Judge: Parents can't teach pagan beliefs

[hippiechick]

Unfucking believeable !! :mad:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050526/NEWS01/505260481

Judge: Parents can't teach pagan beliefs
Father appeals order in divorce decree that prevents couple from exposing son to Wicca.

By Kevin Corcoran
[e-mail]

An Indianapolis father is appealing a Marion County judge's unusual order that prohibits him and his ex-wife from exposing their child to "non-mainstream religious beliefs and rituals." The parents practice Wicca, a contemporary pagan religion that emphasizes a balance in nature and reverence for the earth.

Cale J. Bradford, chief judge of the Marion Superior Court, kept the unusual provision in the couple's divorce decree last year over their fierce objections, court records show. The order does not define a mainstream religion. Bradford refused to remove the provision after the 9-year-old boy's outraged parents, Thomas E. Jones Jr. and his ex-wife, Tammie U. Bristol, protested last fall.

Through a court spokeswoman, Bradford said Wednesday he could not discuss the pending legal dispute.
The parents' Wiccan beliefs came to Bradford's attention in a confidential report prepared by the Domestic Relations Counseling Bureau, which provides recommendations to the court on child custody and visitation rights. Jones' son attends a local Catholic school.

more ...

[Kipling]

1. I wonder what else is "non-mainstream"

Liberals. Blacks. Gays. Jews.

[Shoeempress]

3. So you've been to Indiana.

[blogbear]

11. Welcome to DU..One way to consider how mainstream the 'state' of

Indiana is would be to consider that nearly all Indians (for which Indiana was named) were forceably removed from the area..Only lip service is paid to the word diversity in Indiana..Things have been this way in the mental 'state' of Indiana since prior to 1816..

[baldguy]

2. This is too outrageous for words.

:wow:

[no_hypocrisy]

4. This is so over-the-top. You don't think this country is going towards a

theocracy yet? Here's your evidence.

This is not a case of a custodial parent refusing to respect the non-custodial parent's wish to give religious education that differs. This is THE STATE through its courts, though while not mandating that this child be reared as a Catholic, has compelled this child to be insulated from one particular religion, one that BOTH PARENTS endorse, with the penalty of law for its violation.

Free Exercise Clause within the First Amendment. Plain and clear.

Not only should this judgment be overturned, the judge should be impeached over overreaching.

[Inland]

10. That's what I was looking for, a dispute between parents.

When I saw that both parents agreed, I was pretty well floored.

Thehe judge feels that he gets to veto religions brought on by the parents. Unprecendented.

[Solly Mack]

5. That judge should be thrown off the bench

Course,instead, he'll be selected by Bush soon.

And the service worker who wrote that idiotic report should be fired.

[puddycat]

15. the whole field of psych & social work is being used against people

It is a dangerous field of practice to come up against because its like religion--no science, just subjective notions and a great deal of unearned power. This field is very easily used against victims, minorities, any one person or group without power--and this is something the left is finding out far too late! (i.e. I do believe the left embraced psychology at one point as perhaps an alternative to some uses of religion--counseling people, guiding lives--but the whole field is so manipulative and based on fake foundations that it quickly becomes a tool for ill)

[Tux]

32. As a holder of a psych degree

I agree. They tried to manipulate me into being their grad student and when I moved they refused to give me letters of recommendation. here is another reason: http://www.apa.org/books/4316036.html

Faith based communism is bad but faith based therapy? Too far. Psych was about the experiments, data, and stats when I got my degree. A couple years later, it's all about politics and control. Can anyone recommend a good field for a person with math learning disorder? I need to hide this embarassing degree.

[Inland]

25. Appointed by Bush or given a medal, one of the two. nt

[ET Awful]

6. It's an illegal order that should be referred to a higher court ASAP

There is no legal premise for an order like that, and any frail law upon which they try to base it would be an unconstitutional law that could not stand up under legitimate judicial scrutiny.

The judge needs to be removed from the bench.

[rodeodance]

7. this is what an example of 'activist' judge is.

....."This was done without either of us requesting it and at the judge's whim," said Jones, who has organized Pagan Pride Day events in Indianapolis. "It is upsetting to our son that he cannot celebrate holidays with us, including Yule, which is winter solstice, and Ostara, which is the spring equinox."

The ICLU and Jones assert the judge's order tramples on the parents' constitutional right to expose their son to a religion of their choice. Both say the court failed to explain how exposing the boy to Wicca's beliefs and practices would harm him.

Bristol is not involved in the appeal and could not be reached for comment. She and Jones have joint custody, and the boy lives with the father on the Northside.

Jones and the ICLU also argue the order is so vague that it could lead to Jones being found in contempt and losing custody of his son.
..

[megatherium]

17. Ironically, everyone in Indiana celebrates Yule and Ostara with

great enthusiasm, except they still call these holidays Christmas and Easter. But all the pagan elements are there: the tree, the lights, even lots of colored eggs hanging from trees in the front yard. But Indianans seem to be big on lawn art in general.

[sam sarrha]

8. the plains Indians couldnt practace thir religion at all till about 1980

so what else is new..??

[DIKB]

9. THIS is why we need to screen judicial life appointees

Some of these fanatics take the law into their hands according to their beliefs and not according to the law. How DARE THEY !!!!!!

[ClintonTyree]

12. Court ordered religion...............

great country, bushamerika. You WILL believe as we want you to believe. :mad:

[etherealtruth]

13. Would the parents be able to select "NO religion?" ....

...or would the judge find that too confusing also? The role of parents IS to try to provide a moral/spiritual compass, and to do so as THEY see fit.

Edited for clarity

[hlthe2b]

14. IS This one of those non-lawyer elected judges? Or a

Federalist society graduate?

Appeals courts should take care of this, but they should take this idiot judge to task.

[LiberalEsto]

16. What if they were atheists? Is that acceptable to the court?

Or Unitarian Universalists?

This is the most disgusting, fascist meddling with religious freedom that I have ever read about in my life.

[Nordmadr]

18. How can that even be possible? Clear violation of religous

freedom.

Olaf

[cestpaspossible]

31. Welcome to Family Court

Constitution? huh?

[xmas74]

19. They should appeal this order.

I am a parent. It is my job to teach my daughter my moral and spiritual beliefs. My beliefs are Christian but the border more towards a spiritual belief instead of a mainstream religious belief (meaning I question how most mainstream religions teach Christianity so I tend to focus on the message instead of the religion). The judge has no right to enforce what religion that child will be taught or even how it will be taught.
It sounds like something the ACLU should deal with.

[Triana]

20. This is rediculous.

A judge should not be able to 'overrule' the wishes of the parents in this case. Parents should be able to raise (or allow) their kids to whatever religion they choose without an arrogant judge imposing on them. Religion is a personal choice - the judge has no damned business with his big nose in it.

[Coexist]

21. darn activist judges.... eom

[mopinko]

22. the left's next wave- watching these judges

we really need to start watching these judges, and have a concerted effort to see that these nutjobs are removed from the bench wherever possible. even when we get the executive and legislative branches back from the oligarchy, these idiots will need to be weeded out. it will be the work of a lifetime.

[hvn_nbr_2]

23. There was a time when this was so obviously unconstitutional...

that there would be no doubt that it would be thrown out on appeal. Now, that judge is probably on the fast track to the Supreme Court. In fact, this ruling was probably a campaign stunt by him.

[Arugula Latte]

24. Raping and pillaging Earth in the name of Christianity: OKAY

Reverence and respect for Nature: NOT OKAY.

Fucking nutjobs.

[IndianaGreen]

26. Leave a message for Judge Bradford at [phone]

That's the number listed on the Court's website. When you call, you will hear a recorded message saying that they have changed the menu options. The options include other courts!

You will have to press 0 to speak to a real human, and wait on the line for a clerk to come on.

Court: Civil Division 1
Judge: Cale Bradford
Room: W-407
Location: 4th Floor West Wing
Phone: [phone]

I called earlier today. The woman that answered the phone at Civil Court 1 (Judge Bradford's court) was quite shocked when I told her that they were on the internet on account of the judge.

[hippiechick]

27. IG, you rock !

Way to make 'em shake in their boots !! :hi:

[IndianaGreen]

28. I feel sorry for the clerk

She clearly had no idea what the hell I was saying about Judge Bradford. Courts handle hundreds of cases a month.

[hippiechick]

29. I'm sure once they get 50-100 calls, she'll know ...

:) Thanks for the number !

[IndianaGreen]

30. You are welcome!

Let's see how long we have to wait until we get the "out of order" message.