about this for whats it;s worth |
|
as a Clinton supporter, and more as a democrat, I found Clinton pretending to win Florida kind of embarrassing, I mean, I am embarrassed by it!
|
jackson_dem
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:07 PM
Response to Original message |
62. Only 3% of Americans don't know who Obama is. Next excuse? |
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #62 |
73. Ask all these people to write essays on what they know about Hillary vs Obama. nt |
nonconformist
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:08 PM
Response to Original message |
64. Right... because people that live in MI and FL live in caves. |
|
I'm fairly certain that people in MI and FL have television, radio, the internet and can, shockingly, read.
|
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #64 |
67. Obama's ground game is where he is most effective. Of course he'd lose without it. |
nonconformist
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #67 |
71. So what you're saying is is that he can't win on the issues? |
|
That he needs to speak to people in person to get their vote?
|
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #64 |
|
Edited on Tue Jan-29-08 10:10 PM by Flabbergasted
|
Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:15 PM
Response to Original message |
|
Edited on Tue Jan-29-08 10:16 PM by Flabbergasted
|
krkaufman
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:19 PM
Response to Original message |
81. Don't discount the value Clinton gained from her pre-primary pandering ... |
|
... in regards to her request that the Florida delegates be seated. Her campaign used this request as a means to skirt the "no campaign" pledge, knowing it would garner her a lot of friendly local news coverage. She could just as easily have made the request AFTER the primary, but then doing so wouldn't have given her any vote boost.
|
calteacherguy
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Tue Jan-29-08 10:22 PM
Response to Original message |
83. LOL. I just posted a duplicate thread...didn't see this one. nt |
DU
AdBot (1000+ posts) |
Sun Jun 16th 2024, 07:56 AM
Response to Original message |