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I am deeply troubled by the Obama attack on the Clinton health plan

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Freida5 Donating Member (649 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:46 AM
Original message
I am deeply troubled by the Obama attack on the Clinton health plan
The false attack of garnishing wages is designed to provoke fear among voters and could ultimately result in health care reform not passing again.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. She herself said that her plan would garnish wages.
It is not false.
It could lose the election for the Democrats.
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neutron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Too Bad Obama's Plan was Discredited by Economists
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neutron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. All of his Plans are Ill thought Out and Lightweight
and definitely to the RIGHT.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. There has been a rebuttal to that....
by physicians, no less. Krugman is not a physician.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. You should be "deeply troubled" that the Republicans are going to rip
into her "garnish wages" statement like wolverines into a porcupine's belly.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
3. Do some investigating before
you come on here with your canned problems.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. but they are troubled ... deeply
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yeah, I know how "troubled" they are..
they see the dlc candidate, hilary clinton, not so inevitable anymore and that troubles 'em.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. Its accurate, Obama is misrepresenting his plan
He's claiming its universal, when it isn't.

His plan doesn't exempt employer paid health insurance from income tax

His plan is dodgy on getting prescription drug costs under control - relying mostly on reimportation of prescription drugs from foreign countries - a very dumb idea.

Obama's plan matches the ones proposed by the likes of Newt Gingrich and other conservatives who load them with money for health care technology, but skimp on benefits to individuals.

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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. Good.
I have no problem paying taxes for a true single payer healthcare system with no insurance companies involved. But I'll be goddamned if I will be compelled to hand over part of my wages to greedy insurance companies, just so they can tell me they won't cover me. Fuck that noise.

And no, there's not going to be a government plan that competes with the ins. cos. The insurance lobby is not going to let that happen.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. I think it is a huge problem for her in the general election. It will probably
Edited on Sun Feb-10-08 11:58 AM by Pirate Smile
lose us the election if she is the nominee.
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Big Blue Marble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
7. Why is it false
when she said that she would be going after people's wages?
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. I am "deeply troubled" by Clinton's claims that her plan is universal and his isn't
Edited on Sun Feb-10-08 12:06 PM by orangepeel68
Neither plan offers universal health care. Both offer universal availability of health insurance. The difference is in the assumptions one makes about mandates and how many people will decline (without mandates) versus how many will refuse (with mandates).

Actually, I'm not really deeply troubled and you shouldn't be either. I understand that Clinton is engaging in political spin, although it is very disingenuous to say Obama's plan "leaves out 15 million" when that is a high side estimate of how many people might choose to opt out. (Someone saying "no thanks, I think I'll take my chances" is very different than people being told "sorry, no insurance for you." Clinton implies that Obama's plan does the latter when it does not).

But Clinton is just putting the worst possible spin on Obama's plan in order to magnify the difference. Instead, she should be defending the advantages of mandates. Obama is also accentuating the difference, although he actually is talking about the disadvantages of mandates.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
11. Obama is lying a lot about his health plan, very disturbing
He has the opportunity to improve his plan to match Clinton's if he wishes but he only lies and obfuscates instead.

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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I don't WANT mandated health insurance.
I want universal health care--single payer--cradle to grave with dental included.

Mandating that everyone WILL buy health insurance is not the way to get there. What that does is it forces more profit for the insurance companies, and THEY are a part of the problem.


Laura
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Then you won't get universal health care
Universal health care is mandated health care. It only works if everyone is covered.

Its been proven and stated many times that letting people go without health insurance until they get sick dooms any health care plan.

Both Clinton and Obama's plan allow employers and people to buy from government insurance or private insurance. The difference is one is economically sustainable and covers everyone, the other doesn't.

Do you have health coverage now? Is it provided by your employer? If so, you will prefer Clinton's plan.

Compare them. Health care reform is too important to leave to fads and smear campaigns.



http://www.health08.org/sidebyside_results.cfm?c=11&c=16
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. oops... I forgot...
the ignore function!!
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. Obama calls his plan universal health care which it definitely is not!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. Wow. Welcome to the reason to not vote for HIllary
You SHOULD be troubled because that is exactly what the Republicans are going to say about her mandates and that's the exact reason she won't get elected. It's what some people have been trying to say for YEARS.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. They'll attack both Obama's and Hillary's health care plan.
But I really don't care if they attack Obama's because it wouldn't work anyway.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. His isn't a mandate
He can at least argue that it isn't socialized medicine because there's no mandate attached to it. His plan would absolutely work, I've got subsidized health insurance right now. Mass hasn't provided a big enough subsidy because they're trying to get too many people into the system all at once. You put the money into the subsidies, which is what Obama proposes, you'll have people flocking to sign up for health insurance.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Did you just say it would work because it's what you have right now?
20-30% will remain uninsured. That will guarantee costs like we have now.
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