Dad chases nude boy from daughter's room with pipe

[npk]

DELTONA, Fla. — An angry Deltona father whacked his teenage daughter's boyfriend with a metal pipe after finding the boy naked in his daughter's room. Authorities say the father, 45, didn't even know his daughter had a boyfriend or that the youngster had been sneaking into the home for more than a year.

When he heard noises coming from his daughter's bedroom Thursday morning and saw a stranger standing naked on the girl's bed, he swung a metal pipe. He then chased the teen out the front door and called police.

The boy was taken to the hospital where doctors closed a head wound with staples.

The father was charged with aggravated battery on a child and bonded out on $10,000.

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/Feature_Stories/ODD_Angry_Dad.html

Ok I have a question. Wouldn't the father have a legal right to protect his family, i.e. his daughter, if he encountered a strange person in his house, naked, and in the bed of his daughter. I mean speaking strictly from a legal stand point. I mean DU fathers what would you do in this situation.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. She invited him into the house.. Maybe that affects the situation?

[architect359]

8. Doesn't answer the question though, does it? n/t

[npk]

Yeah but depending on her age

Which the article doesn't provide us, a person under the age of 18, in most states, doesn't have the right to give permission to anybody to enter their parents home. She would have needed at least one of her parents permission before inviting the boyfriend over.

[tabasco]

62. Say what?

Got a link for that law or case?

[npk]

76. I don't have a link, but in my state, Georgia

A minor, or anyone under the age of 18, is not considered to have rights to property, unless that individual is a self emancipated minor as declared by the courts. The child or minor may not give consent to enter upon the property or curtiledge of any property that he or she resides at unless permission is given by the minors parent or guardian.

That is not verbatim but close enough from my law book. If I had a scanner I would scan it but I don't. I worked as a legal aide for a law firm and still have my criminal code handbook.

[tabasco]

82. That is true only if the parent previously has told the person not to

come on the property.

(c) For the purposes of subsection (b) of this Code
section, permission to enter or invitation to enter given
by a minor who is or is not present on or in the property
of the minor's parent or guardian is not sufficient to
allow lawful entry of another person upon the land,
premises, vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft
owned or rightfully occupied by such minor's parent or
guardian if such parent or guardian has previously given
notice that such entry is forbidden or notice to depart.

:hi:

[Buzz Clik]

2. Swingers of pipe have no such rights. However, if he had shot the kid stone cold dead, it's all good

[Anexio]

11. ///

Thats funny!

Thanks!

[io-solip]

3. He smacked the wrong head.

:D

[bluerum]

4. Whacking somone on the head with a pipe - no questions asked. Right.

[Shakespeare]

70. If a naked male is standing in your child's room, I don't think you ask a lot of questions.

The daughter has a lot of explaining to do, but I don't blame the father one BIT for his actions.

[madeline_con]

5. I guess you're supposed to know the guy's age.

Seriously, this is a stickler. It could just as easily have been a rapist, for all Dad knew. :shrug:

[lapfog_1]

9. Depends on what was said and by whom.

If any communication happened before or while the dad was attacking.

[lapfog_1]

6. No, he was invited in by the daughter.

That makes him an invited guest, not a stranger.

Now all that matters is whether the dad was made aware of his status before striking the young man. A simple "no dad... he's my boyfriend" or similar is all that is needed to nullify the defense "protecting my family".

[Divernan]

7. As a DU mother/lawyer, I would advise the father to plead he thought dtr. being attacked by rapist.

Story says the guy was a stranger. The father did call the police.

Typical lousy reporting - story doesn't give ages of dtr. or boyfriend. We could be looking at statutory rape charges.

[Skittles]

13. I hear you on that "typical lousy reporting" complaint

is it me or is it getting worse and worse? I think we are now getting articles from people who grew up on sound bites. :thumbsdown:

[Buzz Clik]

50. Could be the father was 55, the daughter 32, and the naked kid her 14-year-old high school student.

Statutory rapes charges, indeed.

(we have no details, so we know nothing.)

[rug]

55. From the linked article, the daughter is 15.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

10. I'm wondering, what did the daughter have to say about all this?

And (at the risk of sounding like I'm some kind of Bible-banging whacko freak Repugnican), why are girls today so frikkin' willing to spread their legs? They need to stop that bs.

[bigwillq]

12. Kids are going to have sex

At least most will. Nothing in the past or in the future is really going to stop that from happening. We just can hope they are safe from both disease and unplanned pregnancy.

[npk]

16. I can think of one thing that could stop teenagers having sex

But it is extremely barbaric, and very painful.

[slackmaster]

68. What, you mean marrying them?

:argh:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

20. Yeah, if they're allowed to be alone and know they won't be punished for it...

I kinda see it like all these girls jumping on some public dildo. And all this pretend-bisexuality bs. I guess it's the society. And hey, the Bible-bangers are often the WORST of all. They're the #1 deviants.

[Withywindle]

14. Today?

I was sexually active as a teenager almost 25 years ago. Why? Because I **enjoyed** it, and when you're a teenager, that's the only reason you need. Girls aren't as different from boys in that regard as you seem to want to think.

Thankfully, I had saner parents who didn't think violence was an answer.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

26. Hey, we all enjoy all kinds of things. Some people enjoy drugs...

... and they say kids of 12 already have sexual feelings. But there has to be a line drawn somewhere. SOMEWHERE. Heck, I say draw the line anywhere.

[Withywindle]

28. Yes, I enjoyed drugs too.

Went through quite the doper phase with all kinds of things, then got bored with it and moved on.

Still enjoy sex though. Have had it with lots of people, over the decades. I've always been willing to experiment. No regrets at all about any of it.

What is your problem with that, exactly?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

30. As a child? nt

[Withywindle]

31. As a teenager.

That's what we're talking about here, right?

They're not the same thing.

[a la izquierda]

15. What are you a nun? Asexual? An alien?

That comment is moronic. I'm 30. Girls "spreading their legs" has been going on since time began. Gimme a break. It happened 15 years ago when I was a teenager, and I'm sure 15 years before that, and so on. Give women a little credit to own their sexuality.

Give me a small fucking break.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

23. No. I just think it's majorly f****d up.

There's no reward in spreading your legs through life as if you were an inflatable doll for the world at large. Sorry, but one doesn't have to be a total ho to be a feminist, a free woman, and a sexually free person.

[a la izquierda]

32. Ain't a ho, and I don't spread my legs to be a...

feminist. I had sex with whomever the fuck i chose to prior to my wedding date and i'd have been god-damned if my absent dad, or anyone else, would have a say about it then, or now. God, continue the oppression of women.
I wasn't a ho then, and as a married woman, I am sure as hell not one now. Let women own their bodies without making them the double standard THAT MEN HAVE MADE THEM out to be. Men can fuck whomever they choose, it's their "conquest" or whatever. Women are sluts when they do that. It's BS and it's wrong. You continue that double standard.

[Withywindle]

33. Now, now, you know it's ladies' jobs to keep our legs closed.

Otherwise society will go to ruin and...geez...now that I think about...


how would we pee?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

41. If you're on your own, that's your problem. People on their own do what they like....

.. and if they mess up, it's also their problem. However, under my roof as if she were turning tricks there? Nope. She'll be preparing and serving food the homeless every weekend first. Or she can move out. That's always an option.

[a la izquierda]

60. Turning tricks? Come on...

she's a teenage girl with a boyfriend she'd been with for some time. I understand not doing it under her parents roof, absolutely. I didn't do that stuff in my mom's house...it's certainly disrespectful to your parents.

But don't imply she's a whore.
I'm done arguing with you. You must have skipped being the teenager part and went right to being a ridiculous, overbearing adult.

And onto ignore you go.

[seabeyond]

66. cause really where is the harm, fuckin three guys in a month, preg, not knowing who the fuck the

father is. waiting to have the baby at 16, all three guys waiting to see if it is theirs. choses one to marry she thinks will best provide and now a year into marriage and raising a baby deciding the paternal father would best provide and saying fuck you to the guy that has been working his ass off to provide and take care of baby that isnt his

you are right

what the fuck

whatever one wants to do is their fuckin right and stay out of it.....

as my niece is fuckin up a lot of others life,

she gets what she wants

[Buzz Clik]

52. The girl in the story has been seeing this kid for a year. She's hardly a whore.

Damn. Is this DU or Fundie Chat?

[Bluebear]

19. "OK, Ma I *know* you're running for Vice-President, what--EVER!"

OK sorry :spank:

[TXDemGal]

21. LOL! Thanks for the laff n/t

[Sarah Ibarruri]

24. No, I said Bible-bangers are often the #1 deviants. nt

[ThoughtCriminal]

17. My strategy was to grow thorny plants outside her window

OK, that didn't really work, but at least once it was pretty funny.

[Newshues]

18. cops dumb

Contreres told deputies a similar account to Colon's. He said Colon came into the room and started swinging at him with the metal pipe. He jumped out of the bed and began running through the home to get away from Colon. Once outside, he jumped on his bike and went home. His sister later took him to the hospital, deputies said.

Contreres' father wasn't even sure he wanted to press charges against the girl's dad.

My son comes home from the same situation with his had split open from a pipe I'll count him, and myself, lucky it wasn't a bullet and call it good.

If I found someone in my daughter's room at 4am and I had no idea who they were, ya, swing first ask questions later.

A half decent lawyer will have the case dismissed pretty quickly. Why? Because the father stopped as soon as the "perceived threat" left the house.

Of course, I'm just arm chair lawyering from a couple thousand miles away....

[greguganus]

57. The dad's name is 'Colon'? He could be related to Sarah Palin. n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

22. On it's face it seems like he'll get off scot free.

All he has to say is that he thought his daughter was being raped.

[sakabatou]

25. You know...

You'd only hear about this in either Florida or Germany.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

27. Did you all see what the article said?.....

"didn't even know his daughter had a boyfriend or that the youngster had been sneaking into the home for more than a year."

If it were my daughter, she could say goodbye to her cell phone, goodbye to her computer, goodbye to her allowance and hello to being taken by me to go help serve the homeless. Serious.

[Luminous Animal]

43. Helloooo, teenage pregancy!

Serve the homeless? Would that be penance? "Bless me for I have sinned. I am a 'ho, here is your gruel."

My daughter learned to serve the homeless not as punishment but as an act of compassion to fellow human beings. And I am an atheist.

[Unvanguard]

59. We don't know much else about the circumstances.

If I were in that daughter's place and had a father who would smash my boyfriend's head with a pipe, I wouldn't tell him, either....

[angrycarpenter]

29. I can see the man being mad

But a pipe is a deadly weapon. swinging it at a human skull is attempted murder.

[mrs_p]

34. he was charged with battery of a child

so i think the boyfriend must have been a minor. legally speaking, i can't see how a father gets to beat his child's friend unless it was in defense of himself, his family, or his daughter. i can't see that he has any legal standing for beating up a boyfriend just b/c he is having sex with his daughter. but, i'm not a lawyer (nor a father)...

[MrSlayer]

35. I see nothing wrong with this.

Naked stranger in his house? The kid's lucky this guy didn't shoot him.

[Unvanguard]

61. So's the father, because that would be murder.

Attacking an unarmed stranger who has given no indication of any threat? Yeah, that's pretty criminal. And very wrong.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

80. Sorry you are just wrong.

You have no knowledge to decide whether or not he was a threat.

[lutherj]

36. Unnecessary use of force. The boy posed no threat to anyone. If I we're in the old

man's shoes I wouldn't go swinging a metal pipe, that's for sure. But then I'm pretty liberal about sex. I've know a number of parents who allowed their kids to have girlfriends or boyfriends over for the night. Don't have a problem with it.

[Withywindle]

37. My parents did.

Their thinking was, "better that than have her run around with teenage boy drivers." They were more worried about me getting killed than getting laid. Go figure. :shrug:

I never felt I *had* to hide much of anything from them. So I came out OK. It made a big difference, IMO.

[Shakespeare]

72. The father had NO IDEA she even had a boyfriend.

All he knew was there was a naked male standing in his daughter's room. I'd have done the same thing, only I'd have kept swinging.

[Barack_America]

38. We don't know what was said...

Whether the boy or the daughter identified him as a boyfriend before the attack.

[orleans]

39. why was dad going into daughters room with a metal pipe?

why was naked boyfriend standing on bed?

(reminds me of the movie parenthood)

[npk]

40. You know I just thought about that

That is strange that he would run into his daughters room with a pipe, I mean that sounds like he thought about it before hand. Most people, if they suspected something, would have just walked into the room, stood their for a minute and waited to see exactly what was going on. Then go and get the pipe.

[ContraBass Black]

42. Perhaps it depends on the character and volume of the "noises."

[Supply Side Jesus]

63. yup!!....He knew his daughter was getting stuffed

that's exactly why he grabbed the pipe.
He knew what he was doing.
PC found, effect arrest.

[bean fidhleir]

44. A scene almost straight out of Back To The Future II

I'd say the father should never even have been charged. The evidence he had was that there was a rapist in his daughter's bedroom. On the other hand, the victim shouldn't be charged with anything either, since he was there with the daughter's knowledge and no criminal intent.

[tomreedtoon]

45. The dad chased the boy with "pipe"...

...so he was turned on by a naked boy?

I can't believe, in this place, that I'm the first person to make that kind of connection. Do you have to see a Republican tapping his feet in a men's room stall before you recognize the obvious?

[MrScorpio]

46. Looks like he wasn't the only one laying pipe

[Supply Side Jesus]

64. ROFL!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Codeine]

47. Sounds solid to me.

If I walked into my kid's room and saw a naked stranger standing on the bed I'd bust his head open too. The dad didn't know who he was, and he stopped as soon as the perceived threat was eliminated.

Open and shut case.

[moriah]

48. As my coworker said "The boy would be dead."

Not a good idea to risk an irate father by being a naked stranger in his daughter's room at night.

[TexasObserver]

49. Hmmm. Did the father get mad about daughter doing the nasty?

It seems far more likely that the father simply lost his shit and went after the boy who was bouncing up and down on his daughter, than that he went after someone he thought was raping his daughter.

Of course, he will claim that he was simply acting out of defense for his daughter and thought she was being attacked, and he will probably be able to convince some jurors to have reasonable doubt. It's difficult to assemble a jury that doesn't include a few of the "he's lucky it wasn't me, cuz I'd a killed him myself" members on it. That's the guy who will LIE about his prejudices just to get on the jury and make his statement.

If the father gets a competent attorney, he walks this case, mainly because the kid was not seriously injured. If the kid were murdered, whole different case when it comes to defensibility.

[Buzz Clik]

51. It had to happen! This girl was simply emulating Bristol Palin.

How's my knuckledragger imitation?

[HamdenRice]

53. All jokes aside, here is a serious answer: father is probably guilty of assault

You are referring to the father's right of self defense against rape and/or burglary.

The problem with using this defense in this case is that the law judges self defense using a "reasonableness" standard. "Reasonable" usually means would the average, reasonable person have done the same thing in the same situation? If so, then the defense will work. Even if the father's judgment actually was factually wrong (not burglar, but daughter's lover), it was reasonable.

So the question is, would the average reasonable person having a teen-aged daughter, upon waking up and seeing a naked guy coming out of his daughter's room think, "my daughter has let some guy in the house to screw her" or "a rapist/burglar is coming out of my daughter's room"?

While I realize the latter is certainly a possible thought, most people would probably think the former, I think, especially because the guy was stark naked. Burglar/rapists generally don't walk around the house naked.

On the other hand, it's up to the trier of fact, and I wouldn't be surprised if a conservative jury acquits the father.

[dysfunctional press]

54. the daughter is obviously in need of some abstinence counseling...

has her minister been called in yet? :shrug:

[ToddRodd]

56. HEY! That sounds like Sarah's husband Todd Palin!!!!!

[Unvanguard]

58. No, he wouldn't, not unless it was actually in direct self-defense or defense of others

which in this case it fairly obviously wasn't.

And thank God for that.

[aikoaiko]

65. naked stranger + underage daughters bedroom = justifiable use of force

I'm surprised he was arrested, but there may be more damning facts that are not reported in the article.

[Unvanguard]

67. Um... why? n/t

[aikoaiko]

71. benefit of the doubt that a crime was occurring against his daughter

Its reasonable.

[mudesi]

73. You're an idiot

[aikoaiko]

75. Thats not a surprising comment coming from someone like you.

[Unvanguard]

77. It is not reasonable in the slightest.

Hell, you can't even attack an actual trespasser or burglar if he or she presents no direct threat. The boy was unarmed and committing no violent act of any sort--he did not present any threat. The father's use of force was neither necessary nor proportionate.

[Tesha]

79. Actually, in some states in our fine country, you can kill an intruder merely for intruding.

We're a highly enlightened country.

Tesha

[Unvanguard]

88. Care to source that? n/t

[Tesha]

91. Your citation was provided below re: Florida. (NT)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

81. Sorry wrong again.

In Florida you can shoot them without asking a single question. How was the father supposed to know that the man standing naked on his daughters bed hadn't raped her, strangled her or was attempting to do either?

David

[Unvanguard]

87. Um, the burden of proof is on him, not on the stranger

and while you may possibly be able to shoot an intruder without asking a single question if you have some reasonable basis for ascertaining them to be a threat, I'm fairly sure you cannot shoot an intruder in any state merely for intruding.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

89. Castle Doctrine

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0776/SEC013.HTM

The 2008 Florida Statutes

Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE View Entire Chapter

776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.--

(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:

(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person's will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and

(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.


There are disqualifiers but posting them would break the rules. I don't think any would apply to this case, depending on what the father thought was happening. Florida also has a Stand Your Ground Law which says you have no duty to retreat in these cases.

David

[Unvanguard]

92. The force still has to be "necessary" though

which hardly seems to be a present element here.

Fair enough, though. Should have known better than to trust in the essential sanity of US state law.

[Tesha]

78. But you're always a big fan of a violent response, preferably with a gun. (NT)

[aikoaiko]

83. I'm a big fan of people being able to defend themselves or loved ones. You?

In an ambiguous situation, I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the father/homeowner.

[Tesha]

84. And you, as usual, would be wrong.

It would turn out that you had bashed your daughter's boyfriend's
head in, leading to a likely serious problem with your relationship
with your daughter and possibly-tragic legal consequences for you.

But at least one more violent American would have been taken
off the street for a while, so the news wouldn't be all bad, ehh?

Tesha

[aikoaiko]

85. Tesha, you must be confused, I'm not the person in the article.

I probably would have been a little more circumspect than this father, but if the father thought a criminal was in his daughter's bedroom then I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt. Now if it is the testimony of the daughter that she was saying "Stop, he's my boyfriend" then the situation is a little different.

[Tesha]

86. I understood that you aren't the person in the article.

But you're sympathizing with his actions and have, in the past,
indicated your proclivities WRT guns. You'd probably have *SHOT*
the poor boy!

Tesha

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

90. That would have stopped him from testifying.

[LWolf]

69. It depends, I guess,

on whether or not the boy presented a physical threat, and what Dad thought was going on.

I can see it if Dad thought he was interrupting a rape. If he suspected underage sex, or statuatory rape, restraint and police, or just kicking the kid out of the house, should have sufficed.

Was it punishment, or defense?

[saltpoint]

74. I'm guessing there are Parent-Child Relational difficulties afoot in the

household long prior to the daughter's decision to receive paramours.